6000 years or millions of years ?

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betchevy

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Well....we see here differing degrees of unbelief... writer :Jeremiah is telling the inhabitants of Judah if you don't think God will destroy you look at the destruction He has done in the past when all the hills shook... the armies of the earth do not shake hills as in Jeremiah 4:24 and in Jeremiah 4:26 he clearly stated it was GOD 's presence that had done it not an army... but as I stated you and hykle are both in states of unbelief, He refuses to see the Bilble at all and you writer refuese to see the deep and only want to see what agrees with your religion...The Bible teaches about the Millienial age do you accept that? It is when yes God will destroy those who refuse to love Him. Rev 20.... the time we are living in is an age and the time of Satans rebellion is also and age and if you do not see it I can no more get you to than I can get hylkie to... because God must awaken those who will see and if I continue to try I am going against the will of Father and I would rather die than do that...I can only pray for you both and know I pity you both for being so sadly informed by God, there has to have been a reason for it, for God is not unfair...
 

Jordan

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Kriss, Betchevy, Writer, I'm going to play around ye's conclusions...Writer conclusions... ...thou hast believed... Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.Writer is saying that the Earth is made by God six literal 24 hours day.I Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.Writer, yea, thou art correct... Adam was the first man that brought sin to Earth in the flesh. (Ezekiel 18:4 - ...the soul that sinneth, it shall die.) (Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die...) But because the Word was made flesh... (John 1:14) ...Because He was God...(John 1:1) God was made manifest in the flesh. (I Timothy 3:16) Christ shall make us alive. (I Corinthians 15:22)...But beause thou hast know that we have souls in our flesh body... (Genesis 2:7)...Since Christ was with God (John 1:1) It is no doubt that He forknew us... even before we came from our mother's womb...(Jeremiah 1:5) In Him was life. (John 1:4) If Lucy have some of God's angel rebelled against Him, when does that take place to thee? When was their dinosaurs?My conclusion to thine conclusion is...If Earth is 6,000 human years old right now, thou would hast known by now that all of the prohesies of the Old Testament goes a lot quicker than everybody thinks... if 1 human day is also 1 day to God...thus making Peter a liar that he said in II Peter 3:8...therefore he shouldn't be an apostle to God.Kriss and Betchevy...Thou hast believed that their was a prior age before our flesh age. Thou hast believed that Earth became vain... (Genesis 1:2) ...but the LORD God did not create it in vain... (Isaiah 45:18) I so difinately 100% sure that thou hast believed that Lucy rebelled and got 1/3 of the angels as well...I'm so sure thou hast believed that it came in before Adam's time. And God's 1 day is 1000 human years. (II Peter 3:8) ...making it Peter is telling the truth.To me, it sounds like on Writer's term that God is on the rush to fulfil all prophesies.To me on Kriss and Betchevy's term that God is not in a rush at all to fulfill all prophesies.To think about this, If God is in the rush like us mankind...then God can't be Holy at all...us HUMANS needs to endure tons of patience.To me on my own conclusion... I can not believe for a fact that Earth are on the sixth day old. Because I have believe that in dinosaurs because of their bones on Earth... This Earth is at least two weeks old. It's common sense. I can't see how dinosaurs existed along with mankind in the flesh. (Job 40:15)...If they did...I'm sure mankind would die too easily than the dinosaurs.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.P.S. This is the year of 5767... and 2007...
 

Christina

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Jordan

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I'm well aware of that, I'm just using us four, cause it was started in the shoutbox. I'm going to just expand it with a few scriptures...I Corinthians 1:24 ...Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.I Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.I Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;To say this...God is awesome.I Corinthians 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour...
 

betchevy

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another site: http://www.christiangeology.com/and writer what about the scientists ? you think carbon dating is wrong? the millions of dinosaur bones plaster casts?what about the evidence?2nd Peter 1 ....read the whole thing... if you do not have the "devine nature" if you do not learn the whole word, build on the truth you will be blind .. you cannot see the truth for the desire to be right is more important to you than to learn truth... you think you religion is the endall to all things and it is false, all religion is false and not of God... the truth is Gods domain and He made science he made the thing science is made up of Gravity, nature, and your religion cannot resolve oitself to these things, then it is false. God is true in all things and will always remain so... if you will not see you are blind and will remain so...the end..period............................................................................................................................................................
 

betchevy

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and Hylkie, no the point IS the age of the earth and writer is just trying to be the authority of what we can use to prove it because thats what his religion has taught him, he is a MAN and us women are under this authority... HIS religion is wrong and he will fight any one who says anything contrary to it... WE are not under his authority or religion... but under the authority of the one true GOD which you too will one day bow a knee to...Phillipians 2:10 I can't wait for in that day ..all this squabble will end... for it is futile, God teaches whom He will... that speaks volumes about you...
 

