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Behold

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Projecting. Speaking of the Cross, I never got a rational explanation on how you dismiss the very words of Christ on point at Matthew 7:21.

The reason you wrote that to me, is more proof that you have no idea about NT Salvation.

You listed Matthew 7:21, yet you don't know what that actually is, and if you did, you would not have written such foolishness for all to see.

So let me show you.

What is "God's will" that Jesus is referrring to?
You probably think, like justbyfaith or ferris bueller, that its commandment keeping, or loving your neighbor, or being water baptized.
In other words, you have no idea, and are writing verses, blindly, and probably taken from a commentary that has ruined your understanding of the very basis of the Blood Atonement.

So, let me show you the work of God that is the Will of God, so that at least you can't stop using a verse that you have never studied out, or understand.

The will of God, that Jesus is referring to , is the WORK of God.
Its this, wrangler.

"the work/will of God is that you believe on JESUS, whom GOD SENT".

So, that is God's Will and WORK, that you are to do, and if you dont, you will go directly to hell after you leave your body.

Thats a promise : John 3:36
 

Mungo

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Let me not make an assertion for you, mungo.
If you can't realize that praying to MARY, is a "cult" activity,.. as you have stated, then i'll not assert that you have a clue regarding Christianity.

Follow me?
If not, post to me how you can't understand what is wrong with "mary worship", , and then i'll help you to see the Light, if possible.
Maybe its not possible.

More baseless opinions and a straw man.
If you have no evidence to back up you opinions then they are worthless.
 

Behold

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Heresy is twisting of scripture after all. As pointed out in the OP.

Let see you post a quote from me, from any Thread, including this one that is "heresy".
Give that a try, and when you can't, or if you do, you will then point yourself out as a self saving, legalist.

Watch and see, as there is no way around that reality, amazed@grace.
 

Behold

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More baseless opinions and a straw man.
If you have no evidence to back up you opinions then they are worthless.

Ive posted much evidence.
You have no ability to even respond to a quote, and all you can do is pretend that you understand, and to make that worse you just keep repeating what you can't prove.

So, if you want to again post that what im saying is not true, or a "strawman", then quote it, and get a New Testament, and post verses that are your proof?
Oh thats right, you can't.
So, just run along now.
 

Behold

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1Jo 5:18, We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
I suppose that the apostle John (the author of the above statement) was a deceived person.

Well, lets see.
First you post that you have indwelling sin, then in the next post you post that the wicked one touches you not.

So, as usual, your post's.... just like your theology.... is a grab bag full of confusion.
Someone told me that they had you go to a secular forum, and all i can say is OMG, what a mistake.
You, the water+works+commandment keeping False Gospel expert, sent to a forum where lost people need the Cross of Christ.
What could be worse for them.......Truly.

Next you'll post about water and commandments, then deny it in a later post?
It that next?
Or will you just post 1st John again, to prove that you have indwelling sin?

Well, let me show you what happens to anyone who is in heaven with indwelling sin, deceiver.
Pay attention !
= Lucifer, was found to have "iniquity IN HIM"......so, that justbyfaith, is SIN INDWELLING, that you say you have..
So, after you die, and are in Heaven with that "indwelling INIQUITY", God will do to you what Lucifer found out.

Think im kidding?
Im not.

IF you die with indwelling sin, you will meet Holy God and you sin will be dealt with, there, because Christ has not dealt with it down HERE.

= fair warning, again.
 

Mungo

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2 BILLION "cult of Mary" worldwide, disagree with you.

See, you have no idea about this, and that's on you.

Ask any Catholic .."how are you saved"..

"im water baptized and CONFIRMED into the ONE TRUE CHURCH".
So, see that?
Where is the Cross?
Where is The Christ/ ?

Go and get a "cult of Mary" bible, the Douay Rheims, and read John 3.

It says..>>"born again BY WATER".

