Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Who's in disagreement with that? If you think anti-Osas is in disagreement with that explain how.
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Once Saved Always Saved
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Here's the damnation and burning of unfruitful 'land', and because it is unfruitful land.....
7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. Hebrews 6:7-9
Notice vs. 9 where that unfruitfulness and being burned in the end is contrasted with 'better things', things that have to do with salvation as opposed to the things that have to do with not being saved. 9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. Hebrews 6:7-9
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
This is what I was talking about earlier. I think the point he is trying to stress is the believer will be saved, and saved means 'forever saved', so this verse is proving that Osas is true.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No, it's called staying within the boundaries of what Jesus actually said. He said BELIEVERS have eternal life and will never come into condemnation. If you stop believing, assuming that's possible, he's no longer talking about you having eternal life and never coming into condemnation. I know this is completely outside of the paradigm of thought of the modern Osaser, but I'm getting it right out of the verse without changing a single word.....
24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No, you are the one that is confused. Anti-Osas does not teach that you can not have the assurance of being saved. After all these months of discussion with you, you haven't heard a word of scripture about the assurance of the believer that I've shared with you.
This is how we know that we belong to the truth... 1 John 3:19
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The problem is many people are being taught that to continue to live in your old life in unbelief is resting in Christ. And they confuse and complicate the scriptures to defend that definition of 'resting in Christ'.
So in short, when you say “ through their flesh” you actually meant “through their human efforts and power”. And when you say “source”, you actually meant “way”. Those I understand. Thanks.
Let me put that now here. I asked “Do you believe that the law is not of faith?”
Your answer “As to the source of salvation, but not the outcome”. Which considering your clarification, would go like “ as to the way of salvation,....”.
So, we agree that the law is not the way to salvation, for the law is not of faith.
Now you contend that, even now, the law is the path or course of righteousness. I beg to disagree. For the simple reason that scriptures, in Gal. 3:21 says “For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.” And since we can understand by that that there had not been a law given which could have given life, then righteousness is not by the law or that the law is the path or course of righteousness.
If the law (10 commandments you say) then is not the path or course of righteousness, what is? Faith is. Of course needless to say, in God.
I guess there is no need of this anymore because you have made clarification already about “source” and “through their flesh”.
Tong
R3141
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Only in your modern more popular version of Osas. The original Osas did not teach that you can sin all you want and even go back to unbelief and you remain saved/born again. It taught that if you remain in your sin and appear to go back to unbelief you were never saved/born again to begin with. It NEVER defended some kind of right by virtue of grace to live in your old life of sin and unbelief and still be saved. That is a modern invention. And, IMO, is the teaching through which the church is overcome and destroyed in these end times according to prophecy.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
I already cited Hebrews 3 which says the heart can "become hardened" by the deceitfulness of sin--and the very next verse says the warning is addressed to people who have begun to partake of Christ. The "wayside" is hard ground that cannot receive the seed, so it sits on top and the birds come and take it. The same Hebrews 3 says not to harden your heart when God speaks--as the Israelites, who were God's People (as we are God's People today), did, or else, just as happened to them, we will not inherit the promise.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I honestly don't think John was a legalist......
Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God... 1 John 3:10
@GracePeace
I think you have to consider the NT scriptures regarding that OT scriptures. Paul in Romans 9 will shed light on that. He tells us who are the children of God.
@Pearl
While the point is made, that those born from above could never be turned to be born from below, to say that even denying Christ is no matter, I’d say defeats the point rather than supports it. For those who are born from above, those born of God, would ever deny Christ. At least in my view, whoever denies Christ isn’t a child of God, for the child of God have the Holy Spirit. And scriptures says “no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. So, one who profess to be a child of God who later will deny Jesus Christ only shows that he is not a child of God.
Tong
R3143
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The choir knows all about the blood of Christ. What the church needs to learn is that the grace of God in Christ, if you really have it, will have the consequence of transforming you into a person who lives righteously, and that not living righteously is the sign that you do not have the grace of God in Christ that you claim you have.
That goes both ways. But that is a given between two opposing views, so I don’t bother to complain about it.
<<<When I said 'being saved' you hear 'getting saved' when what I meant was 'being a saved person'.>>>
That is your presumption.
If you mean to say “being a saved person” then all you have to do is say that.
<<<The parable is about bringing the word of God to fruition and being a saved person.>>>
Not quite.
As I pointed out, the parable is about the word of God (seed) and it bearing fruit, not really about the person.
Tong
R3144
<<<our salvation corresponds to the salvation of the Jews from Egypt (they too were "saved by the blood of the lamb"), not to "inheriting the promise".>>>
There is a parallel, but only that. The promises are not the same. The NT speaks of better promises.
Tong
R3145
<<<It's all about in what kinds of soil that fruitfulness will or will not happen in. The flaw is not in the word of God, as you surely must agree. The flaw is the kind of soil it is sown on.>>>
I agree. However, the parable was not given to make that point. The parable was given to make a point concerning the seed, the word of God. It was not really given to make a point about the soil nor of the sower.
What are the purpose of the parables? What are they about? Are they about how one gets to be saved or what?
