Just stating the obvious. They were also what Paul called 'bewitched' and 'fallen from grace'. I doubt if you even know what you believe. Which NT Books do you believe are the Word of God? None maybe?
A Simple Question To The Forum About Getting Into The Kingdom Of God.
- Thread starter Eccl.12:13
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Because this is where the Lord wants it at this point in time.
"Which NT Books do you believe are the Word of God? None maybe?"
Which NT Books do you believe contain the Word of God? None maybe?"
I corrected your question to me, for you to be correct.
"I doubt if you even know what you believe."
That is obvious by your incorrect answers.
Untill the Lord be willing, Later my friend.
"Which NT Books do you believe are the Word of God? None maybe?"
Which NT Books do you believe contain the Word of God? None maybe?"
I corrected your question to me, for you to be correct.
"I doubt if you even know what you believe."
That is obvious by your incorrect answers.
Untill the Lord be willing, Later my friend.
I am merely discussing the VERY important doctrine that Paul was defending in Galatians. The Judaizers/Galatians are still around.
The only answer I am looking for is either 'Yes', or 'No', with scriptures to back your claim. This would be an example of what I am talking about;
"No! I believe if a person does all they can to keep God's laws to the best of their ability it will NOT decrease their chances of getting into His kingdom." Followed by scriptures to back your claim.
Or,
"Yes! I do believe that if a person does all they can to keep God's laws to the best of their ability it WILL decrease their chances of getting into His kingdom." Followed by scriptures to back your claim. (Amazing!!! Just writing the statement and reading it does not even make any sense.)
But thus far I have only recieved the following from you duck;
You have not said Yes or No!
I just want the readers to THINK about it!
How can keeping God's laws be harmful for mankind? How can keeping God's keep someone OUT of His kingdom? How can keeping God's laws NOT be required? Can you imagine the state of the world if all of mankind kept God's laws?
How can ALL of God's laws be nailed to His cross and we are no longer 'oligated' to keep them!
Readers.....does that make sense?
Of course not. And do you know what else does not make any sense? The following statement;
"Yes! I do believe that if a person does all they can to keep God's laws to the best of their ability it WILL decrease their chances of getting into His kingdom."
And that is why you will not get a 'No', or a 'Yes' reply out of mr. duck!
He can't say keeping God's laws will NOT decrease anyone's chances, because that would mean there would be some good to keeping God's laws. And he certainly cannot say that keeping God's laws WILL decrese someone's chances, because it just does not make any sense!
So what does he do? This....
Quote scriptures without an explanation!
I'm not going back and forth on this.
Readers....this question was to give you something to just think about, and I see that some have. I pray you will continue to read God's word for yourself, pray for wisdom and understanding, and put some of that God given common sense to work!
.
.
.
Why are you ignoring the answers I gave you? I have answered your questions and you have ignored the answers. No point in repeating them since you are ignoring them. You take THE LAW of Moses and I'll take the NT and we'll see who gets there.
OK.....maybe I missed your answer. If I did, sorry.
Which post# did you give me a 'yes' or 'no' answer?
But you do understand you do NOT have to reply at all right? This lesson is not for you!
.
.
I gave the answers many times and they are not yes or no questions you asked. If you want yes or no answers then ask yes or no questions.
Ecc, you say that you are not trying to change our minds, but you do the very best to undermine everyone, to the point of calling us ignorant, to make your case.
I try my best to answer you both biblically and lovingly, but I'm getting very weary of your barely subtle insults. I'm getting weary of you going over and over the same topic, and when you are shown time and time again both Bible references and just plain common sense you just retreat and then start a whole new thread.
The thing is Ecc, that you are trying to teach others not just to respect and regard the law, you are trying to tell them two things: that following these laws is essential to salvation, and that by following the laws you increase your chances of getting into heaven - increasing your righteousness, as it were. Both of these ideas are totally wrong, and for you to be pushing these on Christians with 'unformed ideas', is just wolf in sheep's clothes behavior.
You want a simple answer? Jesus. The difference between the covenants, old and new, is basically the path to salvation. Under the old covenant they had to closely observe the laws and make animal sacrifces for their sin. This was the only way God could see them as righteous...and quite obviously it was the model being held together by duct tape....
Enter Jesus, who lived the perfect life, and died the ultimate sacrifice in our place...once and for all, so that in God's eyes, under His blood, we are seen as righteous.
The New is so much better! Grace under Jesus is God's ultimate plan for our salvation! Why on earth would we then hold ourselves to the Old? Your ideas not only hold zero merit for both salvation and a life under Christ, but the New Testament is FULL of passages that refute it.
I know you spend your life refusing to see this, and I'm so sorry for you. I'm sorry that you come so close to the truth that Jesus brings, but miss it by a fraction; working instead to earn righteousness, to build up something to boast in. Ecc, the reason God planned the New covenant this way is so we have absolutely nothing to boast in but Christ. It's all Jesus; the work, the grace, the salvation.
Are you kidding me? If you, or anyone, cannot reason that keeping God's laws betters your chances of getting into His kingdom you are more blind and delusioned than I thought. If no one is 'obligated' to keep God's laws, then explain this verse;
"Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it."
If nobody has to keep God's laws why isn't EVERBODY getting into His kingdom?
Readers....let's look at (2) examples;
First, Let's say I, for example, were to come and stole Rach's belongings, ravished your spouse, abused your kids, lied on you, killed a family member and, just for the heck of it, spit on the dog! Now let's say I continued to do things like this until the day I died.
Second, Let's say, Rach, for example, never did any of the above things mentioned, well....maybe you spit on a dog once in a while, and you continued to NOT do these things until the day that you died.
Do you really think Rach would not have better chance than I, as far as getting into God's kingdom?
Just what is it you think God is going to judge us on? FAITH only?
Readers....let's READ how God is going to judge both sinner and righteous;
Ezek.18
[20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Now we know what a sinner is. It is one that breaks the laws of God, which, according to God's inspired word, ALL have done. And the scriptures says he that sinneth shall die. Understand the death spoken of here is the second death. Now let's read what happens if the sinner turns from his ways, and stops breaking God's laws, or stop sinning;
[21] But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
[22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
So the sinner can change his fate, as long as he is alive that is. If he stops breaking Gods laws none of his transgressions will even be mentioned, "...he shall live." Do you know what it means by, "he shall live"? It means the sinner will not die the second death. The, once, sinner shall not be thrown into the lake of fire. So where shall he dwell? In God's kingdom!
Now let's see if there is a flip side to this. Let's read what happens to the righteous when they stop keeping God’s laws;
[24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
So all of the good things a righteous person does can be wiped away and counted for nothing if he begins to sin. And does he have the chance to redeem himself? Let's read;
[26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
If the righteous dies in them is the key here. And what is the death the, once, righteous will die? The second death! He will be thrown into the lake of fire and will NOT get into God's kingdom.
And what was it God used to judge both sinner and righteous? His LAWS!!!.
Readers....you can let someone deceive you into thinking you do not have to keep God's laws, but is that what God's word says? Is that what you just read above?
Come on....use some common sense people!
Doing your best to keep God's laws will count for NOTHING????? Really????
As I have always said....... THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!
.
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;
[sup]10 [/sup]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;
Have you even read the New Testament? Not everyone is getting into heaven because not everyone loves Jesus. Its always all about Jesus. The entire Bible is about Jesus, and you keep harping about the Law? Jesus is higher than the law! I was going to answer you bit by bit, but I think I will just let the Bible speak for itself. You don't listen to me, but perhaps you'll listen to it.
[Peace with God Through Faith]
[5:1] Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(Romans 5:1 ESV)
[9] Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
(Romans 5:9 ESV)
[11] More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
(Romans 5:11 ESV)
[20] Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, [21] so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Romans 5:20-21 ESV)
[14] For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
(Romans 6:14 ESV)
[Slaves to Righteousness]
[15] What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! [16] Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? [17] But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, [18] and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. [19] I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
(Romans 6:15-19 ESV)
[Released from the Law]
[7:1] Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? [2] For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. [3] Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
[4] Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. [5] For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. [6] But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
(Romans 7:1-6 ESV)
[Life in the Spirit]
[8:1] There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. [3] For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, [4] in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
(Romans 8:1-4 ESV)
[39] and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.
(Acts 13:39 ESV)
[17] But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God [18] and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; [19] and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, [20] an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— [21] you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? [22] You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? [23] You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. [24] For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
(Romans 2:17-24 ESV)
[Fulfilling the Law Through Love]
[8] Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. [9] For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [10] Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:8-10 ESV)
[19] Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. [20] For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
[The Righteousness of God Through Faith]
[21] But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— [22] the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: [23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [24] and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [25] whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. [26] It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
[27] Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. [28] For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
(Romans 3:19-28 ESV)
Finally, I wanted to comment on this:
We can see from the above verses that the sinner becomes righteous through the blood of Christ, which means God view us and our deed through Jesus. The only laws we need to worry about now come under love (Romans 13:8-10). People were judged through laws, but that was before Jesus.
You should also try reading Hebrews...and I do mean really read it, as anyone who has cannot hold to the views you do.
I have thought about it, for years. You should follow your own advice.
Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
[sup]1 [/sup]Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. [sup]2 [/sup]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. [sup]3 [/sup]And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. [sup]4 [/sup]You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
[sup]What of this verse? Paul is fairly clear about it all. People who try to undermine Jesus' gospel by the religious pedigree, their precious laws. It means nothing, and those that try to lead people astray by these means are called 'dogs', 'evildoers', and 'mutilators of the flesh'.
[/sup][sup]
2[/sup]Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. [sup]3[/sup]For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— [sup]4[/sup] though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: [sup]5[/sup] circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; [sup]6[/sup] as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.[sup]7[/sup]But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. [sup]8[/sup]Indeed, I count everything as loss because of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. the surpassing worth of For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ [sup]9[/sup]and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and[sup]10[/sup] the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, [sup]11[/sup]that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. (Philippians 3:2-11 ESV)
Oh, and that would take care of the question....asked by Ecc.."Just what is it you think God is going to judge us on? FAITH only?"
Well, as it says: "not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith"
[/sup][sup]
2[/sup]Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. [sup]3[/sup]For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— [sup]4[/sup] though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: [sup]5[/sup] circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; [sup]6[/sup] as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.[sup]7[/sup]But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. [sup]8[/sup]Indeed, I count everything as loss because of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. the surpassing worth of For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ [sup]9[/sup]and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and[sup]10[/sup] the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, [sup]11[/sup]that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. (Philippians 3:2-11 ESV)
Oh, and that would take care of the question....asked by Ecc.."Just what is it you think God is going to judge us on? FAITH only?"
Well, as it says: "not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith"
I figure I'll ask the same question here as in the other thread: If you're striving to keep the law, you must surely be striving to keep the law that commands you to kill homosexuals, adulterers, etc...
Are you murdering people, Eccl?
Are you murdering people, Eccl?
I have conversed with a fellow who believed in the execution of violators of the Law of Moses. Honestly I can't imagine anyone believing we must execute others because of religious beliefs. Here's another command from THE LAW.
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 (NKJV)
[sup]6 [/sup]"If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, [sup]7 [/sup]of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, [sup]8 [/sup]you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; [sup]9 [/sup]but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. [sup]10 [/sup]And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Just think of how many we'd have to execute for working on the Sabbath.
Exodus 35:2 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.
The problem with Ecc, is that he is a walking contradiction. First he tells everyone that if they don't keep God's dietary laws they're fry in hell...then he tells us that we only have to 'try out best' as he admits 'it's impossible to keep all the laws perfectly'.
He feels he's able to pick and choose which laws 'really matter', which defies logic.
He believes and tries his very best to sway others into believing that his bastardized version of Mosaic law can actually gain them some righteousness in God's eyes....which the New Testament tells us is impossible. He truly believes that by sticking un-bendingly to his somewhat bendy 'religion' he can somehow earn grace. I oppose this because it belittles Jesus sacrifice, saying it wasn't enough.
Not only does he not make sense, he defies scripture and makes Jesus less than He is. I would tolerate Ecc's eccentricities a little better if he wasn't trying his very best to lead others astray.
Robbie
New Member
I just had a funny memory from a couple years ago about talking about the Kingdom... this pastor guy down by the pier was telling everyone that God wanted them to believe in Him so that when they died they would go to heaven...
I asked him a simple question, "How come you're always talking about God wanting us to die and go to heaven but Jesus said for our prayer to be that God's Kingdom would come to the earth?"
Oh my gosh... the dude freaked out on me... started putting his finger in my face and stuff.. hahahaha... Such a scene... can't even imagine the egos Jesus had to deal with...
Anyways... our Father Rules... His Kingdom come... His will be done... on Earth as it is in Heaven... the last enemy that will be defeated here is death... so excited... He is the resurrection now and always... because He is LIFE!!!
<3 LOVE <3
I asked him a simple question, "How come you're always talking about God wanting us to die and go to heaven but Jesus said for our prayer to be that God's Kingdom would come to the earth?"
Oh my gosh... the dude freaked out on me... started putting his finger in my face and stuff.. hahahaha... Such a scene... can't even imagine the egos Jesus had to deal with...
Anyways... our Father Rules... His Kingdom come... His will be done... on Earth as it is in Heaven... the last enemy that will be defeated here is death... so excited... He is the resurrection now and always... because He is LIFE!!!
<3 LOVE <3
Hey Rach, duckyman and anyone else that believes they are not obligated to keep any of God's laws, answer me this;
Do you think Paul taught men NOT to covet?
YES or NO! Pretty simple!
Those reading this lesson, please pay attention to their answer! There is no need of scriptures....only a very simple answer.....
YES or NO!
.
Do you think Paul taught men NOT to covet?
YES or NO! Pretty simple!
Those reading this lesson, please pay attention to their answer! There is no need of scriptures....only a very simple answer.....
YES or NO!
.
Similar threads
