Once Saved Always Saved

Ferris Bueller · May 12, 2021

Tong2020 said:
I did not say it proves anything except that those in v.22, Jesus will say to them “I NEVER KNEW YOU”. If you can’t see what Jesus was saying there, or does not understand what “NEVER” means, or perhaps what “KNEW” means, is something I think only the Holy Spirit can do something about.

Tong
R3233

'Never' is not the point in contention. As I pointed out in another post, the contention lies in who he was talking to, and which Biblical use of 'knowing' Jesus was using. Were these a particular group of people who never knew him (see the parallel passage in Luke 13:25-27)? And was he referring to Jesus not knowing them intimately, and so they never matured and fell away, or not knowing them in salvation and so were never saved? See, it's not as cut and dry as Osas makes it out to be. It's a mistake to jump to the conclusion that Jesus was writing hard and fast doctrine about every single person who is associated with him in some way, but who does not live for him. Same goes for 1 John 2:19.

Wrangler · May 12, 2021

Tong2020 said:
So in other words you are saying in effect that we are saved by works, is that right?

Absolutely not! Work <> Works. What part of this do you not get?

Wrangler · May 12, 2021

Tong2020 said:
<<<what purpose does the Great Commission serve?>>>

It’s so that the lost sheep who are scattered will hear the gospel of the Shepherd.

Hearing is an action, a verb; work, it is. And this denial of necessary action on our part is at the heart of OSAS.

marks · May 12, 2021

Wrangler said:
Hearing is an action, a verb; work, it is. And this denial of necessary action on our part is at the heart of OSAS.

That's not the heart, though.

What you are saying amounts to this, that what we gain by grace we can lose by works. At the heart of OSAS is this, that what we gain by grace remains by grace.

Much love!

Taken · May 12, 2021

Corlove13 said:
It seems you are, as one has written, parylized by your meaning of grace.

Perhaps you could QUOTE me giving my "meaning of grace"... (before you decide I what I believe).

GRACE ambassador · May 12, 2021

Corlove13 said: ↑

It seems you are, as one has written, parylized by your meaning of grace.

Taken said:

Perhaps you could QUOTE me giving my "meaning of grace"... (before you decide I what I believe).

Click to expand...

Now that is great = osas MUST Be True, Because:

"God Has me Eternally PARALYZED IN HIS Amazing GRACE!!!" Amen!

Wrangler · May 12, 2021

marks said:
That's not the heart, though.

What you are saying amounts to this, that what we gain by grace we can lose by works

No. Work. Works. Not the same. What do you not understand about this?

No one gets grace without first doing the pre-requisite internal work. No one. Not even Jesus got the Holy Spirit until after he took action, to go to the Immerser and get immersed.

This prerequisite work is not a one and done event either. The idea of being forgiven for sins not yet committed goes against many Scripture verses. The biggest is Jesus telling people to ‘go and sin no more.’

Why would he say that and Matthew 7:21 if action, work, were not required to get to heaven?

marks · May 12, 2021

Wrangler said:
No. Work. Works. Not the same. What do you not understand about this?

I think I understand it pretty good.

How is it that you think that your sin from yesterday is forgiven - or is it? - and tomorrow's sin is not?

Happy is the man to whom the Lord does not impute sin. Of whom does this speak?

Much love!

marks · May 12, 2021

Wrangler said:
Why would he say that and Matthew 7:21 if action, work, were not required to get to heaven?

Matthew 7:21 KJV
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

You must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven. Calling Jesus your Lord, if you don't have that birthed relationship, won't cut it.

Matthew 7:23 KJV
23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That would be the reality. They said Lord, Lord, but Jesus never knew them.

What is God's will? "This is My Son, hear Him." And what says the Son? Two commandments, trust Jesus, and love others.

Much love!

marks · May 12, 2021

Wrangler said:
This prerequisite work is not a one and done event either. The idea of being forgiven for sins not yet committed goes against many Scripture verses. The biggest is Jesus telling people to ‘go and sin no more.’

So then it sounds like you are saying here, "Stop sinning, and, if you do, you can be saved." Is that right?

Much love!

Wrangler · May 12, 2021

marks said:
How is it that you think that your sin from yesterday is forgiven - or is it? - and tomorrow's sin is not?

Action. Needed. Denying. The heart of OSAS.

BloodBought 1953 · May 12, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
I think you forgot who you're addressing, lol.

I know EXACTLY who I am addressing.....and you know why....

BloodBought 1953 · May 12, 2021

Corlove13 said:
Exactly " your doctrine "
But what is the will of God?

That everyone who looks to the son and believes will have life and be raised on the last day.

First one must be born from above
Can't count the eggs until they are hatched
That is why you only see Justification...
But Justification is not the same as regeneration......

One must first be born again

If you start with Justification you are also viewing it as [salvation]

But here are 2 scriptures that show the flow

Gal 2:16
Eph 1:13

So before anything else one has to Believe in Jesus....He was the one told of before hand.

He asked Peter who He was.....and Peter said the Son of the Living God...

Flesh and blood did not reveal that to Him ...but Jesus's father.
And He told Peter upon this Rock I shall build my church and the gates of hell shall not
Prevail against it .

SO AGAIN THE FOUNDATION IS JESUS

NOT SOMETHING HE DID TO SECURE YOU
SO YOU CAN HAVE HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE.....even that is part of it.

Therefore...look Eph 1;13 in who the good news is.......and you will see how you are teaching what is in Him before teaching people to trust Him as King, creator, Son of God, Lord of all Lords..........

Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom
that it's available now to anyone who puts their trust in Him.

Think about what happens in a kingdom
You can go to the king and He can grant you forgiveness.

you said your doctrine was about blood
Here is an analogy.....

No one wants to be used just for what they can give you..(substitute blood in that equation]
It's about having establishing a relationship that will then be ungoing....

What wife wants to be touched....Without being related to in a special way?

I am talking about what Saves a man—-2 things to be exact....

#1 Christ’s Blood

#2 Faith in #1

Ferris Bueller · May 12, 2021

Blood Bought 1953 said:
I know EXACTLY who I am addressing.....and you know why....

No, you have me confused with someone else, because this is what I believe.......

The moment a believer sins it is covered by the blood. The sin of the unbeliever, or the sin of one who has stopped believing is the sin that the blood does not cover. They need to get saved (if the door is still open for them to do that). That's the person who needs to repent in order to be saved. There's nothing lucky about that. They either change their mind about their sin and receive God's grace for salvation, or they don't.

GRACE ambassador · May 12, 2021

marks said:
Matthew 7:23 KJV
23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That would be the reality. They said Lord, Lord, but Jesus never knew them.

Yes, and Combine That Reality With THIS {SURE Foundation!} Reality:
CHRIST Has ALWAYS "Known" them who Are HIS OWN!
(2 Timothy 2 : 19 and Ephesians 1 : 4-6 KJB!), then ONLY

ONE QUESTION Remains:

WHERE, In Scripture, Is their middle-of-the-road/fence LOSING salvation doctrine
that says: "Christ ONCE knew, but NOW, He NO LONGER knows you"?
IMPOSSIBLE, Correct?

marks · May 12, 2021

GRACE ambassador said:
Yes, and Combine That Reality With THIS {SURE Foundation!} Reality:
CHRIST Has ALWAYS "Known" them who Are HIS OWN!
(2 Timothy 2 : 19 and Ephesians 1 : 4-6 KJB!), then ONLY

ONE QUESTION Remains:

WHERE, In Scripture, Is their middle-of-the-road/fence LOSING salvation doctrine
that says: "Christ ONCE knew, but NOW, He NO LONGER knows you"?
IMPOSSIBLE, Correct?

God always knew all the failures we'd experience, and He STILL is not ashamed to call us His family! I think some see God as being shallow like them.

Much love!

BloodBought 1953 · May 12, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
No, you have me confused with someone else, because this is what I believe.......

The moment a believer sins it is covered by the blood. The sin of the unbeliever, or the sin of one who has stopped believing is the sin that the blood does not cover. They need to get saved (if the door is still open for them to do that). That's the person who needs to repent in order to be saved. There's nothing lucky about that. They either change their mind about their sin and receive God's grace for salvation, or they don't.

