Proof that Jesus is God

amigo de christo said:

Many US , lets examine this . Your right many Us holidays are named after men .
But GOD is not a man that he would give any name to be baptized in . ONLY in HIS NAME .

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Obviously, we disagree with that.

Other verses clearly state Jesus said to baptize in his name. Trinitarian dualists do not recognize this contradicts the verse that references 3 on the contradictory idea that they are one.

Why do all the prologues of all the epistles reference only the Father and the Son and all only identify the Father, alone as God?

The twisting logic, definition and language usage is ridiculous.

keithr said:

That's a mistranslation in the KJV:

Philippians 2:6 -
(KJV): Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(WEB): who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

The KJV translation (Translated by Triitarians!) gives the opposite meaning of what the Greek manuscripts say!


That Lord should be LORD or Yahweh - it is God's name in the Hebrew text.



That is referring to Jesus, not God:

(Rev 19:11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

(Rev 3:14) “To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: “The Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of God’s creation, says these things:

(Rev 1:5) and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and washed us from our sins by his blood;

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That's why I have a Companion Bible (by Bullinger), and a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, which was made to work with the KJV.

There Used to be a "preface" in older KJV's, that somehow got "axed" over the years.

NayborBear said:

That's why I have a Companion Bible (by Bullinger), and a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, which was made to work with the KJV.

There Used to be a "preface" in older KJV's, that somehow got "axed" over the years.

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The Greek states Jesus was MORPHE THEOS - was in the form of God by His nature - before emptying Himself, Greek word KENOO - to make empty, to make void, to make of no effect - before taking the form of a man.

Jesus existed in the form of God that He had by His very nature, then emptied Himself, set aside the manifestation of divinity, before taking the form of a man.

That’s proof of His divinity.

CEV:
Php 2:6 Christ was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.

Php 2:7 Instead he gave up everything and became a slave, when he became like one of us.

GNB:
Php 2:6 He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.

Php 2:7 Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness.

Philippians 2:6-7
Amplified Bible
6 who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it]; 7 but emptied Himself [without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity] by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men [He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man].

Amplified Bible is a more in depth translation, that brings out more fully the shades of meaning in the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.

keithr said:

The Apostle Paul wrote:

"yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him" (1 Corinthians 8:6, WEB)​

Also:

Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” (John 20:17, WEB)​

and Jesus also said:

He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name. (Rev 3:12, WEB)​

Clearly Jesus and Paul did not believe that Jesus was God (almighty God, Yahweh) - and Jesus should know! We have these (and other) simple, easily and clearly understandable verses which should help us to correctly interpret other verses which are more ambiguous or more difficult to understand. The only way to harmonise all the verses of Scripture is if they are interpreted on the foundational truth that Yahweh is God and Jesus is Yahweh's only begotten son.

Another example from Acts 5 (WEB):

30) The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a tree.
31) God exalted him with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins.
32) We are His witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”​

How can God exalt himself with his right hand? This does not make sense if Jesus is God, but does make sense if Jesus is God’s son. God is not the Messiah; God did not anoint himself! (Messiah means 'anointed'). The Holy Spirit is not a person who makes up a trinity god of beings, for God gives the Holy Spirit to many people.

Above you referenced Ephesians 4:5 to say that there is one Lord (and indeed we have just one Lord, Jesus, as Paul confirmed in the quote above). But you should tie that together with Pauls introductory remarks at the beginning of his letter:

(Eph 1:1) Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to the saints who are at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus:
(Eph 1:2) Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Eph 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ;
(Eph 1:17) that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, ...

It was only after his resurrection that Jesus said, "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth" (Mat 28:18, WEB). So Jesus now has all authority in heaven and on earth, because God gave it to him. But as Paul points out in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 (WEB):

For, “He put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when he says, “All things are put in subjection”, it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him.
When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.​

It's clear from these verses that Jesus is not God.

Your expression, "Both being the true and only God" does not make logical sense! It's like saying two different bishops are both the only true Pope - it's not possible!

