Proof that Jesus is God

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keithr

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What the people saw was Jesus, in whom dwelt the INVISIBLE God, in the form of man.

God IN Christ.
John 14:23) Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.
John 14:20) In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
Colossians 1:27) to whom God was pleased to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory;

So God and Jesus are in us (if we love Jesus and obey his instructions). That does not mean that we are God, or that we are Jesus. God's spirit in or on somebody, does not make them God. Neither does it make Jesus God.
 

Wrangler

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I certainly do! My mother tells people all the time not to worry about moving a big piece of furniture out of their house. She says, don’t worry, I can help you get it out. Then, because I have a truck and am able bodied, she tells me I must go move such and such out of someone’s house!

The mother says she will take care of it, the daughter actually does it.

There is a lot of this in the Bible. Person X does things through Person or Thing Y. For instance, God humbled Pharaoh indirectly via the 10 Plaques. Your mother does things through you.

In another thread, 2 poster's took a deep dive in who does things: God or the angels or prophets. Talking through the burning bush and laying waste to Sodom and Gomorrah were 2 specific examples. In short, agents of God do things at God's command. We say God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah even though an angel actually did the deed. It's just that the deed was done at God's direction.

I see the statement by Jesus about the temple in the same figurative way. By contrast Acts 17:31 & Acts 13:32-33 are explicit in that God actually raised Jesus from the dead (as opposed to Jesus himself). Like Sodom and Gomorrah, we have reason to believe it was not actually God but angels who actually raised the lifeless corpse to a glorified body - at God's command. I say this because the Apostles found angels at the empty tomb saying he is risen. Either way, the explicit text Acts 17:31 & Acts 13:32-33 is that God did the acting and Jesus was acted upon. Subjects and objects of sentences are not one in the same and neither are God and Jesus.
 

Cooper

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There is a lot of this in the Bible. Person X does things through Person or Thing Y. For instance, God humbled Pharaoh indirectly via the 10 Plaques. Your mother does things through you.

In another thread, 2 poster's took a deep dive in who does things: God or the angels or prophets. Talking through the burning bush and laying waste to Sodom and Gomorrah were 2 specific examples. In short, agents of God do things at God's command. We say God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah even though an angel actually did the deed. It's just that the deed was done at God's direction.

I see the statement by Jesus about the temple in the same figurative way. By contrast Acts 17:31 & Acts 13:32-33 are explicit in that God actually raised Jesus from the dead (as opposed to Jesus himself). Like Sodom and Gomorrah, we have reason to believe it was not actually God but angels who actually raised the lifeless corpse to a glorified body - at God's command. I say this because the Apostles found angels at the empty tomb saying he is risen. Either way, the explicit text Acts 17:31 & Acts 13:32-33 is that God did the acting and Jesus was acted upon. Subjects and objects of sentences are not one in the same and neither are God and Jesus.
What church do you belong to?
.
 

theQuestioneer

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No. The true God is the Father in 1 John 5:20. Compare to John John 17:3.
The idolatry is what you are advancing; that there is any God besides Jesus’ God. See Ephesians 1:2

You want me to misquote other scriptures, since you ignore Jesus that his Father is the ONLY true God?
John 5:44- How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

How many different definitions do you have for "only"?
 

stunnedbygrace

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The Father in Christ, and Christ in the Father, are two persons of the Godhead.

This you deny. We are NOT on the same page. To deny one is to deny the other. Whoever does that is Godless.
.

Be careful though. You have not seen for any reason other than that God showed you. If He has not showed them that yet, pray Him to let them see. After I first received the down payment I watched that movie, The Passion of the Christ. I actually said to God in distraught tears that I thought He was cruel and could have found a better way. I said I would speak to Jesus only but not to Him. You can imagine my shock when He soon after showed me that Jesus WAS God!

My point is that I had already received the down payment of the Spirit when I did not know that.
 

theQuestioneer

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There were men who couldn’t accept it just like there are men today who can’t accept it.

The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning You for a good work, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”

So, the Pharisees were stoning him for telling the TRUTH?
 

Wrangler

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What church do you belong to?

The church that protects me from being attacked instead of the argument.

You want me to misquote other scriptures, since you ignore Jesus that his Father is the ONLY true God?

Although what you wrote is not proper English, I think we are saying the same thing; that John 17:3 shows Jesus stating that his Father is the ONLY true God.

all who receive Me will experience everlasting life, a new intimate relationship with You (the one True God) and Jesus the Anointed (the One You have sent).
John 17:3 (VOICE)


This text has to be read for what it is, separating the one True God (the Father) from Jesus (who the one True God sent). That is, John 17:3 does not read, "You, (the Father) are the one true God who is incarnated as Jesus."
 
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stunnedbygrace

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There is a lot of this in the Bible. Person X does things through Person or Thing Y. For instance, God humbled Pharaoh indirectly via the 10 Plaques. Your mother does things through you.

In another thread, 2 poster's took a deep dive in who does things: God or the angels or prophets. Talking through the burning bush and laying waste to Sodom and Gomorrah were 2 specific examples. In short, agents of God do things at God's command. We say God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah even though an angel actually did the deed. It's just that the deed was done at God's direction.

I see the statement by Jesus about the temple in the same figurative way. By contrast Acts 17:31 & Acts 13:32-33 are explicit in that God actually raised Jesus from the dead (as opposed to Jesus himself). Like Sodom and Gomorrah, we have reason to believe it was not actually God but angels who actually raised the lifeless corpse to a glorified body - at God's command. I say this because the Apostles found angels at the empty tomb saying he is risen. Either way, the explicit text Acts 17:31 & Acts 13:32-33 is that God did the acting and Jesus was acted upon. Subjects and objects of sentences are not one in the same and neither are God and Jesus.

Ah, no, you can’t explain away the verses that don’t fit your understanding. They must fit together seamlessly, not war with one another. It is our understanding that must change, otherwise we will forever be asking, well which of these is true...Did John have it wrong or did this other writer have it wrong?? Will you also say John spoke figuratively when he said, No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

There are so many verses. I have only given 2 of them here. You can’t explain them away.

You are insisting on the verses fitting your understanding. That isn’t how our mind is renewed.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Yes, at the questioner!
He was telling the truth and they could not accept it, so, yes, they sought to stone Him for telling the truth!
 

Wrangler

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If He has not showed them that yet, pray Him to let them see.

The thread is about proof. Since there is no proof - and apologists must rely on mysticism - you all should just admit there is no Scriptural proof.

I've repeatedly pointed out the most significant proof is what is absent from 66 books; the most significant proof that Jesus is not God is that the trinity is not in the Bible. No where does it say anything like trinitarians assert, The nature of God is trinitarian - consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved. It's so important, it is not mentioned once in 66 books?!

What the Holy Spirit of God has shown me in his Word in Scripture, is unitarian text written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day. Even the resurrected Jesus talked about his God in John 20:17 and Revelations 3. But instead, you embrace the 4th century man-made doctrine.


And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition.
Mark 7:13
 

stunnedbygrace

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LOL That's what everyone does.

Yes, it IS what most of us do, and we do it to fit our current understanding. We go to war pitting the verses against each other. They must fit together. They MUST. The Word, when He became a human, had a robe that was seamless. To tear it apart so each could have a piece would have ruined it. It was seamless.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Scripture does fit together seamlessly - once you jettison the trinity, stop imposing trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text.

Yes, my own mind can’t grasp it either. My own mind can only grasp, at most, a...binity? Because God is Spirit. So to me, to say God is Spirit and the Spirit is spirit are to say...the same thing. I can grasp it that when God took on a human form, He...ah, well, I can grasp a binity anyway. But honestly, I can’t even really do that either, lol! To me, God is God, He is spirit, and Jesus was God. Talk about stooping down to help someone, man oh man...
 
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Cooper

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Be careful though. You have not seen for any reason other than that God showed you. If He has not showed them that yet, pray Him to let them see. After I first received the down payment I watched that movie, The Passion of the Christ. I actually said to God in distraught tears that I thought He was cruel and could have found a better way. I said I would speak to Jesus only but not to Him. You can imagine my shock when He soon after showed me that Jesus WAS God!

My point is that I had already received the down payment of the Spirit when I did not know that.
I don't know what you mean.
.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I don't know what you mean.
.

I mean, I did not know yet, after receiving a down payment of the Holy Spirit, that Jesus WAS God. So I was not godless, without God at the time. He just hadn’t shown me yet.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I mean, I did not know yet, after receiving a down payment of the Holy Spirit, that Jesus WAS God. So I was not godless, without God at the time. He just hadn’t shown me yet.

So be careful, you might be calling godless someone who is just not seeing yet that Jesus was and is God.
 

Wrangler

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Yes, it IS what most of us do, and we do it to fit our current understanding. We go to war pitting the verses against each other. They must fit together. They MUST.

Hmmm. In the book When Jesus Became God, the author Rubenstein details how politically motivated even compiling Scripture was. For instance, there is very credible evidence that Matthew 28:19 was not in the original manuscripts but was a 4th century trinitarian corruption. Have you ever looked into that? See Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord.

That verse always seemed out of place to me. While it appears important, Jesus never mentioned it in his life time, only when he was about to ascend to heaven - and then gives no clarification.

Some years ago I became aware that there is not 'one' Bible. EOC (77) > RCC (73) > Protestants (66). (The number in parenthesis is the number of books each denomination holds as part of the word of God.) Up until then, I thought there was universal agreement on what the word of God even was. While I don't know all the details of this, I find the topic fascinating.

Since the 3 denominations hold different doctrines, you might imagine how they reconcile verses that MUST fit together by excluding or including what fits their doctrine, right?
 
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