Once Saved Always Saved

GracePeace said:

I don't think I've ever used the phrase "repent from your sins to be saved".

Yes, stick with the Word--I know, it's an unspeakable heresy isn't it?

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You seem to be in that confused, “ Fallen From Grace” Crowd by the company that you keep—- Sincere Apologies if you are not....

GracePeace said:

No, actually, the Greek shows that the "this is a gift" refers to the "salvation" not the "faith"--and, even in English, "not of works" would be redundant if "faith" was what "this is a gift" referred to. OBVIOUSLY "faith" and "works" are in completely different categories, so why would it be stated that "faith is a gift, it is not of works"? No, the salvation is a grace received through faith not of works.

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Salvation is grace. Faith is grace. Both from God.

Tong
R3147

GracePeace said:

1. I noticed you didn't explain which part I "twisted", you just made an empty assertion. Go ahead and substantiate your empty claim. I'll be waiting.

2. Yes, we are "saved" by the blood of the Lamb.
Who else was "saved" by the blood of the Lamb?
The Jews.
Our salvation was typed by their deliverance from Egypt.
Our baptism was typed by their passage through the Red Sea and the Cloud.
Our communion was typed by their eating angels' food and drinking from the Rock (Christ).
STILL, they fell under God's wrath because they sinned--the same will happen to us if we live sinfully.

Culled from the teaching of Saint Paul 1 Corinthians 10.

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STILL, they fell under God's wrath because they sinned--the same will happen to us if we live sinfully.

I would emphasize that the Sin That lead to their rotting in the Wilderness was not fleshly sins like getting drunk and fornicating ,etc —- Those are bad enough but God will endure quite a bit of that kind of “weak flesh” stuff—— what REALLY infuriates God is UNBELIEF! They Lacked the FAITH to enter the “ Land Of REST”

Their is a Modern- Day Equivalent to entering the “ Land Of Rest” where God tests His People.....Do we have the Faith to REST in the Gospel as ORDERED to in Hebrews 3 and 4 ? Or do we choose to be Saved by the Blood as the Jews were in Egypt and then leave it at that? We can choose to live out a life with the “ Promises Of God Obtained” - characterized by Peace and Joy and Assurance —or we can live out a Beggarly Existence, left to “ twist in the wind” as the Jews did in “ their” Wilderness....

Theres a Big Reward awaiting those that have the Faith to REST in the Gospel —-those willing to “ Let go and Let God” ..... The Gospel is all about what a Merciful God did for Sinful, Lost Men....NOT what Sinful Men have done for God.....Resting in that Truth is what God desires .....God wants ALL of the Glory for His Son ......the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-5 is ALL about Jesus and NONE about you ! Jesus is NOT looking for “ Co- Saviors” .....Just Rest in what HE did......avoid the “ Wilderness” Of Unbelief.....
A “Wilderness “ guaranteed to be lived -out by Gospel Adders—- Those “ Fallen From Grace”......You could be Saved but pay one hell of a price for subsequent unbelief or weak faith down the road......God bless.... ....

Ferris Bueller said:

No, it's called staying within the boundaries of what Jesus actually said. He said BELIEVERS have eternal life and will never come into condemnation. If you stop believing, assuming that's possible, he's no longer talking about you having eternal life and never coming into condemnation. I know this is completely outside of the paradigm of thought of the modern Osaser, but I'm getting it right out of the verse without changing a single word.....

24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24​

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Lol.....and you talk about “Jumping through Hoops”...... I merely say “Jesus Saves. Period.” You say all the things you just said, Plus MUCH MORE in other posts....I’ll let the Readers decide who is doing the “ Hoop Jumping”....

GracePeace said:

I reject eternal security.

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Jesus is Eternal Life.
So, if you reject eternal life you are rejecting eternal security.
This means you reject Christ.
Not a good idea.

Curtis said:

Tong2020 said: ↑
Is that not a misuse of the parable of the prodigal son?