Bamp;#39;midbar

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2. assume all verse's that say before the foundation of world don't mean what they say (thus changing Gods word)
I am curious about how you are understanding being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. Christ himself was also loved by the Father before the foundation of the world. Are you saying that we were first chosen and he was first loved at the same time, that is, somewhere after the foundation of what you call the first age, but before the foundation of the current age, that is, somewhere in time and not in eternity?
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In loveJohn 17: 24 "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
 

Christina

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I am just saying that we were created/ existed in spirit in the first earth age/world therefore God knew us before the foundation of this world/age.The first world/age was destroyed. Thus starts Gen1:2 the earth "became"void without form. I think Christ existed from the very beginning. at some point in the first world age Satan decided he should be Christ/God and rebelled. A third of us followed him, those chosen as the Elect (in this age) are the ones that stood with Christ in the first age/world. Rather than destroy his creation Gods plan gave us this world/age flesh bodies and free will to choose who we will follow. However the war in heaven continues and Satan has tried to interfere from the beginning of this world age. God will again destroy this world age and bring in the millenium and we will again be in our true spirit bodies .There is nothing new under the sun what happened before will happen again I really do not see a big mystery here. He has done it before and will do it again. Only difference is who we freely choose to follow. An added thought here 3 is the number of perfection
 

Jordan

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I think Christ existed from the very begining.
Kriss, Christ was there at the very beginning. He claims that He was with God...And He was God. (John 1:1) In fact God is three persons in one. (I John 5:7) If Christ wasn't there at the very beginning, than the whole thing would be a joke... Imagine this...(Although it will be foolish to believe this)...If there was no truth in anything, then what is the point of life to thee and everybody?Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour. God blessed!
 

Christina

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My personal opinion not backed by any scripture just my thoughts are that we were inocent of character or nature like Adam and Eve in the first earth age. And Satan being the given the earth to watch over we followed his rebellion naiively much as Adam an Eve did in the Garden thus God showed us mercy and love by giving all a second chance as I said this just my opinion.
 

Christina

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Kriss, Christ was there at the very beginning. He claims that He was with God...And He was God. (John 1:1) In fact God is three persons in one. (I John 5:7) If Christ wasn't there at the very beginning, than the whole thing would be a joke... Imagine this...(Although it will be foolish to believe this)...If there was no truth in anything, then what is the point of life to thee and everybody?Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour. God blessed!
you are right the superjag Christ has always existed as God has always existed
 

Jordan

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After learning (possisbly relearned) (I think we may have some knowledge as souls before flesh) so much...I kinda feel the same way as thee Kriss. God has given us a second chance if not the only chance in life. Praise God for His merciful and lovingkindnesses for that chance.
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Loveth thee in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour. God blessed!
 

Bamp;#39;midbar

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I really do not see a big mystery here.
The thing for me is that I have always understood it when it says Christ was loved before the foundation of the world to mean before everything, however one wishes to call it. Thus, I have associated it when we are chosen in Him before the foundation of the world to mean at that same "time", before everything, before we are born, alive, existed, created, etc. So I found it mysterious when you use the phrase "before the foundation of the world" to reference a point in time, well after God first created stuff. To me it means before creation of any kind, because that is when Christ was. It is like foreknowledge. It is beforehand. This is why it is mysterious to me.I agree, Christ has always been, and with God. And from my perspective, God has always known. He didn't start knowing after a time had passed. Hope that clarifies.
 

