The Devil's work

justbyfaith said:

No; the Bible teaches, in 1 John 1:8, that if we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Consider also 1 Timothy 1:15, Romans 7:18, and Philippians 3:21 (kjv). Also, Romans 8:3.

And, if we do not have sin dwelling in our mortal flesh, why does Paul exhort us in Romans 8:1-9, to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit?

Click to expand...

1 John 1:8 is part of the teaching delivered to unbelievers by believers using a personal hook in relationship to appeal to those unbelievers the apostle, the saved, are leading to the gospel.
If you read the 7 verses prior you'll see this.

Talking about the blessings enjoyed by the redeemed in Christ having been saved from their sins.
Then, as to preempt the claim by those receiving the teaching that it doesn't apply to them because they have no sin within them, being there among them are practicing Jews living under the sacrificial laws, comes the rebuttal in verse 8. If they were thinking they have no sin within them.....

Nothing else and in proper context would make sense, given how Salvation transforms the dead in their sins sinner.

If, after that rebirth we're still filled with sin then we are not redeemed from our sins. Because they're still in us.
Can't have it both ways.
We cannot be reborn in Christ,washed clean of our sins, redeemed of sins God remembers no more, reborn then as a new creation in Christ ...and filled with sin.
Salvation doesn't work that way .If we're still filled with sin that makes us dead and damned, then we're not saved from being dead and damned by our sins.

justbyfaith said:

Also, if we no longer have sin dwelling within us, that would mean that we can no longer commit sin practically. There is no reason for it; because that which causes us to sin, the element of sin, has been eradicated.

Is that what you believe?

If so, is it the basic way that you live your life?

You don't commit sin?

I would be in agreement that we can come to a place in our lives where we can no longer sin (1 John 3:9, 2 Corinthians 1:15); but for a different reason.

I would say that the element of sin can be rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it doesn't any longer have any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Click to expand...

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.


If someone who claims Christ continues to sin willfully, live as they did prior to finding Christ, they're lying to themselves.
Because when they claim to have come to Christ, come to salvation for all that means according to the teaching of Jesus, and then they keep on with their fallen lifestyle afterward, there is no other way to be saved later. Because they're proving they held no faith in the one and only sacrifice for sins when they act that way.
There's one way to be saved. Living in sin after claiming Christ ain't it.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1 John 3:4-11

4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[a] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God,


That last passage puts to bed, sort of speak, the false teaching that God's law is not applicable in Christianity.

Behold said:

The reason you wrote that to me, is more proof that you have no idea about NT Salvation.

You listed Matthew 7:21, yet you don't know what that actually is, and if you did, you would not have written such foolishness for all to see.

So let me show you.

What is "God's will" that Jesus is referrring to?
You probably think, like justbyfaith or ferris bueller, that its commandment keeping, or loving your neighbor, or being water baptized.
In other words, you have no idea, and are writing verses, blindly, and probably taken from a commentary that has ruined your understanding of the very basis of the Blood Atonement.

So, let me show you the work of God that is the Will of God, so that at least you can't stop using a verse that you have never studied out, or understand.

The will of God, that Jesus is referring to , is the WORK of God.
Its this, wrangler.

"the work/will of God is that you believe on JESUS, whom GOD SENT".

So, that is God's Will and WORK, that you are to do, and if you dont, you will go directly to hell after you leave your body.

Thats a promise : John 3:36

Click to expand...

You can accuse the strawman of preaching that salvation requires certain works to maintain it, and if you could just find him, that would be entertaining.

Certainly an argument can be made, with solid scriptural backing that, a person of faith should do Good Deeds...
Now it you want to challenge me on that, I will be happy to help you out there.
But even the Christian that is saved and goes and lives in closet, is saved. He is saved just like everyone else.
The misunderstanding is that there are some that nullify Judgment Day. Now if you are not clear on what is going to happen on Judgment Day, I can help you out with that too.
And I believe the parable of the talents applies to that Day.

Behold said:

Give that a try, and when you can't, or if you do, you will then point yourself out as a self saving, legalist.

Click to expand...

Who is the legalist? You are making accusations to strawmen that I do not see. Do you think that people that quote scriptures you do not like, are legalist? Do you believe that the Bible has a legalist section?

Amazed@grace said:

1 John 1:8 is part of the teaching delivered to unbelievers by believers using a personal hook in relationship to appeal to those unbelievers the apostle, the saved, are leading to the gospel.
If you read the 7 verses prior you'll see this.

Talking about the blessings enjoyed by the redeemed in Christ having been saved from their sins.
Then, as to preempt the claim by those receiving the teaching that it doesn't apply to them because they have no sin within them, being there among them are practicing Jews living under the sacrificial laws, comes the rebuttal in verse 8. If they were thinking they have no sin within them.....

Nothing else and in proper context would make sense, given how Salvation transforms the dead in their sins sinner.

If, after that rebirth we're still filled with sin then we are not redeemed from our sins. Because they're still in us.
Can't have it both ways.
We cannot be reborn in Christ,washed clean of our sins, redeemed of sins God remembers no more, reborn then as a new creation in Christ ...and filled with sin.
Salvation doesn't work that way .If we're still filled with sin that makes us dead and damned, then we're not saved from being dead and damned by our sins.

Click to expand...

John is clearly including himself in those who, if they say that they have no sin, would be deceiving themselves so that the truth is not in them (1 John 1:8).

There is a cleansing / forgiveness that takes place when we receive the application of Christ's blood to our lives; however, sin in the flesh is not eradicated so that it no longer exists in the flesh. We still have "vile bodies" (Philippians 3:21 (kjv)).

Redemption, as sanctification, means that the element of sin within us is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

This clearly means that sin has been relegated to the flesh (Romans 8:3).

This is why Paul exhorts us not to walk after the flesh but after the Spirit...because if we walk after the flesh (otherwise known as "the sinful nature") we will be committing sins...see Galatians 5:19-21.

This is because sin resides in the flesh. We have a flesh and we have the Spirit; and these are contrary to one another, so that we cannot do the things that we would (Galatians 5:17).

If we are controlled by the flesh, then we cannot do what is righteous (Romans 7:14-25).

If we are controlled by the Spirit, then we cannot do what is sinful (1 John 3:9); and yet the fact that sin resides in our flesh means that we would do what is sinful if we could (Galatians 5:17).

Amazed@grace said:

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.


If someone who claims Christ continues to sin willfully, live as they did prior to finding Christ, they're lying to themselves.
Because when they claim to have come to Christ, come to salvation for all that means according to the teaching of Jesus, and then they keep on with their fallen lifestyle afterward, there is no other way to be saved later. Because they're proving they held no faith in the one and only sacrifice for sins when they act that way.
There's one way to be saved. Living in sin after claiming Christ ain't it.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1 John 3:4-11

4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[a] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God,


That last passage puts to bed, sort of speak, the false teaching that God's law is not applicable in Christianity.

Click to expand...

So, as concerning you, personally...

You don't commit sin?

Grailhunter said:

You can accuse the strawman of preaching that salvation requires certain works to maintain it...

Click to expand...

I refer to that as "type 2 works salvation."

mailmandan said:

I refer to that as "type 2 works salvation."

Click to expand...

This is why I preach that salvation / righteousness is by faith (not of works, Ephesians 2:8-9) from beginning to end and all the way through (Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:1-3, Colossians 2:6).

justbyfaith said:

I will point out that the kjv says the same thing as the Doauy Rheims...

That we are born of water and the Spirit.

Click to expand...

We are born again of the “water of the word” as the doctrine of God it as a metaphor represents the unseen work of the Holy Sprit. Therefore identifying inspired or loosed from heaven bound on earth. . Not earthly loosed from Rome after H20 .

H20 can get a person wet but it will evaporate. . Unlike the eternal word. . lasting forever

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Deuteronomy 32:1-2 King James Version (KJV) Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

justbyfaith said:

It most assuredly is.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is him alone that can keep His born again believers from falling and him who longingly calls us back when we do fall like the foolish Galatians. Because it is Christ working in us to both will and empower us we can please God without him we can do nothing that could please the Father.

The key to understanding is “work out” as it works in what we have freely been given. And not "work to gain" (impossible) only Jesus did the will of the father perfectly without sin

Philippians 2:11-13 King James Version (KJV) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

He alone is our confidence not some queen of heaven some have named Mary .

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Gary Urban said:

We are born again of the “water of the word” as the doctrine of God it as a metaphor represents the unseen work of the Holy Sprit. Therefore identifying inspired or loosed from heaven bound on earth. . Not earthly loosed from Rome after H20 .

H20 can get a person wet but it will evaporate. . Unlike the eternal word. . lasting forever

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Deuteronomy 32:1-2 King James Version (KJV) Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Click to expand...

Yes, saying that the "water" in John 3:5 is the word, is, I suppose, a valid, alternate interpretation to the plain meaning of what is spoken there; which concerns water baptism.

It should be clear when studying out 1 Peter 3:20-21 that water baptism is a symbol that doth also now save us...it is the symbol of baptism that does the saving...when we identify with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection through water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, Romans 8:30; Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12). This identification with Christ is a confession of Jesus before men, and is therefore capable of procuring salvation (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

So, it is not the water that saves but it is the symbol that the water represents that does the saving...going underneath the water is probably the only way that we can accurately represent being buried and risen with Christ. There are no magical, salvational properties in the water...but going underneath the water saves a man because it is an accurate representation of what must happen in the heart....that the man is buried and risen with Christ...in that this is a confession of Jesus Christ before men.

Gary Urban said:

Yes, it is him alone that can keep His born again believers from falling and him who longingly calls us back when we do fall like the foolish Galatians. Because it is Christ working in us to both will and empower us we can please God without him we can do nothing that could please the Father.

The key to understanding is “work out” as it works in what we have freely been given. And not "work to gain" (impossible) only Jesus did the will of the father perfectly without sin

Philippians 2:11-13 King James Version (KJV) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

He alone is our confidence not some queen of heaven some have named Mary .

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Click to expand...

And if you think that I am promoting water baptism out of being Catholic, you would be mistaken.

I promote that doctrine because of a leaning towards Oneness Pentecostalism.

"Easy believism" is the concept of believing that we play no part in abiding in God's Grace, which is contrary to Scripture that clearly teaches us that obedience is required to remain in God's Grace.

justbyfaith said:

So, as concerning you, personally...

You don't commit sin?

Click to expand...

What does Jesus tell you? That is the Christian and the answer.

justbyfaith said:

John is clearly including himself in those who, if they say that they have no sin, would be deceiving themselves so that the truth is not in them (1 John 1:8).

There is a cleansing / forgiveness that takes place when we receive the application of Christ's blood to our lives; however, sin in the flesh is not eradicated so that it no longer exists in the flesh. We still have "vile bodies" (Philippians 3:21 (kjv)).

Redemption, as sanctification, means that the element of sin within us is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

This clearly means that sin has been relegated to the flesh (Romans 8:3).

This is why Paul exhorts us not to walk after the flesh but after the Spirit...because if we walk after the flesh (otherwise known as "the sinful nature") we will be committing sins...see Galatians 5:19-21.

This is because sin resides in the flesh. We have a flesh and we have the Spirit; and these are contrary to one another, so that we cannot do the things that we would (Galatians 5:17).

If we are controlled by the flesh, then we cannot do what is righteous (Romans 7:14-25).

If we are controlled by the Spirit, then we cannot do what is sinful (1 John 3:9); and yet the fact that sin resides in our flesh means that we would do what is sinful if we could (Galatians 5:17).

Click to expand...

That's quite a reworking of the word there. My purpose isn't to change your mind. You'll see it in God's own time.

Amazed@grace said:

What does Jesus tell you? That is the Christian and the answer.

Click to expand...

I can see that you want to continue to evade the question.

Amazed@grace said:

That's quite a reworking of the word there. My purpose isn't to change your mind. You'll see it in God's own time.

Click to expand...

No, it is not a "reworking" of the word...

It is sound exposition.

Maybe, to you, it seems to be a reworking of the word; because you never understood the teaching on it before and have a different point of view.

Likewise, I believe that you will see what I am saying in God's own timing.

Even as it is written,

Phl 3:15, Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

justbyfaith said:

I can see that you want to continue to evade the question.

Click to expand...

If you knew the scriptures you would not ask the question.
You seek to insist, prosthletize, the doctrine of the Catholic church here.
And you judge us by that doctrine.
You confess to s priest your sins and ask him to give you a solution. You live that way, hold to what you've been told are the sacraments and their place in your life. You believe in the church.

And when you die, hoping a priest is near to give you last rites, you accept and believe you're going to enter a place called purgatory. Where you are to be cleansed of those residual dins all those confessions to the priests didn't free you of.
That is your belief as a Catholic.

They aren't mine. Nor are they those of Jesus.
Which is why I said, I am not here to change your mind about your beliefs.
That's now evasion. That's reality.
The Catholic church is an entity into itself. It is not the church of Christ.

Amazed@grace said:

If you knew the scriptures you would not ask the question.
You seek to insist, prosthletize, the doctrine of the Catholic church here.
And you judge us by that doctrine.
You confess to s priest your sins and ask him to give you a solution. You live that way, hold to what you've been told are the sacraments and their place in your life. You believe in the church.

And when you die, hoping a priest is near to give you last rites, you accept and believe you're going to enter a place called purgatory. Where you are to be cleansed of those residual dins all those confessions to the priests didn't free you of.
That is your belief as a Catholic.

They aren't mine. Nor are they those of Jesus.
Which is why I said, I am not here to change your mind about your beliefs.
That's now evasion. That's reality.
The Catholic church is an entity into itself. It is not the church of Christ.

Click to expand...

I think that you have me confused with @theefaith.

justbyfaith said:

So, as concerning you, personally...

You don't commit sin?

Click to expand...

Amazed@grace said:

What does Jesus tell you? That is the Christian and the answer.

Click to expand...

justbyfaith said:

I can see that you want to continue to evade the question.

Click to expand...

My apologies. Though minus the commentary as pertains to Catholicism, the message would apply still to your query.

It isn't avoiding the question that arrives as a trap. Because while many a one says we believe what is written, and we are saved by grace through faith, the blood covering of sins for some is unbelievable.
Unable to imagine,accept,holding faith, all that pertains to our full redemption from sin.

And all that Jesus taught and accomplished from the cross.

Some Christians live believing they are still sinners who sin.

When Jesus words can't teach them to release that falsehood, what can I or others who live the truth hope to achieve by trying?

Except to invite replies that are not polite.

In this world some would rather live with themselves and what they believe, not what Jesus creates within us. And while seeing those not in that frame of mind as someone to attack and for that reason.

And in so doing open the door for yet another scripture to enter in by God's will;
They prove they really are living as sinners.

Maybe that is how Jesus will lead them to release the falsehood that leads them to that.

So, you are saying that you are not a sinner who sins.

I can accept that; as long as you are speaking in practical terms.

I would only say that the reason why you are not a sinner who sins, is not because the element of sin has been eradicated from you; but because it has been rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) it no longer has any say over your behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Sin has been relegated to the flesh (Romans 8:3); and because you walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in you (Romans 8:4), i.e. you don't sin (1 John 3:4).

By abiding in Jesus you "sin not" (1 John 3:6) for ever more (1 John 2:17).

You have a flesh and you have the Spirit; and because these are contrary to one another, you cannot do the things that you would (Galatians 5:17).

When you are controlled by the flesh, you cannot do what is righteous (Romans 7:14-25); though you may desire to do what is righteous.

When you are controlled by the Spirit, you cannot do what is sinful (1 John 3:9); while you may desire to do what is sinful: because the element of sin has not been eradicated from you but it still dwells within you; and if you are sanctified, it has been rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over your behaviour (Romans 6:14).

This is sound doctrine.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh (John 3:6a) and because you were born of flesh, that is what you are. You do not cease to be flesh when you are born of the Spirit.

And in your flesh there dwelleth no good thing (Romans 7:18).

That which is born of the Spirit is spirit (John 3:6b).

In the born again believer, sin has been relegated to the flesh (Romans 8:3)