My Methodist Church is leaving the denomination.

theefaith said:

not the true church founded by Christ on peter

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That is not the true church.

The idea that an all-powerful deity would found a church on the power of a breath, a puny man is absurd.

Wrangler said:

That is not the true church.

The idea that an all-powerful deity would found a church on the power of a breath, a puny man is absurd.

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Scripture says so matt 16:18
Jn 20:21-23

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

theefaith said:

Scripture DOES NOT say ....and their successors

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The RCC is corrupt and has been for a Millenia.

Wrangler said:

The RCC is corrupt and has been for a Millenia.

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We have been over this ground before


The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the age, so the successors must remain until the end of the age) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)


Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Matthias succeeded him as apostle

acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

There must be successors to teach all nations, baptize disciples and feed Christ’s sheep Jn 10:16 one church

Heart2Soul said:

Why is that?

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Major covenants!

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who make Peter His personal representative and vicar!

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

Kingdom

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

the holy Catholic Church

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.



Kingdom:

Requirements:

structure: order chaos

hierarchy:

Ritual:

Mediator:

Authority:


Hierarchy or anarchy?

————

Matt 23 Jesus commands the successors of Moses to be obeyed!

Kingdom authority: (keys) vs 13
Kingdom power: (bind & loose) vs 4
Taken from Israel given to the church: Matt 21:43 to Peter, the apostles, and their successors. Matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Peter, and the apostles, and their successors sent by Christ!
Matt 28:19 Jn 13:20 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

rockytopva said:

I believe the church congregations as seven....

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

I have often thought the difference between the fifth and sixth congregations is that the Sardisean does not believe in backsliding but the Philadelphian practice it! In the article below we have a Baptist preacher speaking out against the evils of having gay drag queens in ministry at Methodist churches. The Methodist church was at one time a wonderful place!

Church Fast Tracking Drag Queen to Ministry Gets Spiritual Wake-Up Call from Southern Baptist Leader

The article goes on to say.... As far as WMBD-TV was concerned, this was great. Just look at the station’s headline on April 25: “Central Illinois man on path to Church leadership is breaking barriers within the United Methodist Church.”

“Homosexuality is a controversial topic and is something the United Methodist Church is considering splitting over and creating a new traditional denomination. But Simmons is breaking barriers within the Methodist Church,” it reported.

I would definitely leave such a place!

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scripture has no denominations only
The one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9:4 why persecute me?

the 7 churches so called in rev are the one true church located in different places
The church is catholic universal

Major covenants!

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

Kingdom

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

the holy Catholic Church

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.



Kingdom:

Requirements:

structure: order chaos

hierarchy:

Ritual:

Mediator:

Authority:


Hierarchy or anarchy?

————

Matt 23 Jesus commands the successors of Moses to be obeyed!

Kingdom authority: (keys) vs 13
Kingdom power: (bind & loose) vs 4
Taken from Israel given to the church: Matt 21:43 to Peter, the apostles, and their successors. Matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Peter, and the apostles, and their successors sent by Christ!
Matt 28:19 Jn 13:20 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

The RCC is corrupt and has been for a Millenia.

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theefaith said:

We have been over this ground before

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

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Disgusting how you equate the prophecy and authority of God’s Son with a group of mortals (called the corrupt Roman Catholic Church)

Wrangler said:

Disgusting how you equate the prophecy and authority of God’s Son with a group of mortals (called the corrupt Roman Catholic Church)

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Christ and the Bible does
They are his apostles and his people

I will be there God, and they will be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be theirGod, and they shall be my people.

Communion of the Saints!

Communion with of all members of Christ!

1 Corinthians 10:16
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 2:19
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Galatians 6:10
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Called to be Saints!

Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Holy Nation!

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Prayers for all the Saints!

Ephesians 6:18
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Glorified in His Saints!

2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

All the Saints are alive in Christ and pray for each other!

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Rev 5:7 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

theefaith said:

that never happened it’s only an accusation
Luther and the others has no authority to start new churches
There is no biblical mandate for any reformation
Divine revelation is from God and cannot be reformed

chirst alone has authority to found the church on Peter matt 16:18

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When one denies history one has serious problems.

Mandate for reformation! You know nothing of the history of Israel. There were numerous reformation because of corrupt practices in the temple system.
Even Jesus cleansed the temple.

Yes the church is founded on Jesus,but he left apostles to carry on his mission but with No instructions as to how to organise the churches they founded.

There is evidence in the NT for Christians to leave those who teach falsehood and it follows then to worship with others asking to follow the truth.

Windmillcharge said:

When one denies history one has serious problems.

Mandate for reformation! You know nothing of the history of Israel. There were numerous reformation because of corrupt practices in the temple system.
Even Jesus cleansed the temple.

Yes the church is founded on Jesus,but he left apostles to carry on his mission but with No instructions as to how to organise the churches they founded.

There is evidence in the NT for Christians to leave those who teach falsehood and it follows then to worship with others asking to follow the truth.

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Salvation by the shilling is a fraud
Indulgences have nothing to do with salvation or forgiveness of sins

the church is a perfect society founded by God, divine revelation is without reform or change eph 4:5 one faith Jude 1:3

Outside the one true church there is no salvation no sacrifice of the mass or sacraments so you have no priesthood and no sacrifice and no possible worship!

One United Methodist Church I pastored in western New York experienced signs and wonders more spectacular than any in the churches of the Book of Acts or in the Pentecostal/ Charismatic churches in which I was raised. Sadly, posters here like to stereotype on the basis of the worst exemplars. Ours is a time not to leave the UMC in its hour of greatest need, but to heed God's call to be salt and light in these churches so that those abandoned by their evangelical brethren don't get their faith corrupted by liberals. Remember, in all the global UMC conferences, their conservatives win votes on gender issues, thus provoking the current schism. Back in the 1800s the Methodist revival was so far-reaching that by 1870 40% of all Americans were Methodist!

theefaith said:

Evidence there is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles
One:
Holy:
Catholic:
And apostolic:
Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16 Ehs 2:20

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The Eastern Orthodox and Russian Orthodox churches disagree with your church. They claim much of the same authority that The Catholic Church claims.

If your church can't even unite with the Orhtodox, being so similar in your teachings, how do you expect to influence Protestants to join your church?

You've had many centuries to get together and it hasn't happened.

The problem is this: both church organizations worship a physical object, the wafer and wine. That's not God.

Berserk said:

One United Methodist Church I pastored in western New York experienced signs and wonders more spectacular than any in the churches of the Book of Acts or in the Pentecostal/ Charismatic churches in which I was raised. Sadly, posters here like to stereotype on the basis of the worst exemplars. Ours is a time not to leave the UMC in its hour of greatest need, but to heed God's call to be salt and light in these churches so that those abandoned by their evangelical brethren don't get their faith corrupted by liberals. Remember, in all the global UMC conferences, their conservatives win votes on gender issues, thus provoking the current schism. Back in the 1800s the Methodist revival was so far-reaching that by 1870 40% of all Americans were Methodist!

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heretics!