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marksman

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Paul says things like denominations is division in the body of Christ. Being nondenominational I am neither Catholic or Protestant, I am biblical.

what say you?

The church today is in the mess it is in because it chooses to ignore what the scriptures teaches us. I have spoken to denominational leaders and in every case when I presented what the scriptures say about church life they all said yes but....

What that says to me is that the Bible has all we need to know but it is subservient to denominational teaching and demands. To put it another way, OUR CHURCH takes president over HIS CHURCH.

What they don't want to know is that Jesus said he would build HIS church not ours. That means that any church is only as good as the bloke running it. If he ain't much good neither is the church. I guess that is why so many churches are doing nothing more than maintaing the status quo because the guy at the top has run out of ideas or he doesn't want to rock the boat in case the money stops coming in.

I am convinced that in so many churches, the Holy Spirit is standing at the door waiting to be invited in but he walks away in the end because no invitation is forthcoming. Who needs the Holy Spirit when we have a programme that is infallible. I mean we have been doing things like this for 50 years so why change it?

Having been part of a church that invited the Holy Spirit in every meeting, I can tell you now what I would consider to be the best of the best. And it ain't maintaining the status quo.
 

amadeus

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Paul says things like denominations is division in the body of Christ. Being nondenominational I am neither Catholic or Protestant, I am biblical.

what say you?

"And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." Luke 9:54-56


"Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence." Matt 19:13-15

"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
For he that is not against us is on our part." Mark 9:38-40

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." I Cor 11:1

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19
 

BreadOfLife

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Paul says things like denominations is division in the body of Christ. Being nondenominational I am neither Catholic or Protestant, I am biblical.

what say you?
If you're a non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Christian - you are a Protestant, by definition.
Protestants who reject the term, "Protestant" are simply revisionists.

This is not a condemnation of Protestants - just a fact.
 
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Mungo

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Paul says things like denominations is division in the body of Christ. Being nondenominational I am neither Catholic or Protestant, I am biblical.

what say you?
Non-denominational is a denomination of one.
 

The Parson

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If you're a non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Christian - you are a Protestant, by definition.
Protestants who reject the term, "Protestant" are simply revisionists.

This is not a condemnation of Protestants - just a fact.
Oh, now that's just plumb silly. Your own cardinal Stanislaus Hosius (1504 - 1579) was president of the Council of Trent, which sent more non catholic or never were catholic Baptists to be burned at the stake than any other evil movement in history said this:
Stanislaus Hosius said:
"If the truth of religion were to be judged by the readiness and cheerfulness which a man of any sect shows in suffering, the opinions and persuasions of no sect can be truer or surer than those of the Anabaptists, whence there have been none for these twelve hundred years past that have been more grievously punished, or that have more cheerfully and steadfastly undergone and even offered themselves to the most cruel sorts of punishment than these people."

(Henry) Heinrich Bullinger, also a Swiss Reformer (1504 -1575), was one who hated the Baptists with a passion and, yet charted our history well in his writings

Heinrich Bullinger said:
"Now, I think it not labour lost to speak somewhat of anabaptism. In the time that Decius and Gallus Caesar were Emperors, there arose a question in the parts of Africa of rebaptising heretics; and St. Cyprian, and the rest of the Bishops, being assembled together in the council of Carthage, liked well of anabaptism.
  • Decius (201 A.D. to 251 A.D.) and was the first Roman Emperor to launch an organized persecution against Christians.
  • Gallus Caesar (Gallerius) lived from about (201 A.D. to 311 A.D.) and was responsible for starting the persecution against Christians in 303 A.D.
  • Saint Cyprian of Carthage, (230 A.D. ? to ? A.D.) was a famous Roman Catholic bishop & great orator of his day.