Got that ? ?????
Let me try that again for you........
In the "cult of Mary" BIBLE, the Douay Rheims VERSION, that is created from corrupt Latin manuscripts that no Greek Scholar, and no other Scholar, (theological) other then a cult of mary scholar accepts as authentic, says...>"BORN AGAIN...= BY WATER"

"by water," by water. "BY THE WATER">

= WATER CULT.

= Jehovah's Witness and the "cult of mary"..

So, why don't you know this?

Its because you are not AWARE.

See, we are not BORN AGAIN by water, we are born again by the SPIRIT OF GOD.
Not the "water">.

Another rant and baseless opinions.

John 3:5

Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Douay Rheims 1899 American Edition from BibleGateway.)

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (KJV from BibleGateway)

Actually I normally use the RSV/RSVCE
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (RSV/RSVCE from BibleGateway)

And note, it's not just born of water, but born of water and the Spirit
 

Mungo

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Ive posted much evidence.
You have no ability to even respond to a quote, and all you can do is pretend that you understand, and to make that worse you just keep repeating what you can't prove.

So, if you want to again post that what im saying is not true, or a "strawman", then quote it, and get a New Testament, and post verses that are your proof?
Oh thats right, you can't.
So, just run along now.

You posted no evidence whatever for the two points I raised.
(see post #7)
 

mailmandan

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The reason you wrote that to me, is more proof that you have no idea about NT Salvation.

You listed Matthew 7:21, yet you don't know what that actually is, and if you did, you would not have written such foolishness for all to see.

So let me show you.

What is "God's will" that Jesus is referrring to?
You probably think, like justbyfaith or ferris bueller, that its commandment keeping, or loving your neighbor, or being water baptized.
In other words, you have no idea, and are writing verses, blindly, and probably taken from a commentary that has ruined your understanding of the very basis of the Blood Atonement.

So, let me show you the work of God that is the Will of God, so that at least you can't stop using a verse that you have never studied out, or understand.

The will of God, that Jesus is referring to , is the WORK of God.
Its this, wrangler.

"the work/will of God is that you believe on JESUS, whom GOD SENT".

So, that is God's Will and WORK, that you are to do, and if you dont, you will go directly to hell after you leave your body.

Thats a promise : John 3:36
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

What is God's will for us in order to receive eternal life?

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED (John 6:40)

AND doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18)
 

mailmandan

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Another rant and baseless opinions.

John 3:5

Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Douay Rheims 1899 American Edition from BibleGateway.)

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (KJV from BibleGateway)

Actually I normally use the RSV/RSVCE
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (RSV/RSVCE from BibleGateway)

And note, it's not just born of water, but born of water and the Spirit
Have you considered "living water"? In John 4:10, 14; and 7:37-39 we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. Did you see that? The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit is the Agent who accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

*So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.
 

Mungo

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Have you considered "living water"? In John 4:10, 14; and 7:37-39 we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. Did you see that? The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit is the Agent who accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

*So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Just because "living water" is used as a metaphor in one place does not mean you can apply that metaphor to every occurrence of the word water in other places. The default meaning of water is H2O - the wet stuff that falls from the sky and comes out of taps.

Moreover it is clear that in scripture "baptism" is with water. I can give you the evidence for this if you want it.

Moreover the early fathers of the Church understood John 3:5 to mean water. Again - do you want a quote?
Consider also that Jesus says in John 3:5 "water and the Spirit"; and Ti 3:5 says " washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit".
Again water and Spirit. (actually "washing" is a poor translation - IMO).

I could go into all this if you like but perhaps it's too much of a diversion from Behold's rants.
 

Wrangler

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The reason you wrote that to me, is more proof that you have no idea about NT Salvation.

You listed Matthew 7:21, yet you don't know what that actually is, and if you did, you would not have written such foolishness for all to see.

"the work/will of God is that you believe on JESUS, whom GOD SENT".

Solid proof that Jesus is not God, BTW,

Behold, we agree that that is partly the will of God to believe in Jesus whom God sent. Elsewhere Scripture specifically says @ Mark 11:25 to forgive others so you may be forgiven. You are dangerous in promoting a partial Gospel! Withholding forgiveness will damn believers.
 