When misused, many things could come out from the parable, things that were not being taught by it. Such as that being a son doesn’t guarantee an inheritance. And it is even obvious that such is wrong in that, the son was in fact given his part of inheritance.

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Only after he came back to the father in repentance.

Before that he was dead in his sins.

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What, his inheritance? He got it before he even left home.

So, isn’t it a misuse of the parable when used to support teachings such as “being a son doesn’t guarantee an inheritance”?

If you have other passages to support that, please, by all means, cite or quote them here. For it is just not taught by the parable.

Tong
R3148

Ferris Bueller said:

Only in your modern more popular version of Osas. .

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The idea of "license to sin" which the perverted idea of OSAS, that you misunderstad, has been around since Jude and Paul resisted it.

Ferris Bueller said:

I honestly don't think John was a legalist......

Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God... 1 John 3:10​

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Have you ever watched a movie since you were born again?
Have you ever watched a SuperBowl or a World Series, or the Olympics, since you were saved?

Were you "practicing righteousness" when you were watching your last movie, or today's TV show?

So, your mouth speaks, but not from your own reality.
Now, i dont say you are backslidden because you have cable and probably Netflix, or have had it.
But i do say you need to THINK more before you post your. next one.

Ferris Bueller said:

The choir knows all about the blood of Christ. What the church needs to learn is that the grace of God in Christ, if you really have it, will have the consequence of transforming you into a person who lives righteously

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Sure, discipleship should be always, deepening.
But good works do not prove you are born again.
They only prove you are doing good works.
The Devil's own, do a lot of good works, and so do his ministers and so do his denominations, and his bibles also contain enough of the Truth to offer some Good.

Dont get stuck on Good works, as your clue to someone's faith level.
Look instead at their belief system, and do they trust in Christ to keep them saved, or not.
Do they give Christ FULL CREDIT DUE HIM for saving them and keeping them saved.
Or do they not?
You dont.
And Right there is where you'll find the heretic vs the true believer.

Ferris Bueller said:

Tong2020 said: ↑
Unfruitful believers aren’t condemned to hell because of that. Fruitfulness concerns having eternal rewards in heaven, not salvation, which the believer already was given in Christ through faith.

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Here's the damnation and burning of unfruitful 'land', and because it is unfruitful land.....

7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. Hebrews 6:7-9
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Notice vs. 9 where that unfruitfulness and being burned in the end is contrasted with 'better things', things that have to do with salvation as opposed to the things that have to do with not being saved.

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Hebrews 6:8 must be taken in the context of the point of the parable. What is burned are what have grown in the land, those of thorns and thistles, not the land.

I just remembered, I already addressed this same argument of yours in post #4440

Tong
R3149

Ferris Bueller said:

No, it's called staying within the boundaries of what Jesus actually said. He said BELIEVERS have eternal life and will never come into condemnation. If you stop believing, assuming that's possible, he's no longer talking about you having eternal life and never coming into condemnation. I know this is completely outside of the paradigm of thought of the modern Osaser, but I'm getting it right out of the verse without changing a single word.....

24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24​

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<<<If you stop believing, assuming that's possible,....>>>

Is it or is it not?

Tong
R3150

Ferris Bueller said:

Blood Bought 1953 said: ↑
.. or maybe He was just Confused and went too far with His Promise.....God forbid anybody would feel Assured in regard to their Salvation.....God wants to “ keep us guessing”

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No, you are the one that is confused. Anti-Osas does not teach that you can not have the assurance of being saved. After all these months of discussion with you, you haven't heard a word of scripture about the assurance of the believer that I've shared with you.

This is how we know that we belong to the truth... 1 John 3:19​

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So you don’t teach that the Christian can not have the assurance of being saved. I got that.

Now that is different from teaching the truth that the true Christian actually have assurance of salvation, right?

Tong
R3151

Ferris Bueller said:

Blood Bought 1953 said: ↑
Refusal to REST in what has already been done for us at the Cross leads to all kinds of confusion and complications.

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The problem is many people are being taught that to continue to live in your old life in unbelief is resting in Christ. And they confuse and complicate the scriptures to defend that definition of 'resting in Christ'.

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Well yes that’s a problem.

But that does not take away the point of @Blood Bought 1953 in the quote.

Tong
R3152

Ferris Bueller said:

Behold said: ↑
...you were taught by a deceiver, that OSAS, is trying to prove that Grace is a license to sin.

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Only in your modern more popular version of Osas. The original Osas did not teach that you can sin all you want and even go back to unbelief and you remain saved/born again. It taught that if you remain in your sin and appear to go back to unbelief you were never saved/born again to begin with. It NEVER defended some kind of right by virtue of grace to live in your old life of sin and unbelief and still be saved. That is a modern invention. And, IMO, is the teaching through which the church is overcome and destroyed in these end times according to prophecy.

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That the true Christian have assurance of his salvation or his being saved is not compatible with the idea that he is free to live in sin or reject Jesus Christ in unbelief. In the same way that the true Christian have true faith, faith that abides and continues to the end, is not compatible with the idea that he could stop believing.

Tong
R3153

GracePeace said:

I already cited Hebrews 3 which says the heart can "become hardened" by the deceitfulness of sin--and the very next verse says the warning is addressed to people who have begun to partake of Christ. The "wayside" is hard ground that cannot receive the seed, so it sits on top and the birds come and take it. The same Hebrews 3 says not to harden your heart when God speaks--as the Israelites, who were God's People (as we are God's People today), did, or else, just as happened to them, we will not inherit the promise.

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Not if we are talking of the new heart that God had replaced the old fallen and corrupted heart with.

Tong
R3154

Tong2020 said:

Well yes that’s a problem.

But that does not take away the point of @Blood Bought 1953 in the quote.

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That IS the problem. His point leads directly to the fact that the church is being destroyed by a teaching that causes many to not rest in Christ. Instead, they are living their old lives in unbelief thinking they are saved, and so they are totally unprepared to meet Christ when he comes back. BB doesn't seem to understand that you aren't resting in Christ if you are living in rebellion of God's commands. The NT uses the Israelites to illustrate this truth for us today. We also won't enter into God's rest if we are living in rebellion to God's commands. Only those who rest from their works enter into rest Hebrews 3:18, Hebrews 4:10. Because only saved people, not continuing in their sin are at rest in God.

When you tell a person you don't have to live for Christ as a saved person, and they then don't live for Christ, you're dealing with a lost unbeliever, not a believer exercising his right under grace to sin and still be saved. That's just the hard truth about that.

Tong2020 said:

That the true Christian have assurance of his salvation or his being saved is not compatible with the idea that he is free to live in sin or reject Jesus Christ in unbelief.

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Now tell BB and Behold and HisLife.

Tong2020 said:

In the same way that the true Christian have true faith, faith that abides and continues to the end, is not compatible with the idea that he could stop believing.

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Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on the person. This is why the Osas debate exists. You're broad brushing all believers as believers who won't stop believing. When the fact is Osas is true for some believers, while it's not for others. Some want to, and will, continue to believe to the very end. Others won't. The debate won't end until Osas gives up it's fantasy that all true believers won't stop believing.

Tong2020 said:

So you don’t teach that the Christian can not have the assurance of being saved. I got that.

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What I don't say is Christians can NEVER have the assurance of being saved. The Bible says a Christian has the assurance of his salvation when he can see the Holy Spirit at work in his character.

Tong2020 said:

Now that is different from teaching the truth that the true Christian actually have assurance of salvation, right?

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True Christians can have the assurance of their salvation when they do things that show they are saved. That's what the Bible says. That is how you have assurance that you are saved. John said he wrote 1 John to tell the church that so they would not be deceived either way.