J. Cardinal Gibbons, Primate of the Roman Catholic Church in America, Patrick J. Healy, D.D., Catholic University of America; Theodore Roosevelt, LL.D., Associate Editor of, "The Outlook" and a former President of the United States of America; and several other distinguished scholars served as contributors to the book entitled Crossing the Centuries, copyrighted in 1912. This highly educated group of scholars gave the histories of various religious denominations in North America at that time. About the Baptists this book states:
"Of the Baptists it may be said that they are not reformers. These people, comprising bodies of Christian believers known under various names in different countries, are entirely distinct and independent of the Roman and Greek churches, have had an unbroken continuity of existence from Apostolic days down through the centuries. Throughout this long period they were bitterly persecuted for heresy, driven from country to country, disfranchised, deprived of their property, imprisoned, tortured and slain by the thousands, yet they swerved not from their New Testament Faith, Doctrine and Adherence."
"The extreme conditions of the Reformation served to develop an organized denominational unity among the Baptists in Switzerland in 1523, which extended into Germany, then spread to Holland and other countries of Europe, also to England and Wales. The Baptist church of modern times may properly claim its "organized" denominational activities as beginning with the Switzerland movement."
No my friend, that statement about being catholic or protestant is in error...
 
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Taodeching

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Paul says things like denominations is division in the body of Christ. Being nondenominational I am neither Catholic or Protestant, I am biblical.

what say you?

I say Paul never said that you put that interpretation on what Paul said. Whether you like it or not if you protest the Catholic Church you are a Protestant, that is what Protestant means. Non-denominational is still a denomination of your own group. The only way you can get away from denominations is to become either Catholic or Orthodox which are not denominations. Denominations and non-denominational started with Protestantism their was nothing like denominations before Protestantism that started in the 1500's.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Oh, now that's just plumb silly. Your own cardinal Stanislaus Hosius (1504 - 1579) was president of the Council of Trent, which sent more non catholic or never were catholic Baptists to be burned at the stake than any other evil movement in history said this:

(Henry) Heinrich Bullinger, also a Swiss Reformer (1504 -1575), was one who hated the Baptists with a passion and, yet charted our history well in his writings
  • Decius (201 A.D. to 251 A.D.) and was the first Roman Emperor to launch an organized persecution against Christians.
  • Gallus Caesar (Gallerius) lived from about (201 A.D. to 311 A.D.) and was responsible for starting the persecution against Christians in 303 A.D.
  • Saint Cyprian of Carthage, (230 A.D. ? to ? A.D.) was a famous Roman Catholic bishop & great orator of his day.

J. Cardinal Gibbons, Primate of the Roman Catholic Church in America, Patrick J. Healy, D.D., Catholic University of America; Theodore Roosevelt, LL.D., Associate Editor of, "The Outlook" and a former President of the United States of America; and several other distinguished scholars served as contributors to the book entitled Crossing the Centuries, copyrighted in 1912. This highly educated group of scholars gave the histories of various religious denominations in North America at that time. About the Baptists this book states:

No my friend, that statement about being catholic or protestant is in error...
Your personal opinions regarding Cardinal Stanislaus Hosius aside - NONE of your rant disproves what I stated.
A Protestant by definition is a non-Catholic, Non-Orthodox Christian.
Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary
Definition of protestant

prot·es·tant | \ ˈprä-tə-stənt
a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of
justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth
broadly: a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church


And, by the way - Hosius was one of FIVE Papal legates who presided over the Council of Trent.
 

marksman

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I say Paul never said that you put that interpretation on what Paul said. Whether you like it or not if you protest the Catholic Church you are a Protestant, that is what Protestant means. Non-denominational is still a denomination of your own group. The only way you can get away from denominations is to become either Catholic or Orthodox which are not denominations. Denominations and non-denominational started with Protestantism their was nothing like denominations before Protestantism that started in the 1500's.
So you haven't read about all the splits in the catholic church?
 
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Josho

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Paul says things like denominations is division in the body of Christ. Being nondenominational I am neither Catholic or Protestant, I am biblical.

what say you?

I am a Christian, there's no reason to protest against Catholicism, they are one of us (Christians) also. We as Christians should be one united in Christ.
 

The Parson

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Your personal opinions regarding Cardinal Stanislaus Hosius aside - NONE of your rant disproves what I stated.
A Protestant by definition is a non-Catholic, Non-Orthodox Christian.
Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary
Definition of protestant

prot·es·tant | \ ˈprä-tə-stənt
a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of
justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth
broadly: a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church


And, by the way - Hosius was one of FIVE Papal legates who presided over the Council of Trent.
And your point is???
 

The Parson

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I am a Christian, there's no reason to protest against Catholicism, they are one of us (Christians) also. We as Christians should be one united in Christ.
That's true, there are a few Christians in the catholic church. The Bible says so:::
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
 

BreadOfLife

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That's true, there are a few Christians in the catholic church. The Bible says so:::
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
More ignorance . . .
 