Christina

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I think I understand what you are saying but that is not the only verse that term is used Here it is Paul talking to us Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in loveI do not know at what time we all created just that we were choosen in him before the world proving only that we were before this world and way before the sixth day creation
 

writer4hisglory

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We’ll see how far I get tonight with this.
Posted by Kriss 4/28/2007 2:09 AMat that time only after judgment takes place death is caused by sin committed in the flesh the spirit/soul can only be killed by Judgement from God
You’ve missed my point, Kriss. The curse of death that came from Adam affects the entire world. The reason why animals die, trees die, people die, is because of Adam. Everything is cursed due to the sin of Adam.
Romans 6: 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Creation is under the bondage of corruption, what corruption? That corruption which entered into the world by that one man, Adam, namely death. All things are dieing because of the sin of one man, and that sinfulness is passed from that one man throughout the whole human race. Yet, we have a problem here, now don’t we, Kriss. Your theology has it to where death was already present before the fall of man. Billions of dinosaurs supposedly died up to this point, and the earth is, up to this point, filled with their bones. Man, however you slice the pie, is already under the curse of death because of the sin that was committed in the previous earth-age: Romans 6:23 – For the wages of sin is death. Note, this does not say that the wages of sin that is committed in the flesh, or the wages of sin from Adam onward, but that that wages of sin, all sin, is death. How can God look at a corrupt creation on day six, according to Genesis 1:31 and call it good? This is not the God that I know! God cannot call sin good, for to do so would be to go against the very nature of God! I daresay that if God called everything good, indeed, very good on day six with sin already present, that God is calling sin good, and this is not the God of the Bible.
Posted by Hylke 4/28/2007 9:28AMSo the point is not the age of the earth, but if the bible can be intepreted in way so that scientist are proven right? So basically in this debate, the assumption is made that the bible is 100% truthfull, that's not strange if you're a christian. But the other assumption that is made is much weirder, the assumption that any proof, can only be right if the bible says so, and therefore if the bible doesn't the proof must de nonsense.
I have never made such an assumption, nor have I alluded to making such. I will not say that any truth that is truth must be called truth by the Word of God. What I will say, though, is that where the Word of God touches on such things as science, historicity, and other areas, especially Theology, it is 100% truthful. The Word of God is the final authority in all matters.
Now these two assumptions, that the bible is true, and that any truth is only true if the bible says so, may seem the same, but the first is simply that the bible writes about reality, while the other assumes that the bible dictates reality.Now I'd say, that you can't assume both, either the bible writes about reality, does not have to dictate it, and therefore any scientific knowledge cannot be denied because the bible can't contradict reality, or you assume that any scientific knowledge that, you think, contradicts the bible must be false because the bible is true.It's really a question of who dictates who, do you feel that we should interpret the bibleby means of scientific knowledge, or deny scientific knowledge by means of the bible.
I do not believe that in order to take the Bible for what it says and believe exactly what it says that one must deny scientific knowledge. I believe that Science would be greatly benefited if instead of taking Science to the Word of God to find out how they can make the Word of God fit Science, rather, if they took Word of God and saw how the Science, rightly so-called, fits the Word of God. The Word of God is not a Science text book. But, again, where it touches on issues regarding science, it is 100% accurate.
And that is not just a question of wether or not the bible supports the earths age of billions (not millions) of years, or not, but it is a way more fundamental question, which is the basic distinction between bible funamentalists and non-bible fundamentalists. Now you could discuss this for eternity, if one camp is a bible fundamentalist and the other camp is a non-bible fundamentalist, because neither one of the camps' view of the bible will support the arguments of the other person.
It is a matter, plain and simple, of what the Word of God says.