Tong
R3146
@Tong
So in short, when you say “ through their flesh” you actually meant “through their human efforts and power”. And when you say “source”, you actually meant “way”. Those I understand. Thanks.
Basically, and I can't say everything I do not mean...or do mean.....
Let me put that now here. I asked “Do you believe that the law is not of faith?”
Your answer “As to the source of salvation, but not the outcome”. Which considering your clarification, would go like “ as to the way of salvation,....”.
So, we agree that the law is not the way to salvation, for the law is not of faith.
It's not the source
Now you contend that, even now, the law is the path or course of righteousness. I beg to disagree. For the simple reason that scriptures, in Gal. 3:21 says “For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.” And since we can understand by that that there had not been a law given which could have given life, then righteousness is not by the law or that the law is the path or course of righteousness.
You shouldn't disagree seeing it's talking about the source "by"
If the law (10 commandments you say) then is not the path or course of righteousness, what is? Faith is. Of course needless to say, in God.
Yes
I guess there is no need of this anymore because you have made clarification already about “source” and “through their flesh”.
Key is a new Spirit and heart
Recall what Jesus says first make the inside of the cup clean and the outside will be....
Or
Matthew 12:33
Make the tree good and its fruit will be
Recall dirty and clean water cannot come out the same fountain
James 3:11
"Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?"
Roman's 3:31Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.
So in short, when you say “ through their flesh” you actually meant “through their human efforts and power”. And when you say “source”, you actually meant “way”. Those I understand. Thanks.
Basically, and I can't say everything I do not mean...or do mean.....
Let me put that now here. I asked “Do you believe that the law is not of faith?”
Your answer “As to the source of salvation, but not the outcome”. Which considering your clarification, would go like “ as to the way of salvation,....”.
So, we agree that the law is not the way to salvation, for the law is not of faith.
It's not the source
Now you contend that, even now, the law is the path or course of righteousness. I beg to disagree. For the simple reason that scriptures, in Gal. 3:21 says “For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.” And since we can understand by that that there had not been a law given which could have given life, then righteousness is not by the law or that the law is the path or course of righteousness.
You shouldn't disagree seeing it's talking about the source "by"
If the law (10 commandments you say) then is not the path or course of righteousness, what is? Faith is. Of course needless to say, in God.
Yes
I guess there is no need of this anymore because you have made clarification already about “source” and “through their flesh”.
Key is a new Spirit and heart
Recall what Jesus says first make the inside of the cup clean and the outside will be....
Or
Matthew 12:33
Make the tree good and its fruit will be
Recall dirty and clean water cannot come out the same fountain
James 3:11
"Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?"
Roman's 3:31Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.
Because in Christ
Gal 5:6
"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love."
And that is not legalism ....do's and don'ts are.....because its really about who you are becoming.... that what is being transformed on the inside will naturally show on the outside.
Legalism is trying to stop yourself from doing things, trying to do things, or even can be what one must believe or not believe as the Source of rightness but it's outcome displays an attitude of boasting, and condemning others...
One thing, I see that people do, because I did it too....Is form how you think from their box...
You say the word work, or any word that implies effort and they go directly to work base salvation.
They may not come to see how that God's love is behind works that are in Christ.
Ephesians 2:10 says: For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them
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STILL, they fell under God's wrath because they sinned--the same will happen to us if we live sinfully.
If you are referring to fleshly sins, like those sins they committed while Moses was on Mt Sinai ....God does not like Carnality , no doubt about it....
But if you REALLY want to Anger God—- refuse to Trust Him! God promised to run all of the Enemies Of the Hebrews out of the Land Of Promise. God GAVE the Hebrews the Land.....All they had to do was go in and TAKE what was already Given to them by God.They refused.Why? UNBELIEF. They would not take God at His Word.They Paid a steep price for that Lack Of Faith....
This sad story is analogous to those today that refuse to Trust God completely .....God shows in Hebrews 3 and 4 that those today that refuse to REST in the Gospel Of Grace are guilty of “ disobedience and Unbelief”—- Just like the Jews in the Wilderness .They Paid the price for their Unbelief.....God left them to essentially rot in the desert until they died off.....
Refusal to Rest in the Finished Work Of The Cross, exemplified by not Resting in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace, Given to Him by Jesus personally, and found in 1Cor15:1-4 will have you “ paying a price” also......If you ADD to the Gospel Of Grace ( Lucky Repentance, etc), That is tantamount to not Resting in it.....God will declare YOU —- just like He declared the Hebrews of Ancient Times— Guilty Of “ Disobedience and Unbelief” and you will “ Fall From Grace”.......You, like the Faithless Jews in the Sinai Desert , who rejected what God had already given to you ( a GIFT of Salvation that was to be Received— NOT Earned! ) will get to live out “ your” life in a type of “ Wilderness”......A Beggarly Life Of no Assurance, no Real Peace and no Real Joy.......
Many here need to pray to God that He show them how to REST in the Gospel Of Grace Plus NOTHING......The Refusal to do this — the INSISTENCE that the Shed Blood Of Jesus is Essential But not Adequate for Salvation is equal to UNBELIEF in the Eyes Of God .A VERY Serious charge......A large portion of the ChurchWorld is “Fallen from Grace “ and doesn’t even know it—- they don’t even know what the term means.....God Bless....
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