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That Jesus is divine is ridiculously clear in scripture.

Posting scriptures that are true of God the Logos (Jesus) AFTER His kenosis wherein He left the form of God in heaven, to become a humble servant and man on earth DO NOT PROVE HE IS NOT GOD by His nature.

Quoting scripture regarding His servanthood after His incarnation as a man, and ignoring the scriptures that show His eternal preexisting deity, is what the JWs love to do.

Curtis said:

The Greek states Jesus was MORPHE THEOS - was in the form of God by His nature - before emptying Himself, Greek word KENOO - to make empty, to make void, to make of no effect - before taking the form of a man.

Jesus existed in the form of God that He had by His very nature, then emptied Himself, set aside the manifestation of divinity, before taking the form of a man.

That’s proof of His divinity.

CEV:
Php 2:6 Christ was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.

Php 2:7 Instead he gave up everything and became a slave, when he became like one of us.

GNB:
Php 2:6 He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.

Php 2:7 Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness.

Philippians 2:6-7
Amplified Bible
6 who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it]; 7 but emptied Himself [without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity] by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men [He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man].

Amplified Bible is a more in depth translation, that brings out more fully the shades of meaning in the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.

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Right! Those different translations pretty much summed up what the Strong's renderings on the word robbery said. There was an additional word plunder, I found when chasing down base words and roots of meanings for "robbery."

NayborBear said:

Right! Those different translations pretty much summed up what the Strong's renderings on the word robbery said. There was an additional word plunder, I found when chasing down base words and roots of meanings for "robbery."

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Harpagmos (Phil. 2:6)
Now notice how these two very trinitarian Bibles have rendered it:
1. “He did not think to snatch at [harpagmos, ἁρπαγμὸς] equality with God”[1] - NEB.
2. “He did not think that by force [harpagmos] he should try to become equal with God” - TEV (and GNB).

We believe that the translations by the trinitarian NEB and TEV Bibles of this part of Phil. 2:6 must be the intended meaning of the original writer of this scripture because (in part, at least) of the obvious meaning of the New Testament (NT) Greek word harpagmos (ἁρπαγμὸς).

There could be some doubt about the meaning of the word harpagmos if we looked only at the NT Greek Scriptures (since harpagmos occurs only at Phil. 2:6 in the entire New Testament). We would then only have the meaning of the source words for harpagmos to determine its intended meaning.

Even so, Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance (by trinitarian writer and trinitarian publisher) tells us that harpagmos means “plunder” and that it comes from the source word harpazo which means: “to seize ... catch away, pluck, take (by force).” - #725 & 726, Abingdon Press, 1974 printing.

“725 harpagmós – to seize, especially by an open display of force. See 726 (harpazō).” - HELPS Word-studies, copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc.

And the New American Standard Concordance of the Bible (also by trinitarians) tells us: “harpagmos; from [harpazo]; the act of seizing or the thing seized.” And, “harpazo ... to seize, catch up, snatch away.” Notice that all have to do with taking something away by force. - # 725 & #726, Holman Bible Publ., 1981.

In fact, the trinitarian The Expositor’s Greek Testament, 1967, pp. 436, 437, vol. III, tells us:
“We cannot find any passage where [harpazo] or any of its derivatives [which include harpagmos] has the sense of ‘holding in possession,’ ‘retaining’ [as preferred in many trinitarian translations of Phil. 2:6]. It seems invariably to mean ‘seize’, ‘snatch violently’. Thus it is not permissible to glide from the true sense [‘snatch violently’] into one which is totally different, ‘hold fast.’ ”

Even the very trinitarian NT Greek expert, W. E. Vine, had to admit that harpagmos is “akin to harpazo, to seize, carry off by force.” - p. 887, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.

And the trinitarian The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology tells us that the majority of Bible scholars (mostly trinitarian, of course) “have taken harpagmos to mean a thing plundered or seized..., and so spoil, booty or a prize of war.” - p. 604, vol. 3, Zondervan, 1986.