Illuminator

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St. Thomas Aquinas taught that water has been a natural sacrament since the dawn of creation. In the age of nature—from Adam through the patriarchs—water refreshed and cleansed humankind. In the age of Law—the time of Moses—water provided a spiritual rebirth for Israel as the nation began its journey to the promised land. With Jesus, however, came the age of grace; and from that time onward water received the divine power of the Word made flesh. Though babies had always been born through “water,” now grown men and women could be “born of water and the Holy Spirit” (Jn 3:5).

The Church Fathers taught that Jesus, by descending into the waters of the River Jordan, had sanctified the waters of the world. He made them living and life-giving (see Jn 4:10–14). He made them a source of supernatural regeneration, refreshment, and cleansing.

While we are on earth, we know spiritual things by means of sensible signs. It is only in glory that we will see divine things as they are, without their sacramental veils. According to St. Thomas, water ultimately “signifies the grace of the Holy Spirit . . . For the Holy Spirit is the unfailing fountain from whom all gifts of grace flow.” The book of Revelation confirms this, as it presents the Spirit’s grace as a “river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb” (Rev 22:1).
 
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Amazed@grace

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Let see you post a quote from me, from any Thread, including this one that is "heresy".
Give that a try, and when you can't, or if you do, you will then point yourself out as a self saving, legalist.

Watch and see, as there is no way around that reality, amazed@grace.
You really didn't get it. But boyyyyy are you an obstinate self righteous angry soul.

Not indicative of peace in Christ.
 

justbyfaith

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Or, that while we are saved we still have sin within us....which would mean we aren't saved because the whole point of salvation is being saved from sin.

We are saved from the practicing of sin (1 John 3:5-9)...

The element of sin continues to indwell us even after we are saved (1 John 1:8).

2 BILLION "cult of Mary" worldwide, disagree with you.

See, you have no idea about this, and that's on you.

Ask any Catholic .."how are you saved"..

"im water baptized and CONFIRMED into the ONE TRUE CHURCH".
So, see that?
Where is the Cross?
Where is The Christ/ ?

Go and get a "cult of Mary" bible, the Douay Rheims, and read John 3.

It says..>>"born again BY WATER".

Got that ? ?????
Let me try that again for you........
In the "cult of Mary" BIBLE, the Douay Rheims VERSION, that is created from corrupt Latin manuscripts that no Greek Scholar, and no other Scholar, (theological) other then a cult of mary scholar accepts as authentic, says...>"BORN AGAIN...= BY WATER"

"by water," by water. "BY THE WATER">

= WATER CULT.

= Jehovah's Witness and the "cult of mary"..

So, why don't you know this?

Its because you are not AWARE.

See, we are not BORN AGAIN by water, we are born again by the SPIRIT OF GOD.
Not the "water">.

I will point out that the kjv says the same thing as the Doauy Rheims...

That we are born of water and the Spirit.

What is "God's will" that Jesus is referrring to?

Among the things that God says is His will is:

1) our sanctification (1 Thessalonians 4:3-5)

2) that we give thanks in everything (1 Thessalonians 5:18)

3) that everyone who sees the Son, and believes on Him, may have everlasting life (John 6:39-40).

Let see you post a quote from me, from any Thread, including this one that is "heresy".
Give that a try, and when you can't, or if you do, you will then point yourself out as a self saving, legalist.

Watch and see, as there is no way around that reality, amazed@grace.

I'm not going to search for the quote by you; but it is, I'm certain, not disputed by anyone that you teach that believers do not have indwelling sin. This is heresy that amounts to you deceiving yourself so that the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8). And if anyone believes your teaching, they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them (1 John 1:8).

And pointing that out does not make me a self-saving legalist, either. It makes me a true watchman.

