Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
22,820
39,116
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I mean...you dont go into a nursery and say to babies, be spotless!!

So we aim for righteousness and we struggle with it for a while until we basically say, Lord, help me! How can I pretend I am righteous when I cant even control my passions and angers and resentments?? Lord, you will have to handle this because I'm done trying and I'm returning to trusting YOU to make me what You've promised. And that's what God is looking for, a return to trust and away from our own works and attempts.

You can say be holy all you want, but if you arent talking to men who are ready to bear it, you're wasting your breath and if God calls a man righteous who trusts Him, who are you to call unclean what God calls clean? God accepts men who trust Him. He makes a place for them. He will take them into more when He deems they are ready to bear it.

It really is necessary to understand that the more God gives a man, the more God expects of him and to see that some verses are talking about righteousness and some are talking about holiness. Dont expect a man walking by trust to be exactly where you are or you will end up discouraging men who are trusting Him and do damage to the righteousness that is by trust. And you could do damage to yourself as well because if God has moved you from being led by the Spirit to walking in the Spirit, you did not GET there in any way other than trust.
But we do to believers . Look how often peter , paul , james , jude and others
warned new believers .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But we do to believers . Look how often peter , paul , james , jude and others
warned new believers .

Do you think the warnings were designed to get them to start acting holy? How does one act holy? We see enough of fake acting holy. The scriptures are for training in righteousness. A man is meant to learn righteousness, to begin to thirst after righteousness inside and to keep trusting God for it when he sees he fails sometimes. You cant learn how to be holy. The scriptures are not for training in holiness. And it's all done from start to finish by trust anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BloodBought 1953

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You can say be holy all you want, but if you arent talking to men who are ready to bear it, you're wasting your breath

Those who aren't ready to bear holiness, the law is a schoolmaster to bring them to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

So, I am not wasting my breath. Such people will understand from my preaching that they are sinners in need of the Saviour (Romans 3:20); who is able to shed abroad His love in their hearts (Romans 5:5); which love is the bond of perfectness (Colossians 3:14).

You are mixing the righteousness that is by trust with holiness. You are going to do real harm to yourself by insisting God does not accept men who trust Him.

No, I am saying that those who place their trust in Christ, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in their hearts.

If that hasn't yet happened to you, then you need to question whether you have really trusted in Christ (Philippians 2:12, 2 Peter 1:10, 2 Corinthians 13:5).

Your Thread's TITLE just made a liar out of you.
Your Thread's Title says that forgiveness is not found in Jesus's Blood, or the Cross, or by God's mercy.
Read your Thread's title, deceiver.
Your Thread's Title says that forgiveness is found by "self", by "self" keeping commandments.

You are the one, calling me a deceiver; and yet you deny the reality of indwelling sin: and therefore you have deceived yourself and the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8). I am going to keep reminding you of this every time that you call me a deceiver because a good offense is a good defense; and it is very clear to me and everyone else here that you have three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

I think that you really need to address the scriptures that I have posted, in the OP...and the logic of those scriptures.

Of course forgiveness is found in Jesus' blood; it is the only thing that has the power to cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7), to redeem us from all iniquity (Titus 2:14) and to save us from our sins (Matthew 1:21).

I have pointed out that the things that I have mentioned just above have to do with us becoming obedient children as the result of having been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

After all, the blood of Jesus doesn't only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The scriptures are not for training in holiness.

2Ti 3:16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I assume that you believe that training and instruction are two different things; I see them as being practically synonymous.

Likewise with righteousness and holiness. These are practically synonymous.

And, to separate them in your theology is a common mistake that people make; in that they take synonymous terms and attempt to make a teaching out of how they mean something different from each other.
 

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
3,409
675
113
Southwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Psa 103:12, As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
Psa 103:13, Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
Psa 103:14, For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
Psa 103:15, As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
Psa 103:16, For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
Psa 103:17, But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
Psa 103:18, To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and for ever (Hebrews 13:8).

Jhn 15:12, This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Jhn 15:13, Greater love hath no man than this,
that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Jhn 15:14, Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.


Jesus laid down His life for His friends. You are His friend, if you do what He commands.

What does He command; but that we love one another?

Rom 13:8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9, For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We are to "love thy neighbor as thyself"; and this consists of obeying God's commandments:

1Jo 5:3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jo 1:6, And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.


The God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament are one and the same God. Jesus is the same YHWH. (Hebrews 13:8).

So, the commandments in the Old Covenant, as moral tenets which we are to follow, are still valid. They are the commandments of the LORD (Jesus).

Of course, commandments as concerning animal sacrifices are fulfilled in that Jesus died on the Cross as the fulfillment of those types. However, moral tenets are binding when it comes to what we read in the Old Testament. If we love our neighbor as ourselves, we will fulfill them; we will not violate them in our behaviour.