Posted by Betchevy 4/28/2007 12:36 PM Well....we see here differing degrees of unbelief... writer :Jeremiah is telling the inhabitants of Judah if you don't think God will destroy you look at the destruction He has done in the past when all the hills shook... the armies of the earth do not shake hills as in Jeremiah 4:24 and in Jeremiah 4:26 he clearly stated it was GOD 's presence that had done it not an army...
Tell me, Betchevy, where do you find the support for your argument that Jeremiah is telling Judah to “look back” to creation? He makes no mention of Creation! He makes no mention of a pre-earth age. This is, once again, a “reading-into” the Word of God what is not there. If anyone at the Bible College I attended was accused of eisegetical study there would be proverbial fists flying. This is not a good way to study the Word of God. Read the Word for what it says, Betchevy, not for what you want it to say.
but as I stated you and hykle are both in states of unbelief, He refuses to see the Bilble at all and you writer refuese to see the deep and only want to see what agrees with your religion...
This is a smoke screen, Betchevy, and nothing more. You cannot properly debate with an opponent, and so you ridicule them? Classic.
The Bible teaches about the Millienial age do you accept that? It is when yes God will destroy those who refuse to love Him. Rev 20....
Stay on topic, Betchevy, or start another thread.
the time we are living in is an age and the time of Satans rebellion is also and age and if you do not see it I can no more get you to than I can get hylkie to... because God must awaken those who will see and if I continue to try I am going against the will of Father and I would rather die than do that...
I reckon there is no reason to continue this discussion with you, then, as we are poor wretches outside of the will of God and unable to come to any logical conclusion about what the word of God IS saying because we do not line up with the way that you believe. You still have yet to show anyone of us how Jeremiah is pointing to a pre-age earth. You are losing the argument. Now, pull yourself together, and debate properly.
I can only pray for you both and know I pity you both for being so sadly informed by God, there has to have been a reason for it, for God is not unfair...
You have no basis for saying this. You have not shown how I have come to an improper conclusion with Jeremiah or 2 Peter, instead you are so bent on your own flawed interpretation of Scripture that you are reduced to bashing the character of your opponent rather than addressing the issue at hand. I expected more from you, Betchevy. I did.
Posted by thesuperjag 4/28/2007 12:45PMKriss, Betchevy, Writer, I'm going to play around ye's conclusions...Writer conclusions... ...thou hast believed... Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.Writer is saying that the Earth is made by God six literal 24 hours day.I Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Correct so far.
Writer, yea, thou art correct... Adam was the first man that brought sin to Earth in the flesh. (Ezekiel 18:4 - ...the soul that sinneth, it shall die.) (Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die...) But because the Word was made flesh... (John 1:14) ...Because He was God...(John 1:1) God was made manifest in the flesh. (I Timothy 3:16) Christ shall make us alive. (I Corinthians 15:22)...But beause thou hast know that we have souls in our flesh body... (Genesis 2:7)...Since Christ was with God (John 1:1) It is no doubt that He forknew us... even before we came from our mother's womb...(Jeremiah 1:5) In Him was life. (John 1:4)
Tell me, thesuperjag, where does it say in 1Corinthians 15:22 “In the flesh”? You are adding into the Word of God what is not there.
If Lucy have some of God's angel rebelled against Him, when does that take place to thee? When was their dinosaurs?
As I have said before, after the sixth day of creation. I have already explained dinosaurs to you in the shoutbox.
My conclusion to thine conclusion is...If Earth is 6,000 human years old right now, thou would hast known by now that all of the prohesies of the Old Testament goes a lot quicker than everybody thinks... if 1 human day is also 1 day to God...thus making Peter a liar that he said in II Peter 3:8...therefore he shouldn't be an apostle to God.
I do not come to the same conclusion that you do, thesuperjag. It says that to God 1 day is as a thousand years, and to God 1,000 years is as a day. It goes both ways, not just one. The point that is being made in 2 Peter 3 is that God is not constrained nor influenced with the carrying out of His judgments with time. I would be careful to show a little more respect to the one that you refer to as Lucy. He was at one time the highest angel, and now he is the greatest deceiver. I would not make light of him, for by him many have been deceived and will be deceived into the fires of hell.
To me, it sounds like on Writer's term that God is on the rush to fulfil all prophesies.
I have never said the such. You are making false assumptions. I am only showing what the word of God CLEARLY teaches. Thesuperjag, are you in this debate or not?
Posted by Kriss 4/28/2007 2:18PMto all this is not just mine and Bets idea of doctrine this is truth from Gods word you can read of it in many places starting with Swampfox's excellent study on this sitehttp://www.christianityboard.com/ear...study-t79.htmlhttp://www.levendwater.org/companion/append146.htmlhttp://www.goodnewsministry.com/topics.htmhttp://www.theseason.org/2peter/2peter1.htmjust for a few I could find many more but I think this proves my point.
The popularity of an argument neither affirms it or discredits it. Note that for several years men thought that the world was flat, and that Columbus would fall off the edge of the earth. Hmm. What does the Word of God say, Kriss, that is the only thing I am interested in here. For it is by the Word of God that our doctrine must either stand or fall, and by no other.
Posted by Betchevy 4/28/2007 3:03 PM another site: http://www.christiangeology.com/and writer what about the scientists ? you think carbon dating is wrong? the millions of dinosaur bones plaster casts?what about the evidence?2nd Peter 1 ....read the whole thing... if you do not have the "devine nature" if you do not learn the whole word, build on the truth you will be blind .. you cannot see the truth for the desire to be right is more important to you than to learn truth... you think you religion is the endall to all things and it is false, all religion is false and not of God... the truth is Gods domain and He made science he made the thing science is made up of Gravity, nature, and your religion cannot resolve oitself to these things, then it is false. God is true in all things and will always remain so... if you will not see you are blind and will remain so...the end..period....................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................
Do a study on Carbon Dating through such sites as answersingenesis.com and drdino.com, etc. I think you will find that it is not as accurate as you think. Once again, instead of addressing what I have said, you are attacking me. Why don’t you take an honest look at what I have written about Jeremiah? I see… it is because I do not have your divine nature. I am too dumb to read and interpret the Word of God for what it says. Hmm. Until you address my posts in a proper manner, Betchevy, we are done. I will from this point on, ignore anything posted by you. You have only one way to gain my attention to what you are saying, and that is to address Jeremiah and what I have written there. I have spent too much time on my responses to be kicked out based on the fact that I do not have your divine nature to see what is not there. You have insulted me. But I do not make this stand based upon hurt pride, but based upon wasted time if you will not take an honest look at what I have written.
Posted by Kriss 4/28/2007 10:50 PM My personal opinion not backed by any scripture just my thoughts are that we were inocent of character or nature like Adam and Eve in the first earth age. And Satan being the given the earth to watch over we followed his rebellion naiively much as Adam an Eve did in the Garden thus God showed us mercy and love by giving all a second chance as I said this just my opinion.
You make objective statements and claim no support for them in scripture. In the court of law, Kriss, you would have been laughed at if you tried to defend someone with such logic. I am not interested in what your opinions are, but what the Word of God says. But, I suppose that in order to hold to a pre-earth age, one has no other choice but to go off of opinions. Where does the Bible ever mention anything about a second chance in regard to salvation of a pre-adamic race? What about the angels? The Bible teaches no such thing! You prove my point here clearly. You are willing to teach something that the Word of God makes no mention of: And Satan being the given the earth to watch over we followed his rebellion naiively much as Adam an Eve did in the Garden thus God showed us mercy and love by giving all a second chance as I said this just my opinion. And if you are willing to teach an objective statement as truth without any support, what does this do to your credibility when you try to teach something else that is not clearly taught within scripture? How do we know that the other is not just merely an opinion? Rule of thumb in debates, mention nothing that is subjective as objective. It doesn’t help your credibility.
Posted by Kriss 4/28/2007 11:48I think I understand what you are saying but that is not the only verse that term is used Here it is Paul talking to us Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in loveI do not know at what time we all created just that we were choosen in him before the world proving only that we were before this world and way before the sixth day creation
Kriss, do you believe that God knew about 9/11 before the foundation of the World? Does that mean that 9/11 happened before the foundation of the world? Something does not need to be in existence for God to know about it. That is known as omniscience and omnipotence. I sometimes wonder if there is any point to continuing this. Writer
 