The key to both these words (harpagmos and its source word, harpazo) is: taking something away from someone by force and against his will. And if we should find a euphemism such as “prize” used in a trinitarian Bible for harpagmos, it has to be understood only in the same sense as a pirate ship forcibly seizing another ship as its “prize”!
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And as for Curtis' post that "The Greek states Jesus was MORPHE THEOS - was in the form of God by His nature" - There is nothing in the word morphe that includes one's 'nature.' It simply means the visible form of something.

Wrangler said:

No assumption. It’s simply a fact that the trinity is not in the Bible.

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Strawman, non-sequitur.

Trio, not "trinity".

Wrangler said:

By contrast, God is said to be one alone over and over again.

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Yes, "one", as in unity of persons/beings working together, like as a "chord" in music, or a family, or a team, in contrast to the division among the false gods, the fallen angels. This can be demonstrated from Genesis to Revelation if you desire, in English, in Hebrew and in koine Greek.

Wrangler said:

Even Jesus tells his Father he is the one true God at John 17:3.

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Already addressed, asked and answered - Proof that Jesus is God

You didn't even respond to what was given you already.

Wrangler said:

Doesn’t this mean anything to you?

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Read my response, and you'll see exactly what that text means in its context.

Wrangler said:

Weak.

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Again, you say, "Weak", which again is not zero evidence, and again you say "Weak.", without providing evidence that it is so. It is merely your subjective aprioric claim, and can be safely ignored without prejudice, being devoid of evidence to support the claim. The language is very straight forward and plain in koine Greek and English.

Every person who believes what the scriptures [KJB] teach, believes in the Deity and eternality of the person/being of the Father, the person/being of the Son [Jesus] and the person/being of the Holy Spirit.

Those who thus believe the scriptures [KJB] fully agree with every text of scripture [KJB] which say that there is "One LORD" [Deuteronomy 6:4; Zechariah 14:9; Mark 12:29; 1 Corinthians 8:6 KJB], or "One God" [1 Corinthians 8:6 KJB, which is an expansion of Deuteronomy 6:4; Mark 12:29, etc KJB] or other texts such which say there is "no" other "God beside" JEHOVAH Elohiym [Deuteronomy 32:39; Isaiah 43:10, 44:6,8, 45:5,21 KJB].

Those who believe the scripture [KJB] agree fully with what they teach in that there is no other JEHOVAH Elohiym, but JEHOVAH Elohiym; though some may have a slight misunderstanding of what that specifically entails. The matter will fall into what the scripture [KJB] teaches about the persons/beings of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost/Spirit, and the word "one".

JEHOVAH [name, character, singular] Elohiym [3 persons, multiple]. At-one-ment. Not a single person, but 3 eternal persons/beings.

Not a three-headed hydra.

Not one person masquerading as three persons. Not one being with three personalities. Not two persons pretending to be a third person. Not two beings with three personalities.

Not a ventriliquist.

There are three persons/beings. Working in perfect musical harmony, symphony, and in a singular "chord" [thus 'one accord']. We may see this in Matthew 28:19 KJB:

Matthew 28:19 KJB - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:19 GNT TR - πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος
The name of God, represents His character:

Exodus 33:18 KJB - And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

Exodus 33:19 KJB - And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

Exodus 33:20 KJB - And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Exodus 33:21 KJB - And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

Exodus 33:22 KJB - And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

Exodus 33:23 KJB - And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Exodus 34:1 KJB - And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Exodus 34:2 KJB - And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.

Exodus 34:3 KJB - And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.

Exodus 34:4 KJB - And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.

Exodus 34:5 KJB - And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

Exodus 34:6 KJB - And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

Exodus 34:7 KJB - Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Exodus 34:8 KJB - And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

Connected with His name/His glory/His character is in the Ten Commandments, the written transcript of His very perfect character:

Exodus 20:5 KJB - Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The very name [singular], being the character and Glory of God, JEHOVAH, is shared amongst the persons [multiplicity] of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit/Ghost.

[the singular name]

[KJB] “... in the name ...”

[GNT] “... εἰς τὸ ὄνομα ...”

This is singular and definite [article], yet there is seen plurality of persons which all share/have it. Three distinct definite [article] persons to be specific, each joined by the “and” [“kai”] construct:

[1st “person”]

[KJB] “... of the Father, ...”,

[GNT TR] “... του πατρος ...”

[KJB] “... and ...”,

[GNT TR] “... και ...”

[2nd “person”]

[KJB] “... of the Son, ...”,

[GNT TR] “... του υιου ...”

[KJB] “... and ...”,

[GNT TR] “... και ...”

[3rd “person”]

[KJB] “... of the Holy Ghost ...”,

[GNT TR] “... του αγιου πνευματος ...”

The doctrine of Godhead, as taught in Matthew 28:19 KJB, is revealed all throughout the King James Bible, and may be demonstrated upon request.

Wrangler said:

If Jesus said to baptize in the name of Moe, Larry and Curly

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False representation of the text and doctrine being shown to you. Again, a strawman, or at the least a grave misunderstanding.

The "name" is "singular", as shown to you above, and therefore, is not as if it were 'three names' (like "Moe, Larry and Curly"), but a singular name - JEHOVAH Elohiym. Which name represents the entire family of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, as if I were to say, "Jones family name" (John Jones (Father), John Jones Jr. (Son), Jones Related (Relative Jones)). Therefore, you misunderstand, or misrepresent Matthew 28:19 and its plain words.

Wrangler said:

it does not mean they are God.

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Actually it does, since "God" in Genesis 1:1, and in several other places is in the Hebrew, true plural 3 (minimum) or more, Elohiym. It is just the same as saying there is only One Gospel, and yet 4 Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and yet though there are 4 persons here, they together as a team/family, share one singular heart in matters of the Gospel. They do not disagree with one another, and the same for all of scriptures, from Genesis (Moses), Psalms (David, Solomon, Moses, Asaph, etc), Prophets (Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel, Amos, & etal), and the NT writers (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, Tertias, etc). Many persons, same (one) message. Like a marriage, Man & Woman and God uniting them as "one" family, spiritually as "one" (united) body.

You mistake the word "one" and do not understand how the Bible uses the word. It's clear how it defines the word (a simple and plain example):

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Did you see how the Bible defines "are one"? it means "agree in one", thus multiple persons/beings working in harmony, symphony, as a "chord" (like three individual notes that when sung together in harmony, make a unified sound, that cannot be made by the three individuals separately, which is why "three" and "trio" mean something different, just as "two", and "duo", or "four" and "quartet" are differing.)

Wrangler said:

And it say nothing of their co-equal, co-eternal, co-substantial nature.

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Strawman (of trinitarianism). Non-sequitur. I even told you that the nature of the Holy Ghost is a mystery not given in scripture, and therefore to say something like that the Holy Ghost is "co-substantial [in] nature" with the Father and Son is simply not stated in scripture, and is man-made.

You continually do not understand my (thus scriptures) position, and continually argue against a phantom of your own making, or another's.

Wrangler said:

LOL.

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Ecc_7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity.

Pro_14:9 Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.

Job_21:3 Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on.

Wrangler said:

Beings are not words.

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You do not even understand your own origins or genetic makeup. Your physical nature is made up of DNA, which are 'letters', which combine in very orderly and specific ways to make words, which make up the instructions/blueprints to make your physical structure. We are, in a very real sense, words.

Jesus, also has many names in scripture, one of which is the eternal "Word" of the Father (a title of Son of the Father, even as Messiah/Christ is a title, &c), since He was sent with the greatest message from the Father, as the Son is the arch-angel (Michael, the one who is like (the express image)) of God the Father.

You even deny scripture when you say something as you have, for how were all created things made? By God's words spoken:

Gen 1:3 "And God said, Let there be ..."

Psa_33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Psa_33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Wrangler said:

Logic
Definition
Language usage.

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Indeed, of which I have seen none so far from yourself, or argumentation, but if you will drop the strawmen, put aside your ignorance (not knowing) of a position, and address what I have shared, then you will have the true logic, definition, and language usage.

Right now, you are even contradicting your own position by saying what you have. Think about it.

Wrangler said:

Nope. I see you copying and pasting copious amounts of information to a simple question. Seems you are baffling yourself with BS.

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There are none so blind, as who are willingly blind. Do you complain/whine when the sections of scripture are repeated from one place/person to another, as when in Chronicles or Kings or Samuel or Isaiah or Psalms or NT cite whole sections of text verbatim from another place? Your measurement of scales is imbalanced, unequal in judgment. Do you say that they are "copying and pasting copius amounts of information" to so simple idea as the Everlasting Gospel? The "BS" comes from one who refuses to acknowledge these texts in practice:

Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

Therefore, will you read or not read my answer to your crumbling position? If not:

Luk_8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Luk_13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The answer was given you, and you are now without excuse, and can no longer feign ignorance of the truth of the matter.

Wrangler said:

I don’t think you know that ONE cannot reference “they.”

More violations of
Logic
Definition
Language Usage.

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You seem to be greatly ignorant of the English language and of the multiple layers of the word "one".

Here are modern headlines for you:

"Texas to wear 'We Are One' patch on jerseys in 2020" - Texas to wear 'We Are One' patch on jerseys in 2020

"WATCH: Southern University’s Human Jukebox Marching Band ‘We Are One’ video" - WATCH: Southern University’s Human Jukebox Marching Band ‘We Are One’ video

"Headlines from China: Biopic “The Iron Hammer” Will Premiere on “We Are One” Global Online Film Festival" - Headlines from China: Biopic “The Iron Hammer” Will Premiere on “We Are One” Global Online Film Festival |

"Abhixit – They Are One. Together!" - Love – Abhixit – They Are One. Together!

Could someone PULEASE explain to me what are all these ramblings on with trinitaryianism and unitarianism?

ReChoired said:

Strawman (of trinitarianism). Non-sequitur. I even told you that the nature of the Holy Ghost is a mystery not given in scripture, and therefore to say something like that the Holy Ghost is "co-substantial [in] nature" with the Father and Son is simply not stated in scripture, and is man-made.

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If I may present to you this verse:
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

It seems as if you would reject any teaching from one who has been taught by such an anointing, as you would claim it is also "man made." Right?

Wrangler said:

Repeating ourselves is pointless.

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Some agreement here, though not totally. Repetition is found even in scripture (it's why there are 4 Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, &c).

However, you might begin to address what I have shared.

Wrangler said:

There is many proofs Jesus is not God.

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All the texts you indicated so far show is that the Person/Being of the Son is not the Person/Being of the Father. Thus you have provided nothing so far, which shows that Jesus is not "God" (John 1:1c), but only provided that which shows that Jesus is not "God" (John 1:1b). You still haven't even addressed this simple idea yet.

Wrangler said:

Jesus died and was resurrected by God is an obvious one.

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Jesus could die because he took upon himself the nature of mankind. Humanity died, not Divinity.

Did you read the texts on the resurrection? It took more than the Father to raise Jesus from the dead. It took Three Persons/Beings:

Question: Who raised Jesus from the Dead?:

JEHOVAH Elohiym:


JEHOVAH, the Ancient of Days did (the Father):

Jesus JEHOVAH did (the Son):

The HOLY SPIRIT of JEHOVAH did (the Holy Ghost):

Wrangler said:

Does it not mean anything to you that Jesus said his Father is the one true God at John 17:3? Does it not mean anything to you that Jesus talked about his God at John 20:17 and Revelations 3?

and all who receive Me will experience everlasting life, a new intimate relationship with You (the one True God) and Jesus the Anointed (the One You have sent).
John 17:3

But that was not the end:God raised Him from the dead
Acts 13:30

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Asked and answered (see above and the following) - Proof that Jesus is God

NayborBear said:

If I may present to you this verse:
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

It seems as if you would reject any teaching from one who has been taught by such an anointing, as you would claim it is also "man made." Right?

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Read the context of my statement. When I said "man made" it refers to that ideology which excludes anything to do with God inspired. Thus I am dealing with men uninspired of the Holy Ghost, and only inspired of the devil, thus "man made".

Scripture says that which men speak by any inspiration (God or devil) is to be compared to the scripture (OT-NT, Genesis to Revelation), and if it does not speak according to those words therein, there is no light in it.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (hint, men are not "good", but God (thus His word) is Good))

1Co_14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

What are the true counsellors?

Psa_119:24 Thy testimonies also are my delight and my counsellors.

ReChoired said:

... again you say "Weak.", without providing evidence that it is so. It is merely your subjective aprioic claim,

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Eh? What? I have never come across the word "aprioic" before, and I can't find it in any English dictionary, so I have no idea of what you are trying to say. I have found that using simple, basic language is the best form of communication. Using words that the vast majority of people have never heard doesn't help you communicate, it just confuses people and leads to presumption and errors!

amigo de christo said:

In what world would God desire anyone to be baptized in the name of one who is not God . Did you ever ponder that .
God would not point to the names of other gods . They are ONE my friend .

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You're just making assumptions. What does baptism (immersion) symbolise? Romans 6:3 says, "Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" God has not died, nor will He ever die. Jesus did die, and we follow in his footsteps, sacrifing our human lives too, hence we are baptised into Jesus.

Romans 8:16-17 (WEB): The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God; and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him.

Jesus cannot be an heir of God if he is God! We with Jesus will be joint heirs of God, and we are definitely not God either!

Just because i take a bucket of water from the ocean and present it to my class and ask the class
is this the ocean . And they answer and say well no , dont mean it aint . FROM WHENCE did i draw it . ITS the same essence
as the ocean . same water , same everything . And if i pour it back into the ocean , THERE IT IS , same ocean .

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No it isn't! It's a bucket of sea water. An ocean is a "great, or vast, body of salt water", whereas a bucket of water most certainly isn't!

Curtis said:

Posting scriptures that are true of God the Logos (Jesus) AFTER His kenosis wherein He left the form of God in heaven, to become a humble servant and man on earth DO NOT PROVE HE IS NOT GOD by His nature.

Quoting scripture regarding His servanthood after His incarnation as a man, and ignoring the scriptures that show His eternal preexisting deity, is what the JWs love to do.

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1 Corinthians 15 (WEB):
24) Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25) For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
27) For, “He put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when he says, “All things are put in subjection”, it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him.
28) When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.

Even at the end of the Jesus' 1,000 year reign, and going forward into eternity, Jesus will still be a subject/servant of God.

The son of a giraffe is a giraffe.
The son of a centipede is a centipede.
The son of a man is a man.
The son of an apple tree is an apple tree.
You get the picture. Like begets like. That's the way God created everything. After their own kind. Created in the image of God.

The Son of God is... Fairly obvious don't you think, and the greatest evidence for the divinity of Christ. Which is why the Jews said to Him... We are persecuting you because you, a mere man, make yourself out to be God... Because you said God is your Father.

Backlit said:

The son of a giraffe is a giraffe.
The son of a centipede is a centipede.
The son of a man is a man.
The son of an apple tree is an apple tree.
You get the picture. Like begets like. That's the way God created everything. Agree their own kind. Created in the image of God.

The Son of God is... Fairly obvious don't you think, and the greatest evidence for the divinity of Christ. Which is why the Jews said to Him... We are persecuting you because you, a mere man, makes Himself out to be God... Because you said God is your Father.

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Which means you don't have to accept our believe is a "Trinity" in order to believe in the divinity of Jesus. All you have to believe it's that He is the Son of God. The rest takes care of itself.
KJV 1 John 5:10
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.