And I will say that the scriptures above do show that forgiveness is applied to those who, as a general rule, keep the commandments of the LORD.

It is not that we are saved through law-keeping.

It is that, if we are truly born again, we are inclined towards obedience.

There is a repentance that must take place in your heart in order to become a recipient of the Lord's forgiveness.

You must become Jesus' friend; and only then has He given His life for you.

You are His friend if you obey His commandments.

Jesus is the God of the Old and New Testaments.

If you love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and your neighbor as yourself: you will fulfill the righteousness of the law in your behaviour.

You will not be violating any law if you bear the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

The venue by which we obtain this righteousness is apart from the law; nevertheless this righteousness is attested to by the law and the prophets that it is righteousness indeed (Romans 3:21).

You must obtain the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ (Galatians 3:14); and then, as you walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in you (Romans 8:4).

There is no law that will condemn your behaviour if you bear the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

So, you will not be disobedient to the commandments of the Lord if you are born again of the Holy Spirit. You will be a friend of Jesus according to the scriptures in question.
I really love this, however, I would add that the New Covenant is a Covenant of Grace with a Law of faith--hence the phrase "obedience of faith" Romans 1:5. Don't disregard receiving grace through the obedience of faith, which grace is the method of righteousness today!
 
  • Like
Reactions: stunnedbygrace

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I really love this, however, I would add that the New Covenant is a Covenant of Grace with a Law of faith--hence the phrase "obedience of faith" Romans 1:5. Don't disregard receiving grace through the obedience of faith, which grace is the method of righteousness today!
Hi.

In the kjv, Romans 1:5 speaks of "obedience to the faith"...whereas later, in Romans 16:26, "the obedience of faith" is spoken of.

Not that I am in disagreement with your statements.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GracePeace

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
3,409
675
113
Southwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't think so.
I really appreciate you bringing out that clause from Psalms, though, because, yes, I had noticed "I lay my life down for my friends... you're my friends if you do everything I tell you". So good. Thanks!
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
(cont'd from #91)

Also, the subject for me is not up for debate.

I believe that those who follow the narrow path that leads to life will adhere to the kjv and those who head down the broad path that leads to destruction will follow after watered down, modern translations that do not have the power of concise wording in the Holy Ghost.

Now I am kjv-superior in my understanding and not kjv-only.

That means that I do believe that other translations are useful.

However, where there is a dispute, I believe that the kjv is inspired and inerrant as concerning doctrine.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I really appreciate you bringing out that clause from Psalms, though, because, yes, I had noticed "I lay my life down for my friends... you're my friends if you do everything I tell you". So good. Thanks!
You're welcome.

But I think that I may have already offended you with my next statements.
 

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
3,409
675
113
Southwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
(cont'd from #91)

Also, the subject for me is not up for debate.

I believe that those who follow the narrow path that leads to life will adhere to the kjv and those who head down the broad path that leads to destruction will follow after watered down, modern translations that do not have the power of concise wording in the Holy Ghost.

Now I am kjv-superior in my understanding and not kjv-only.

That means that I do believe that other translations are useful.

However, where there is a dispute, I believe that the kjv is inspired and inerrant as concerning doctrine.
I'm not offended by your KJV-onlyism, I think it's kind of funny LOL
 

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
3,409
675
113
Southwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You're welcome.

But I think that I may have already offended you with my next statements.
Well, I don't think anyone is 100% correct--we all say some things that are correct and some things that are incorrect.
 
Last edited:

Daniel Veler

Active Member
Apr 17, 2021
485
164
43
Gulf port
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
AH! Good question!

May I distill it this way?

Are we saved only if we choose to lead lives of obedience by loving others? Or can we be saved even if we do not choose to live so, to love others?

Is that fair to say?

Much love!
Let me put it this way. When you fell in love with someone you have a great burning desire to please them. This is the love you have in your heart for them. God puts his love in our heart that we my love as he loves. This is given to us through the fruits of the Holy Spirit. This is why the apostle wrote if a man says he loves God and hates his brother the LOVE OF GOD IS NOT IN HIM.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,250
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
You are the one, calling me a deceiver; and yet you deny the reality of indwelling sin:

There is no indwelling sin, in a born again believer.
Christ has become the sin, regarding all the Born again.
The verse says..>"God has Made Him to be our sin". "made Jesus to be sin for us".

Apparently He has not become yours yet, as you claim you still have your sin.

Well, i dont have mine. Jesus has it.
So, the sin of the born again is gone.
This is why Roman 4:8 says that God does not charge you with sin.
He can't as Jesus has taken it, all.
So,
There is the "flesh" that has been crucified with Christ, that you are to understand is "dead".
You dont, and that is why you sin and confess and teach lies.

See, there is the Living Born Again Spirit, inside the body.
It this, you find God, Chrsit, and the Holy Spirit.
You do not find sin.
Your theology is not of God.