Let’s try this one more time ...we are not on the same page.....what you are talking about is not what I call “Lucky Repentance” ....let me try to illustrate it for the Fiftieth time:

Two men driving down the Highway......both are great guys...they’ve dotted ALL of the “ I’s”, crossed ALL of the “ T’s “ ——- Born Again, Saved, Baptized , Spirit-Filled, every sin they ever committed was Repented Of and Please, if I have left anything out , throw “ that” in there also....

They are driving down the road and some beautiful girls are holding placards advertising a topless car- wash and they are not leaving much to the imagination, if you know what I mean...Both men have lustful thoughts as they encounter this scene —- and I mean “REALLY” Lustful !

Well, as fortune would have it, they both have sudden heart- attacks! They die instantly. One Of The guys had the “ luck” to utter a little prayer of guilty, sorrow, and repentance right before he died .The other guy had no such luck—- he just died.

Now we “ know” the Man with the timely fortune to Repent went to Heaven.But what about the other guy? What happened to him? Some say he was damned because there was Unrepentant Sin on his record.....what say you? Your answer will let me know if you believe in “ Lucky Repentance” or not...

So just give me a one- word answer.....where is the second guy—- Heaven or Hell ?

The Parson · May 12, 2021

Well, once saved, always saved (OSAS) does mean what it says, and says what it means!!! I don't know about you, but I have eternal security. If I thought for one second that I could loose the salvation that I was given, that by the way belongs to God, I'd either give up, or be a total nervous wreck. Why??? Well it's because I can't keep myself saved, it's the holy seal of God!!! God keeps me saved by the precious Blood of my Savior... That is something that even Ajax can't was off...

kcnalp · May 12, 2021

Tong2020 said:
I did not say it proves anything except that those in v.22, Jesus will say to them “I NEVER KNEW YOU”. If you can’t see what Jesus was saying there, or does not understand what “NEVER” means, or perhaps what “KNEW” means, is something I think only the Holy Spirit can do something about.

Tong
R3233

So your Jesus never knew them?
My Jesus knows everything!

Ferris Bueller · May 12, 2021

Blood Bought 1953 said:
Let’s try this one more time ...we are not on the same page.....what you are talking about is not what I call “Lucky Repentance” ....let me try to illustrate it for the Fiftieth time:

Two men driving down the Highway......both are great guys...they’ve dotted ALL of the “ I’s”, crossed ALL of the “ T’s “ ——- Born Again, Saved, Baptized , Spirit-Filled, every sin they ever committed was Repented Of and Please, if I have left anything out , throw “ that” in there also....

They are driving down the road and some beautiful girls are holding placards advertising a topless car- wash and they are not leaving much to the imagination, if you know what I mean...Both men have lustful thoughts as they encounter this scene —- and I mean “REALLY” Lustful !

Well, as fortune would have it, they both have sudden heart- attacks! They die instantly. One Of The guys had the “ luck” to utter a little prayer of guilty, sorrow, and repentance right before he died .The other guy had no such luck—- he just died.

Now we “ know” the Man with the timely fortune to Repent went to Heaven.But what about the other guy? What happened to him? Some say he was damned because there was Unrepentant Sin on his record.....what say you? Your answer will let me know if you believe in “ Lucky Repentance” or not...

So just give me a one- word answer.....where is the second guy—- Heaven or Hell ?

Heaven (Temptation is not a sin)

Now, what if they had went way past temptation and stopped and gleefully took it all in? Same answer......heaven. You mentioned nothing about them being in a state of unbelief, so as stupid and as weak as they may have been by stopping, they are not sinning as the result of unbelief but because of weakness. So off to heaven the angels carried both of them when they died. Christ remained faithful even though they were faithless (2 Timothy 2:13).

See, you and I both agree that Hebrews 10:26 is talking about unbelievers. The difference between you and I is I say the willfully sinning Christ rejecter of Hebrews 10:26 used to believe. Now he doesn't. Now he sins willfully because he doesn't care about the forgiveness of sin he had received in Christ. He has no sacrifice remaining to cover the sinning he has chosen to go back to in his unbelief. Now all he has left to look forward to is his destruction when Jesus comes back. He no longer has the blood of Christ to protect him from the wrath of God. He forsook that and went back to his sin in unbelief. They denied Christ so Christ will deny them (2 Timothy 2:12).

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