Christina

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Creation is under the bondage of corruption, what corruption? That corruption which entered into the world by that one man, Adam, namely death. All things are dieing because of the sin of one man, and that sinfulness is passed from that one man throughout the whole human race. Yet, we have a problem here, now don’t we, Kriss. Your theology has it to where death was already present before the fall of man. Billions of dinosaurs supposedly died up to this point, and the earth is, up to this point, filled with their bones. Man, however you slice the pie, is already under the curse of death because of the sin that was committed in the previous earth-age: Romans 6:23 – For the wages of sin is death. Note, this does not say that the wages of sin that is committed in the flesh, or the wages of sin from Adam onward, but that that wages of sin, all sin, is death. How can God look at a corrupt creation on day six, according to Genesis 1:31 and call it good? This is not the God that I know! God cannot call sin good, for to do so would be to go against the very nature of God! I daresay that if God called everything good, indeed, very good on day six with sin already present, that God is calling sin good, and this is not the God of the Bible. {quote}I have already said Satan who is death (sin) rebelled in the first earth ageflesh has never been imortal the very fact we were made flesh is a result of sin Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. So no I dont see any problemI also stated very clearly when I was stateing my personal opion not that it means anything in this argument but I did not state it nessarily for or to you. I too grow wearry of this subject I have made my case according to scripture you have made yours accoring to your reading niether of us is going to change our mind so let others make up theirs.As far as Im concerned you have not and can not show scripture to dispute me or shown scripture to support your view. Only that it is your veiw. So with that let the reader decide
 

writer4hisglory

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Agreed. Let the reader decide. I could say more, but what is the point? I do not have the divine nature (sarcastically spoken). May the Lord bless.
 

HammerStone

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Your theology has it to where death was already present before the fall of man.
Actually writer, your theology has the bigger problem. Another name for Satan is Death: Revelation 6:8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. The capital "D" being key here. Satan is death; as Ezekiel 28 witnesses, he's the only one condemned to turn to ashes from within. The bigger death; the spiritual death. If Adam was the first to sin, we have a big problem. Satan was present in the garden of Eden as I think you'll agree. The Bible is clear on that and I'd be happy to present documentation if you do not agree. Satan's sin in Ezekiel 28 is his pride and desiring to sit in the throne of God. Now if we play this game and assume that Adam committed the first sin; where does old Lucifer fit in? He obviously sinned in the garden. Given his nature there as well, I think it's very safe to say he had already rebelled. I strongly believe Scripture supports that his rebellion came before Eden. However, we have the Greek that further backs up what I am getting at above. The Greek for entered is pretty darn clear: Romans 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Entered here isn't in the sense that it was created. Entered in the Greek literally is to go in a door. This explicitly implies existence beforehand because in order to enter into a house, for example, you stand on the outside, cross the threshold, and enter the house. Satan is called the father of lies in John 8 because he was the first to lie. He was also the first murderer.
 

betchevy

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posted writer:posted by Betchevy 4/28/2007 12:36 PM Well....we see here differing degrees of unbelief... writer :Jeremiah is telling the inhabitants of Judah if you don't think God will destroy you look at the destruction He has done in the past when all the hills shook... the armies of the earth do not shake hills as in Jeremiah 4:24 and in Jeremiah 4:26 he clearly stated it was GOD 's presence that had done it not an army... Tell me, Betchevy, where do you find the support for your argument that Jeremiah is telling Judah to “look back” to creation? He makes no mention of Creation! He makes no mention of a pre-earth age. This is, once again, a “reading-into” the Word of God what is not there. If anyone at the Bible College I attended was accused of eisegetical study there would be proverbial fists flying. This is not a good way to study the Word of God. Read the Word for what it says, Betchevy, not for what you want it to say. **********************************************************Do you see anywhere in my "quote" from you a reference to creation and yet you use this word to say it cannot be true because its not there,. You are not reading what we write with any degree of understanding.... its as if you cannot see it on the screen because you are blinded by your preconcieved beliefs and cannot learn anything beyond them... God destroyed the first age and the quote is only about that destruction..... your comment makes no sense or relation to the quote.... can you not see that? Your comment makes no sense God is not talking about creation neither am I ...I am reading the Word talking about the destruction of the earth in the first age... I AM NOT READING ANYTHING IN TO IT... IT IS THERE TO SEE IT SAYS GOD DESTROYED THE EARTH HIS PRESENCE WAS THERE...PERIOD..Jeremiah says if you don't believe God will do it now, look at what he did then...its a descrption of the destroying of the earth in the first age when GOD made it to become void... I really think you cannot, that you have become blinded in some strange way by what you have learned from your "religion"... its right there for all to see ... your arguments don't fit..how else are we to explain a relatively intellegent person such as yourself unable to see what we write ...unable to comment about them without changing the texts? You are one not reading the word for what it says,,, because Jeremiah wasn't warning of creation, but of the destruction of the Katabol(greek) and so your arguments make no sense ...I have shown you, Kriss has shown you,IN THE WORD>>> Jag can see it clearly but you do not....why would that be?Jeremiah 4 is speaking of destrution not creation, why bring in creation as an argument? the destruction is what God did and what he is telling them he did not creation ....do you see how foolish you sound? its like talking about a train wreck and you bring up the reason being it was painted blue... it cannot even be related..I am frustrated beyond belief by your inconsistancies...you cannot argue a point with someone who will not stay on point...what else am I to think except God will not allow you to see this?There is no other explaination....God has not made this easy to see, it is for those who desire to to know truth, just as Christ spoke in parables...We have given you many proofs and studies, yet you constantly tell us what we an refer to in order to help you understand, all these things are related you ust understand the WHOLE WORD you have said in this discussion:"Stay on topic, Betchevy, or start another thread. " more than 3 times ... I never changed the subject, only introduced parts of the entire subject.... and you do deny science ... where does this gas an oil come from you have in your car...... those millions of dinosaurs you deny lived millions of years ago it took millions of years for the gas to form from them... carbon dating is not wrong and you have not given any proof it is...have you ever studied physics? the newest studies state there are separate dimensions in the time/space continuim.... we Christians have know this for years.. a spiritual realm... I am not changing subject here just noting science and the Word are in agreement except where evolution is concerned...I agree you do not see what we are saying... why? because it disagrees with what you believe not because we did not explain it ... because Jag understood but you did not... think and pray on that...I am not being unkind by saying that you do not have a spiritual nature, I am only trying to explain why you cannot see this truth... it has to be because God will not allow it... I know you are intellegent enough, have a background in the Word... have everything it would take to see this, yet you cannot....Jag, who is younger less educated and only a Christian for a short time sees it...from the same words you read.....what could possibly be the difference? He has no preconcieved notions of the truth...YOU WILL NOT LEARN BEYOND YOUR KNOWN LIMITATIONS...you are blinded by your religion..
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
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If I had to debate, I won't, but it is more of a discussion to me than a debate...cause if I debate...it is nothing more than trying to prove someone wrong and you're right type of thing. About what thou hast said about II Peter 3:8...Thou said that "To God one day is as a thousand years, and to God 1000 years as one day." I have to disagree with thee a lot...Reason is that it contradicts itself...and God can not contradict Himself... Here is a good one...Can we change the past? Nay. But we can change the future... as God says this in I John 2:8 - Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.(Jordan)
To me, it sounds like on Writer's term that God is on the rush to fulfil all prophesies.
(writer4hisglory)
I have never said the such. You are making false assumptions. I am only showing what the word of God CLEARLY teaches. Thesuperjag, are you in this debate or not?
I never said that thou hast said that...I said it sounds like it...(writer4hisglory)
Tell me, thesuperjag, where does it say in 1 Corinthians 15:22 “In the flesh”? You are adding into the Word of God what is not there.
Noticed that I italicized these words "in the flesh" in my post...I was clarifying that Adam was the first man that sinned in the flesh body...like in I Corinthians 15:22... However Satan (or Lucifer) was the first person that sinned...He is the father of all lies and a murderer (John 8:44) And his name is Death like SwampFox says and the bible...Revelation 6:8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.Writer... there is a major difference between me and thee...you: Thy desire is that thou want to be right...me: The only desire I have is: I want to be dead wrong... In fact, I hate to be right...because it is not my glory to have but Him only. I love it when the Lord is right... I will continue on degrading myself while upgrading the Lord. (John 3:30) Truthfully, I don't want to save my life...not once. (Mark 8:34-36) I only love...Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.P.S. The Holy Bible is full of apparant contradictions...that some will grasp the Word of God.2nd P.S. (Betchevy)
I am not changing subject here just noting science and the Word are in agreement except where evolution is concerned...
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, but if thou want to keep calling Evolution... "Science" ...but I rather not call it "Science" but Religion as it is where it belongs...I Timothy 6:20 - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: