A Simple Question To The Forum About Getting Into The Kingdom Of God.

Eccl.12:13 said:

Get it right....... God's KINGDOM......NOT heaven! No one is going to heaven.....the throne of God!

Didn't you know that?

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Semantics. Do you want me to rephrase? "When we are were Jesus is..." Hows that.
The amazing thing is this: you've still dodged all the Biblical facts that I've shown you.
That you would ignore all that and hone in on something as silly as what we wanna call it when we see Jesus, tells me, and hopefully everyone else, that you have no truly Biblical replies to what I've posted.

Does it help you sleep the sleep of the righteous if you pretend that your ideology is truly scriptural; that everyone who posts verse upon verse that shows you differently is just foolish and stupid.

Man, the Bible ought to be enough to show you your error, but on top of that, you don't even seem aware that you're not even consistent.

You say: "you gotta keep God's rules or burn in hell."
You also say: "But you don't need to keep all of them...just the ones I deem necessary."
You say: "you gotta keep God's rules or burn in hell."
But then say: "Of course man can't keep the rules perfectly."
You say: "Jesus only died to do away with the sacrificial system."
And yet Jesus said as He died: "IT IS FINISHED"....and this is after He had said He had come to fulfill...what....THE Law. Not A Law, not PART of the Law, no, ALL of it, and it is FINISHED.
You say: "Following the rules I deem necessary will get me into heaven...(oh, excuse me, the Kingdom of God).
The Bible says: "Everything we do is filthy. That it is impossible to earn our way into heaven (oops...where Jesus is), and that the ONLY way to the Father is through Christ our Lord.
You say: 'That keeping these laws will give me a better chance when I stand before Jesus."
Jesus says: "Truly, I say to you, I do not know you." Do you really think Jesus wants you to stand before Him and diminish His suffering on the Cross so you can feel righteous by your own merit?

[sup]23[/sup]You who[sup][/sup] boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. (Rom 2:23 ESV)

[sup]27[/sup][sup][/sup] Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. [sup]28[/sup]For we hold that one is justified by faith[sup][/sup] apart from works of the law.
(Rom 3:27-28 ESV)

[sup]29[/sup]so[sup][/sup] that no human being might boast in the presence of God. [sup]30[/sup]And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us[sup][/sup] wisdom from God,[sup][/sup] righteousness and[sup][/sup] sanctification and[sup][/sup] redemption, [sup]31[/sup]so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord." (1 Cor 1:29-31 ESV)

[sup]18[/sup]For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one[sup][/sup] whom the Lord commends. (2 Cor 10:18 ESV)

[sup]8[/sup]For[sup][/sup] by grace you have been saved[sup][/sup] through faith. And this is not your own doing;[sup][/sup] it is the gift of God, [sup]9[/sup][sup][/sup] not a result of works,[sup][/sup] so that no one may boast. (Eph 2:8-9 ESV)

It all speaks for itself Ecc. ONLY through Jesus can we be seen as righteous....nothing you can do will put you in a better standing. I pray you will see the truth in this.

I always enjoy reading your post Rach

Don't let him wear you out. I've had my turn with him as well in the past.
Know when to kick the dust from your feet and move on. On a second thought others are encouraged in a forum as well.

If you notice, as I'm sure you have, As Jesus went toe to toe with the Pharisees it was the on lookers that heard and understood.

Eccl.12:13 said:

If the one that gave the command, says it's an option, then it's an option!

Jesus is the one that gave it to man in the first place!

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Was it an option for the people that lived prior to Christ's birth?

Additionally, you still haven't answered my question. Is the commandment itself mandatory or optional?

Eccl.12:13 said:

It was not an option until Christ said it was. That being said, as I have said before, Christ NEVER said NOT to punish those according to His laws, He never said we would be wrong in doing so, but He did ask that we examine ourselves first. He then said to let all those that sin dwell with the righteous and He would punish them when He returns.

ALL of these same laws will still stand and be in effect during His 1000yr rule. At that time, there will be no question as to what will be done to those that disobey. If the law calls for death, then those that disobey will be killed!

He and the saints WILL rule with a rod of iron!

I have answered your question yet again!

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What I find interesting about you Eccl is that you make the tough commands either past or future so that YOU don't have to do them. They are commanded to YOU!

Deuteronomy 13:6-9 (NKJV)
[sup]6 [/sup]"If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, [sup]7 [/sup]of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, [sup]8 [/sup]you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; [sup]9 [/sup]but YOU SHALL SURELY KILL HIM; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

And you still haven't told us how you get out of this:

Galatians 5:2 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, CHRIST WILL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

So please tell us how you don't have to obey THE LAW.

Eccl.12:13 said:

Dude....lighten up! Take a few deep breaths! I was kidding! When have I EVER deviated from the topic being spoke about!!

1.......2.......3.......4.......that's it.....5.......6.......7.......8.......relax!

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Is this you "kidding" again, about not deviating? Because you still haven't addressed anything...at all.
I'm fine, I'm just dandy, thanks, but truly, trying to be a smarty pants isn't going to give your ideology any more merit or even clarity.
And quite frankly every time you avoid answering our questions, and then accuse us of doing the same, you loose credibility.
Man up, answer the questions. And by that I mean go back and read them again. I'm fully onto your..."Oh sorry, what were they again?", In attempt to make us go back over the same ground. Read back, address the Biblical verses that smash your theory, and either show contextual verses to back your vain hope to earn your way into heaven, or just give up. You can't prove it, you know, and if you insist that the Old Covenant law can help you get to the Father, then you're in the wrong religion....you should switch to Judaism. Honestly, I can't see why you need Jesus at all...not with you amazingly consistent law keeping to back you up.

Eccl.12:13 said:

It was not an option until Christ said it was.

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So then it was mandatory in OT times.


Then Christ made it not mandatory.


It took you enough posts but you finally admit it: Christ changed something with the Law.


Now ask yourself, Eccl........ What was this change?

Rach said:

You can't prove it, you know, and if you insist that the Old Covenant law can help you get to the Father, then you're in the wrong religion....you should switch to Judaism.

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That's actually a really good point. It'd fit his bill perfectly.

Other than that you make good points. I suspect, us having made progress in Eccl admitting that Christ changed something with the law... That progress will now be for naught and I will go out on a limb and guess he'll go back to his very first post verses intellectually following the conversation with the mind God gave him.

Paul says to "you who desire to be under THE LAW", you are "bewitched", "fallen from grace", "Christ shall profit you NOTHING", "under the curse", "let him be accursed", "estranged from Christ", "a debtor to keep the whole law".

Eccl.12:13 said:

And what does Paul have to say about getting into God's kingdom....let's read.......

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Yes, let's ...

Galatians 5:2 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

Still waiting for your explanation.

Eccl.12:13 said:

It was not an option until Christ said it was.

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This right here means it changed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I caught you slipping your tongue and admitting this. I'm sure you'll never admit that it changed because it destroys what you're trying to preach but the fact remains... You had to come to the conclusion that it changed. Now you're just back pedaling and trying to get away from the fact you admit that yes, Christ changed something.

Eccl.12:13 said:

What changed was man. Man became so corrupt

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Are you insinuating man wasn't corrupted before Christ?


LOL...

Eccl.12:13 said:

Here is a very simple question, to which some may, or may not reply. Most I know will not even agree, but this is the reason for a forum. But if you do respond, please provide scriptures that helped you come to your conclusion.


The question:

If a person does all that they can to keep the statues, commandments and laws of God to the best of their ability, even if they do not keep them perfectly, will it DECREASE their chance of entering God's kingdom?

Hopefully you will answer honestly, although it may go totally against what you feel or have been taught.

Because to be honest......I can find NOWHERE in the scriptures where it says, "If you KEEP God's laws to the best of your abilities, it will lessen your chances or you will NOT get into His kingdom if you try!"

So many people say, ‘It is impossible to keep ALL of God’s Laws Perfectly!” And they are right! It IS impossible! But God, NEVER EVER tells us we should not TRY to keep them! As a matter of fact, from Gen. to Rev. the one thing God tells us to do over and over again is to KEEP His Commandments.

Now let's just be real for a moment, the scriptures says the following:

1 Peter 4
[18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Now I don't know about you, but I do know for a fact the following people were considered truly righteous in God's eye:

Heb.11
[4] By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain...
[5] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death...
[7] By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
[8] By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed;
[20] By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
[31] By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
[32] And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
[36] And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
[37] They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
[39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith,

ALL of the above saints died with a good report. All of these saints are righteous according to God. Now do you think they did their best to keep God’s commandments? Of course. Do you think they kept them perfectly? Of course not. And yet the inspired word of God tell us ALL died with a good report. Can you think of a more righteous group than this?

Now if these "SCARCELY be saved", where does that leave you and me?


“And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (And for the record, a sinner is one that BREAKS the laws, commandments and statues of God!)


Please understand,

I’m not asking about being justified by the law, or that it’s impossible to keep ALL of God’s laws, or if you break one you break them all, or having faith, or anything about God’s grace and the blood shed for our PAST sins.

It’s just a simple question

So again I ask:

If a person does all that they can to keep the statues, commandments and laws of God, even if they do not keep them perfectly, will it DECREASE their chances of getting into His kingdom?

“Will keeping God’s laws cause a person NOT to enter into His kingdom?”

Because if keeping God’s laws will NOT decrease my chances, that means it can only HELP!!!!

A very wise man once said;

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Again, God’s word says, “And if the righteous scarcely be saved….”, now shouldn’t we do ALL we can to better our chances! That’s right…..I said DO!

Why?

Because faith alone just does not cut it;

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

EVEN IF YOU DO NOT REPLY……….AT LEAST THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!

.

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Eccl. 12:13, What you have spoken is precisely right.

Allow me to approach it from another direction:

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Matthew 22:37 "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

Romans 13:8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Romans 13:10 "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Romans 8:4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Galatians 5:14 "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another."

1 Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing."

1 Corinthians 8:1b ".... Knowledge puffeth up, but love builds up."

Matthew 5:48 "Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Don't make the mistake of mocking Matthew 5:48

1 Peter 1:16 "because it is written, Ye shall be holy; for I am holy."

Don't excuse your self right out of God's kingdom.

Many miss the fact that what Paul says in Romans chapter 7 is the man before Christ.

But Paul concludes chapter 7 by pointing to Christ and proceeds to tell in chapter eight how we can conquer sin.

Eccl.12:13 said:

Did you know that if a man is not circumcised he will NOT be able to enter into God's kingdom?

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I think you need to supply a Biblical verse for that first before anyone pointlessly reply to your assertion.

Eccl.12:13 said:

And yes....it's in God's word, but it's time for some others to do a little homework for a change.

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The burden of proof is on the ones making the claims.



Only a fool would say, "Here's what the Bible says, now prove it for me".

TexUs said:

I think you need to supply a Biblical verse for that first before anyone pointlessly reply to your assertion.

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They only way I can see it as being true that we must be circumcised in order to be able to enter the kingdom of God, is this:

Romans 2:28-29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."


Philippians 3:2-4 "Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more."

There are many deviant teachings that depend on Paul having actually boasted in his flesh as though it a proper and good thing. But all he was doing in any those cases was basically to say: "look you who are boasting in the flesh and trying to lead the sheep astray, I could, if I wanted to, boast in the flesh more than you for I excelled in my zeal among the Pharisees."

All Paul was doing was trying to cut off occasion from those who were improperly boasting in their flesh and succeeding to mislead others back to that fleshly arrangement which had died.

That is a real sore spot and there are some very serious doctrinal misinterpretations that rest on the wrong belief that Paul actually yet boasted in his flesh.

Eccl.12:13 said:

Did you know that if a man is not circumcised he will NOT be able to enter into God's kingdom?

Yeah....try to get past that?

Readers....let's see what will be the reply.

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Should I believe you or Paul? I'll believe Paul. Christ will profit you nothing Eccl. So who will you go to for salvation? Moses?

Galatians 5:2 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.