Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

Eternally Grateful · May 19, 2021

kcnalp said:
James 2:14-26 (NKJV)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Yes, The people James spoke of were hearers of the word not doers. They CLAIMED to have faith. But their life did not show the byproduct of faith which all people who have true saving faith have, which is works. They become hearers as well as doers.

James is not telling them faith plus works saves in contradiction of paul. He is condemning the ones who claim they have faith. But do not show the changed life true faith brings about. and he called them out saying their faith was not real. dead. non existant.

Eternally Grateful · May 19, 2021

kcnalp said:
So you are without Christian works?

Where did he say he was without works?

Eternally Grateful · May 19, 2021

kcnalp said:
So your religion is a "works" religion too? Just shows how ridiculous OSAS is!

No.

He never said such a thing.

Salvation is one event which happens at a point of time. It is achieved by grace through faith.

Works are a part of sanctification. the fruit of salvation. Not the cause of salvation.

Eternal life is the promise of God. If you do not have eternal life. You are in serious trouble How can you have faith in God if you do not have eternal life? WHat you have is despair and a lifetime of working your hardest hoping to gain something you may ever get. Thats what NOSAS gets you

TheslightestID · May 19, 2021

JunChosen said:
Well, the thief on the cross stole all of his life, yet we see right before our eyes Jesus saves him! By the way, I'm not the guy who said we must do good and if not, we are condemned to hell. That was said by another.

Wrong, the theif got it, he understood, and that was good, and as with all forgiveness , it doesn't matter what we did in the past.

Just as in death bed confessions, of course Jesus would not expect the theif to do good, or anything else for thet matter...I guess Christ is much more intelligent than you are giving him credit for. Even atheists would have more sense than to expect someone who is about to be crucified to do good, it would be rediculous tonexpwct such a thing. I'm surprised OSAS still tries to use that that tire old deceptive twist. Would you also expect a paraplegic to get a job? Jesus wouldn't.

Its called an extenuating circumstance, and it's used even in our legal system.

JunChosen said:
is merely a principle and is speaking about Judgment Day

Right, that whole clear and very important scripture becomes comparatively meaningless because you say it does. Please.

The more this goes on, the more it shows, beyond any doubt, OSAS hasn't a leg to stand on.
.

Hidden In Him · May 19, 2021

Enoch111 said:
Those are the outcomes of forgiveness. There is a difference between basis and outcomes. I already showed you the basis, and you should have concurred totally.

Come on, Enoch. I think you're really reaching here.

The context suggests that to those who kept the Old Covenant properly, he removed their transgressions from them, and pitied them like a father does His children.

Psa 103:12, As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
Psa 103:13, Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
Psa 103:14, For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
Psa 103:15, As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
Psa 103:16, For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
Psa 103:17, But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
Psa 103:18, To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.

TheslightestID · May 19, 2021

Grailhunter said:
noticed you did not copy the whole thing so you could attempt to deceive again.

I didnt need to quote any more than I did. Now, tell me where I attempted to decieve? Another accusation you should prove, but like the last, you probably will not.

Grailhunter said:
Do I said that doing good is not a requirement for salvation.

You aren't paying attention, I know you said that, and I proved you wrong by showing you that doing good was necessary, as in:

And please read the following very carefully this time, as I will have a question for you:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

Question, If we do not do good, will we be condemned to hell, or go to heaven?

mailmandan · May 19, 2021

Eternally Grateful said:
Your issue is this is a descriptive passage not a prescriptive.

Gods people do good works. As a result of their salvation. Not to earn salvation..

Exactly right! I tried to tell him that as well, but he doesn't seem to have ears to hear.

It's so nice to see when others get it!

TheslightestID · May 19, 2021

Enoch111 said:
This is incorrect and contrary to the Gospel. Salvation (justification) is by grace through faith + NOTHING. Good works do follow. but they do not save. They offer

I guess you missed the following scripture, where it states doing good gets us to heaven, and doing evil gets us to hell....so simply put, it's undeniable to those who have not deluded themselves.

Here, I'll post it again, and after reading it please answer the question:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

Question, if we do not do good, will we go to heaven or be condemned to hell?

TheslightestID · May 19, 2021

Enoch111 said:
Not doing evil and doing good are a RESULT of salvation. Salvation includes repentance and the New Birth. And that leads to righteousness, holiness, and good works.

Notice how that is what men say, and how careful Jesus is not to state it as you have. Please do not add to his very simple and clear wording, as you have no idea how serious a mistake that is.

Jesus said if we do good we will go to heaven, period. And if we do evil, we will go to hell. If some of you wish to delude yourselves, that is up to you, but know, there is liable to be a very high price for trying to delude others.

TheslightestID · May 19, 2021

Eternally Grateful said:
It is either of grace or it is of works.

You just made that up, but I will still give you the oportuniy to show me where the bible states such a thing.

TheslightestID · May 19, 2021

Eternally Grateful said:
Actually no. Jesus words and yours are different.

Jesus did not tell us to earn our salvation. If we could earn it, he would not have had to die.

There you go, making things up again, where did I say we earn our salvation, and nothing more?

We do both faith and works for salvation.

justbyfaith · May 19, 2021

Enoch111 said:
I am not sure which ones you highlighted, but let's just go back to the Scriptures posted:

Psalm 103:18 -- Would be applicable to those under the Law of Moses (the Israelites and Jews). Thus "to keep His covenant" corresponds to Exodus 19:5: Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: It is obvious that this is addressed to Israel which was regarded by God as "above all people" and God's "peculiar treasure". These two passages do not address the basis for the forgiveness of sins.

John 15:12-14: Is clearly addressed to believers, who are required to keep (observe) the commandments of Christ. The primary commandment of Christ was for His people to love one another as He had loved them. And the Law of Christ is in fact the application of the Ten Commandments which were summed up in the two greatest commandments. Thus Romans 13:8-10 ties the Ten Commandments to the Law of Love -- that love is the fulfilling of the Law. But again these passages also do not the address the basis for the forgiveness (remission) of sins.

So on what grounds does God forgive sins and sinners? It is purely on the basis of Christ and His finished work of redemption: And He [Christ] took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the New Testament [Covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (Mt 26:27,28)

What are God's conditions for the application of the blood of Christ to the forgiveness of sins? Repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). Therefore this is what Christ said regarding the Gospel: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His [Christ's] name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) And therefore this is what Peter preached:
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 2:19)

Since believers are not exempt from sinning, the apostle John makes it clear that the confession of present sins (which implies repentance) is necessary for the forgiveness of sins (1 John 1 & 2). There are deceivers who try to suggest that these chapters are not addressed to Christians, but it should be obvious to any Christian that they are indeed addressed to "brethren".

In view of this, the title of this thread is PATENTLY FALSE and misleading: "Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord." This is not Christian theology. The poster should simply withdraw his thread.

First of all, @Enoch111, I want to say that I have a great deal of respect for you. When you post, you post sound doctrine more often than not and I also believe that you have a love for the people you are ministering to and desire for them to be saved and edified.

That being said, the title of the thread is not patently false, in light of the context of the whole of the OP.

Yes, it is most definitely true that we are forgiven through the blood of Jesus and that we are not justified by the works of the law.

However, those who have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus have also been sanctified by the blood of Jesus (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleansed from all sin (1 John 1:7).

So, will not a sanctified person be obedient to the word of the Lord?

What I meant by the title, if you will understand its context in the OP, was not that we are forgiven through keeping the commandments of the Lord; but that forgiveness is to those who will keep the commandments of the Lord; that is, those who are truly forgiven / born again, will keep the commandments of the Lord and if they don't keep them, it is a sign that they have not been forgiven / born again (see also 1 John 2:3-6).

I hope that clarifies things.

Sincerely yours,

@justbyfaith

TheslightestID · May 19, 2021

Eternally Grateful said:
Your issue is this is a descriptive passage not a prescriptive.

Gods people do good works. As a result of their salvation. Not to earn salvation.

Those not born of God have no works. Their works are evil. because even when they do a good deed. It is of the flesh which is sin.

John tells us those born of God can not sin, Whoever sins has never seen or known God.

In the same token, Whoever sins is condemned. WHoever claims they have faith but has no works (a byproduct of faith) has no faith. (it is dead)

Paul said we are saved by GRACE through faith. If you have no faith (or it id dead) you have no salvation

We live a life if doing good, we go to heaven, we do evil we go to hell. I have provided scripture for you several times that states exactly that, but if you choose not to believe the bible, or God's way, that is up to you.

I understsnd that many have their heart set on being able to get away with sin, and how hard it must be to face the true fact that we simply cannot do that. So in he end, they will do as they like and pay the price.

Some just have a tough time accepting the true gospel and for those,
Satan has offered the easy gospel that you teach.....people love it, as does Satan, because it will win him many souls.

kcnalp · May 19, 2021

Eternally Grateful said:
Yes, The people James spoke of were hearers of the word not doers. They CLAIMED to have faith. But their life did not show the byproduct of faith which all people who have true saving faith have, which is works. They become hearers as well as doers.

James is not telling them faith plus works saves in contradiction of paul. He is condemning the ones who claim they have faith. But do not show the changed life true faith brings about. and he called them out saying their faith was not real. dead. non existant.

If you don't have Christian "works" you're not a Christian.

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

kcnalp · May 19, 2021

Eternally Grateful said:
No.

He never said such a thing.

Salvation is one event which happens at a point of time. It is achieved by grace through faith.

Works are a part of sanctification. the fruit of salvation. Not the cause of salvation.

Eternal life is the promise of God. If you do not have eternal life. You are in serious trouble How can you have faith in God if you do not have eternal life? WHat you have is despair and a lifetime of working your hardest hoping to gain something you may ever get. Thats what NOSAS gets you

Christian Faith produces Christian works. If you don't have the works you're not a Christian.

kcnalp · May 19, 2021

Eternally Grateful said:
No.

He never said such a thing.

Salvation is one event which happens at a point of time. It is achieved by grace through faith.

Works are a part of sanctification. the fruit of salvation. Not the cause of salvation.

Eternal life is the promise of God. If you do not have eternal life. You are in serious trouble How can you have faith in God if you do not have eternal life? WHat you have is despair and a lifetime of working your hardest hoping to gain something you may ever get. Thats what NOSAS gets you

Another OSAS self proclaimed judge? Anyway, thanks for saying I can NEVER be unsaved. Wish I could say the same for OSASers!

JunChosen · May 19, 2021

TheslightestID said:
The more this goes on, the more it shows, beyond any doubt, OSAS hasn't a leg to stand on.[/QUOTE]

It is BECAUSE you have NO UNDERSTANDING, NO KNOWLEDGE, and NO CONCEPT of what SALVATION truly means; as your vision is too small to comprehend!!!

What you do is read certain verses, put them together, and then create a false conclusion. The correct way is to find all the verses that pertain to the subject matter [just as the Bereans] and when you have exhausted all verses that speak about said matter, then and maybe then, you would have found truth.

AND, this is exhaustive work! Have you burnt the midnight oil???

TheslightestID said:

Question, If we do not do good, will we be condemned to hell, or go to heaven?

Click to expand...

NEITHER! No one is righteous no, not one [Romans 3:10]; therefore none have the capacity [power] to do good to gain the kingdom of God! On the other hand, people go to hell BECAUSE they are sinners!

To God Be The Glory

GRACE ambassador · May 19, 2021

TheslightestID said:
We live a life if doing good, we go to heaven, we do evil we go to hell.

Yes, we SHOULD do good FOR "reward" in Heaven; those IN Today's
Body Of CHRIST, who FAIL, will NOT "receive a reward, BUT SHALL BE Saved!"
(1Co_3 : 15 KJB!) Please "study" God's Truth Carefully And Prayerfully! Amen?

Eternally Grateful said:
Salvation is one event which happens at a point of time. It is achieved by grace through faith.

Amen! Achieved BY God, According To "The Revelation Of God's MYSTERY!"
(Romans-Philemon KJB!) = FOR "The Body Of CHRIST," Today!:

Precious friend(s), is not the Solution to Confusion recognizing
God's Differences Between "HIS Relationship With us," And
"our fellowship with HIM!"?

God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:

(1) God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who humbly:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)

"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits Of HIS
Precious And ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:

All sins Forgiven, HIS Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PENALTY of sin!}

ETERNAL Justification First, And, THEN:

(2) The believer SHOULD do "good works" {Which will NEVER EVER
EQUAL CHRIST's INFINITE PAYMENT For the above PENALTY of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, and SHOULD perform
for HIM, having "been Called into fellowship With HIM!" Amen?:

We "work out OUR OWN salvation" {This SHOULD Be a
lifetime of DELIVERANCE From the POWER of sin!}
Sanctification:

(2a) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE your neighbor
as yourself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)

(2b) Study Carefully And Prayerfully HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided, to show yourself Approved Unto God! (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)

Eternal Results: reward {or loss} (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!),
ruling and reigning With CHRIST, Which Will FINALLY Be At
The Judgment Day:

(3) CHRIST's GLORIFICATION of All "members" Of HIS Body!!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PRESENCE of sin!}
Amen?
----------------------------------
Conclusion:
BIG Differences Between God's Relationship And our fellowship!
Correct?

More here:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Precious friend(s): Please, Carefully And Prayerfully, Be Very Richly Blessed!

TheslightestID · May 19, 2021

GRACE ambassador said:
Yes, we SHOULD do good FOR "reward" in Heaven; those IN Today's
Body Of CHRIST, who FAIL, will NOT "receive a reward, BUT SHALL BE Saved!"
(1Co_3 : 15 KJB!) Please "study" God's Truth Carefully And Prayerfully! Amen?

That is not what the following scripture states. It says those who do good, go to heaven, and those who do evil do not. Why are so many of you teaching a false gospel...something that I would imagine God will see as doing evil, and certainly not doing good.

And I repeat:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

TheslightestID · May 19, 2021

The following in in answer to
JunChosen post
457, and you may want to fix that post.

What verses have I read and, "put together"? I keep posting tbe same scripture. Are you fighting such a losing battle that you need to make up lies about your opponents?

Again, what verses have I put together? And if you cannot anwser the question, I charge you with making up lies about those who are posting the truth here, as that is the only way you feel you can get anyone to believe your false doctrin.

Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

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