Well, let me show you what happens to anyone who is in heaven with indwelling sin, deceiver.
Pay attention !
= Lucifer, was found to have "iniquity IN HIM"......so, that justbyfaith, is SIN INDWELLING, that you say you have..
So, after you die, and are in Heaven with that "indwelling INIQUITY", God will do to you what Lucifer found out.

You are not taking into account the fact that we will receive glorified bodies when we pass into the next life which will be free from the presence of sin.

In our current bodies, we are set free from the penalty and power of sin (if we are born again); but not its presence.

This is basic Christian teaching.

IF you die with indwelling sin, you will meet Holy God and you sin will be dealt with, there, because Christ has not dealt with it down HERE.

= fair warning, again.

The way that the Lord deals with sin, down here, is that He brings us to repentance concerning the practicing of sins. We continue to have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8); however, we don't walk according to the sin that dwells in our mortal flesh (1 John 3:5-9).

The element of sin, dwelling within us, is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

God has relegated sin to the flesh (Romans 8:3); and if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit we will be showing that we love the Lord and when we are judged according to our works, our works will evidence the fact that we were born again in life because we walked after the Spirit rather than the flesh the majority of the time, ever since receiving Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, and His Spirit in our hearts as a motivating factor to walk according to holiness.
 

Amazed@grace

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We are saved from the practicing of sin (1 John 3:5-9)...

The element of sin continues to indwell us even after we are saved (1 John 1:8).



I will point out that the kjv says the same thing as the Doauy Rheims...

That we are born of water and the Spirit.



Among the things that God says is His will is:

1) our sanctification (1 Thessalonians 4:3-5)

2) that we give thanks in everything (1 Thessalonians 5:18)

3) that everyone who sees the Son, and believes on Him, may have everlasting life (John 6:39-40).



I'm not going to search for the quote by you; but it is, I'm certain, not disputed by anyone that you teach that believers do not have indwelling sin. This is heresy that amounts to you deceiving yourself so that the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8). And if anyone believes your teaching, they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them (1 John 1:8).

And pointing that out does not make me a self-saving legalist, either. It makes me a true watchman.



You are not taking into account the fact that we will receive glorified bodies when we pass into the next life which will be free from the presence of sin.

In our current bodies, we are set free from the penalty and power of sin (if we are born again); but not its presence.

This is basic Christian teaching.



The way that the Lord deals with sin, down here, is that He brings us to repentance concerning the practicing of sins. We continue to have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8); however, we don't walk according to the sin that dwells in our mortal flesh (1 John 3:5-9).

The element of sin, dwelling within us, is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

God has relegated sin to the flesh (Romans 8:3); and if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit we will be showing that we love the Lord and when we are judged according to our works, our works will evidence the fact that we were born again in life because we walked after the Spirit rather than the flesh the majority of the time, ever since receiving Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, and His Spirit in our hearts as a motivating factor to walk according to holiness.
That is not the meaning nor context meant in 1 John 1:8.
 

justbyfaith

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Not if you read the context in the chapter.

If you still have sin within you, you've not been reborn, i.e.made free of all your sins, renewed, made a new creation, in Christ.
The good news tells us this.
No; the Bible teaches, in 1 John 1:8, that if we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Consider also 1 Timothy 1:15, Romans 7:18, and Philippians 3:21 (kjv). Also, Romans 8:3.

And, if we do not have sin dwelling in our mortal flesh, why does Paul exhort us in Romans 8:1-9, to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit?
 

justbyfaith

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Not if you read the context in the chapter.

If you still have sin within you, you've not been reborn, i.e.made free of all your sins, renewed, made a new creation, in Christ.
The good news tells us this.
Also, if we no longer have sin dwelling within us, that would mean that we can no longer commit sin practically. There is no reason for it; because that which causes us to sin, the element of sin, has been eradicated.

Is that what you believe?

If so, is it the basic way that you live your life?

You don't commit sin?

I would be in agreement that we can come to a place in our lives where we can no longer sin (1 John 3:9, 2 Corinthians 1:15); but for a different reason.

I would say that the element of sin can be rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it doesn't any longer have any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).