Cain and Abel were not Adam' first offspring. People read the bible like God created Adam and they fell by lunchtime. They could have been in the garden millions of years before the fall. That's how Cain was able to go to Nod. The earth was populated by then.
Cain and Abel
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
There you go with your reckless theories unsubstantiated by corroborating scripture. Sisters were not mentioned being born, but the sons were. Cain and Able were the first sons to Adam and Eve. There were no nations formed as you say. And they didn't have children while in the garden.
After the fall. That's when God started dealing with mankind. But I won't argue with you.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I see you are new to the forums. Welcome. They are great and it is nice to have some new view points. Keep an open mind, because you can learn a lot.
Since the Bible FLATLY CONTRADICTS this statement, you are off to a false start.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
How do you know? Who are you to say? Didn't God tell them be fruitful and multiply? How long were they there before sinning? An hour? Millions of years. It only starts with Cain and Abel because that's when we come in and the need for Christ. No where does scripture say Satan was a fallen angel, but you swallow that.
God expects us to use common sense in Scripture.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
It appears according to Ez. 28 that Satan deceiving Eve was his first sin and when he fell. It does not SAY that Adam and Eve had sex before the fall, only after. Nothing you have said has been mentioned anywhere in scripture so it is just an opinion.
Now pay close attention to this passage: And Adam knew [had intercourse with] Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare [bore, gave birth to] Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare [bore, gave birth to] his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. (Gen 4:1,2)
Could anything be clearer, or plainer, or more explicit that this? Yet you come on board and spout nonsense. The same with the origin of Satan.
But Cain killed Abel, and as a result was excluded from the line of Adam. Therefore Seth is the first son mentioned: And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. (Gen 4:25)
So you can either take the Bible seriously, or forever hold your peace.
You're right about that!!! Satan's first sin. Not in heaven trying to overthrow God.
"Because you did this"
Had intercourse and had Cain...after the fall. Don't get mad. The Spirit will teach us both. Be a big boy.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Where does it say, weekly, and not daily? I know you are referring to the Sabbath but do you have proof?
Jostler
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 14:12 NKJV — “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
hmmmm, proof ha...well I suppose it depends on what one deems as proof but don't you find it curious that after the whole creative process God put one day aside. I wonder why he did that? Here they were, Mr and Mrs in a setting which we can only imagine....the 40 hr week had not been introduced.....you could say they were self employed, hmmmm...doing what?......the definition between work and play for them would have been interesting. In any case God sets this day aside ie, a whole rotation of the planet. Was it for the onlookers? (the angels) seems not. Waaaay down the track Jesus tells us it was made for man....a perfect man at that as Mr & Mrs were (he probably had a clue)....hmmm, I suppose I'll have to keep wondering!
Yes, according to the scripture account, Cain and Abel were Adam and Eve's first offspring.
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
The reason Eve said what she said about Cain, is because, as the firstborn, she would think that he (Cain) was the fulfillment of the promise of Genesis 3:15, "[the] man" (thus the "seed", as Cain is a tiller of the ground, a sower of seed), the redeemer. Eve truly thought Cain was the promised deliverer. Turned out he was a murderer instead.
Additionally, Cain and Abel are the only ones that bring an offering (as taught them by Adam/Eve), and this further indicates that there are no other sons around, though Adam and Eve did later have more children after them (Genesis 4:15,17, 5:3-4). Please take notice that the text does not say that the sister that Cain later married was alive at the time of Abel's death.
The words are indicative of both Cain and Abel being Adam/Eve's first children, with Cain being firstborn, followed at a later period by Abel. Even the Jewish commentaries agree on that point, and the talmud, the midrash (Bereshit Rabbah 22:7 - "Said R. Huna: An additional twin was born with Abel, and each claimed her. The one claimed: ‘I will have her, because I am the firstborn’; while the other maintained: ‘I must have her, because she was born with me'”", etc) also.
No, I don't. I read it as it says, being naturally (1 Corinthians 15:44-46), as opposed to unnaturally and forcing all kinds of non-scriptural material into the text.
The Bible does not give a specific time as to when Adam and Eve fell, but we know that it was before they had "Seth" which was when Adam was 130 years old (Genesis 5:3-4), and before they had Cain, and Abel also (Genesis 3:1-24, 4:1-2). So in general, we know from scripture, it was before Adam was 130 years old, at least, and more so that Cain and Abel were old enough in the history to make offerings, and keep responsibility (Genesis 4:3, "process of time"). We might also attempt an average among the first genealogy in the births of Seth's line and give a possible estimate for when Cain and Abel might have been born (but it would be speculative at best). For instance, Seth was 105 (Genesis 5:6), when his first child was born, and Enos was 90 (Genesis 5:9) when his first child was born, &c. Mahalaleel and Enoch both had their first born at 65 years of age (being the youngest listed) (Genesis 5:15,21 respectively).
So, no, they did not fall "before lunchtime", as the text indicates that time took place between their (Adam/Eve's) creation and their fall, for why would Eve be so early deceived after being warned of God and angels of the deceiver that had been cast out of Heaven? The serpent was "more subtil" (Genesis 3:1; meaning, biding its time), and waited for the right opportunity to then strike.
Absolutely not. The Bible is crystal clear on this. Adam's age, in total from first day of creation until his death, was 930 years (all), see Genesis 5:3-5. It says "Adam lived" 130 years and begat Seth. It says, "all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died." (Genesis 5:5). It is an impossibility, according to the text of scripture, for Adam or Eve to be any older (like thousands, millions, billions), for Adam himself, never made it to a full "day with the Lord" (2 Peter 3:8, meaning 1,000 years, but died just short of it, according to the promise of God, Genesis 2:17).
"Nod" just means a place of wandering (for he was to live as a "fugitive and a vagabond" (Genesis 4:14), in the valleys below and outside and to the east of Eden/the Garden of God on earth (Genesis 4:16). So "Nod" just means "out from the presence of the Lord" (Genesis 4:16; whose presence remained in the Garden of Eden on earth, behind the 2 Cherubims, which was where Adam/Eve and Cain and Abel would come to (at the gates of Eden, like the sanctiury) to offer their sacrifices, etc).
The scripture does not say that at all. Time actually passes in scripture to when Cain "went out from the presence of the LORD", then "dwelt" in the land of "nod", and marries a sister (daughter of Adam/Eve, Genesis 5:4) and has a child, then "builded a city" (Genesis 4:17) to give it as an inheritance (on earth, earthly inheritance) to his own son.
Please take the time to prayerfully read the texts provided, thank you.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Now those leaves just didn't cut it! ....do you think it was a temperature thing? or do you think they didn't want anyone to see their genitals? hmmmm. Cain's offering of plant material didn't cut it either......was there a connection???
Anyway, God made some clothes for them....ridgy didge skins....something like ugg boots I imagine.....but where did he get those skins?
Ohhh, and just back to the offerings....hmmmm....where did they get that idea? and who prescribed what was to go on the altar?....and why an altar......ohhhhhh, so many questions!!!
No, that is incorrect. His first sin was "pride", being "lifted up" (Ezekiel 28:17) in heart, which led him to violence and defiling his heart temple:
Job_41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.
Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
The "Eden the garden of God" in Ezekiel 28:13 is not referring to the "Eden" of earth (Genesis 2:8), but the "Eden" of Heaven (look at the immediate context, "mountain of God", which is Mt Zion above (not on earth), for Satan was cast out from Heaven, see Revelation 12, and thus cast from Heaven to the "ground" (Ezekiel 28:17)). The earthly "Eden" was not 'created' that day, but rather it was "planted" (Genesis 2:8), as transplant from the Heavenly Eden.
Lucifer left his first estate (arch office/position) own habitation (place) in the 3rd Heaven (the world upon which God the Father dwells), and rebelled, and was cast out of Heaven/Paradise, the Eden of God, out from the light into outer darkness of 'space' (tartarus), and he fell eventually to "earth" (Revelation 12):
2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Luk_10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Isa_14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
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