Taodeching

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So you haven't read about all the splits in the catholic church?

There are no split, unless you count Luther. There are different rites which are not splits. For some strange reason Protestants just really don't understand the Catholic Church only has the Roman or Latin rite but there are many like the Armenian, Assyrian, Greek, Anglican, Eastern rites and many others but under one roof of the Catholic Church.

That's why when Protestants say RCC it is quite an insult to them and not the right way to refer to the Catholic Church. Saying RCC is equivalent to saying "A bunch of dumb prots" when referring to Protestants
 

marksman

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There are no split, unless you count Luther. There are different rites which are not splits. For some strange reason Protestants just really don't understand the Catholic Church only has the Roman or Latin rite but there are many like the Armenian, Assyrian, Greek, Anglican, Eastern rites and many others but under one roof of the Catholic Church.

That's why when Protestants say RCC it is quite an insult to them and not the right way to refer to the Catholic Church. Saying RCC is equivalent to saying "A bunch of dumb prots" when referring to Protestants

Having served the catholic church when I worked in their education system I know what I am talkikng about.
 

Taodeching

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Having served the catholic church when I worked in their education system I know what I am talkikng about.

You forgot much and let bias interfere with your thinking, at one time you may have thought you knew what your talking about but you don't. I can serve gas into my vehicle, that doesn't mean I am an expert on gasoline
 

Grams

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I was for some 50 years Catholic,,,,,,,, but the church I went to just used prayer books.
And one day my son wanted to go to church and looked up in the phone book for a bible church and that is
were we all go now....
 
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theefaith

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Paul says things like denominations is division in the body of Christ. Being nondenominational I am neither Catholic or Protestant, I am biblical.

what say you?



There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The nature of the church!

Jesus is one with His church!
Acts 9:4 Saul, Saul why do you persecute me? Saul was persecuting the church!

Seek first the kingdom of God, seek ye first the church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!

Matthew 13:44
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Jesus Christ is the treasure and the field is His Holy church!

The holy church is necessary for salvation!

The church is not a democracy, it is a kingdom, with a king!

Four marks (characteristics) of the true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles!

One:
Holy:
Catholic:
Apostolic:

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.





The authority of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Only one true church founded by Jesus christ! Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16


Jn 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4
Why persecute thou me?


Error
All members / believers are the church, only Peter and the apostles have authority, and power to bind and loose, to teach, govern and administer and discipline the church!

Must be in the new covenant, by union with the mediator we are in communion with each other and God!

Nature of the church is found in a
Hierarchy, thru the ordained ministerial priesthood of Melchezedek, not the royal priesthood of believers!
Vicarious nature of Christ continuing His mission and ministry in the church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and jurisdictional authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20



Unity of the church

Obedience to Christ and His church

Necessity of the church for salvation

3 fold office of the church

Who founded the church

What are the four marks of the true church?


Heresy
“The Invisible Body of Believers.”

Body of Christ
Church a sign and means of grace

Only way to God is thru salvation in Jesus Christ, the only way to Christ is they His church!

pearl of great price in the church

Many are called few are chosen Matt 22:14

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

The church and Jesus Christ are one Union: Acts 9

Initiation into the new covenant church:
Faith and baptism

Necessary for salvation:
Jesus Christ the savior

Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Successors)


Instructed by the church as by Christ:

Church possesses the infant treasury of Christ’s merits

Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Saul Saul why does Thou persecute me?
Saul was persecuting the church, and therefore Christ! Jesus Christ and His church are one! Jesus Christ continues the work of redemption and the life of grace by His holy church!

Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.

20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?

22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

Christ and His church are one and necessary for salvation!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 Jn 21:17 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ founded the one true church not men:
Matt 16:18, 18:18
Founded on the O.T. Prophets and the apostles, Eph 2:20 of which Peter is the first and the head: Matt 10:2

Christ is the only mediator of the new covenant church, 1 Tim 2:5 Christ is the head of the church the body of Christ, eph 5:23 Peter is the head of the church on earth until Christ returns. Matt 16:18 Jn 21:17

Set down in groups of fifty: Mk 6:40 And they sat down in ranks, by hundreds, and by fifties. Represents Apostles / bishops authority in the church.

Jesus Christ founded His church on Peter and the apostles and their successors:
Jesus and His church are one:

The church is necessary for salvation: