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VictoryinJesus

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Most passages describe the wicked being consumed by fire and in describing the return of the Lord some passages say that a fire goes before Him.

Luke 3:16-17 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire: [17] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
 

VictoryinJesus

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.wherever we go we must be prepared to answer what is our hope based on.
Been thinking a lot the past week about this answer of what is our hope. In both of the below it is an answer to those who speak evil of you. Is it then sitting around a table with other believers just speaking about this hope. Or application in sowing where it seems impossible with men but not impossible with God who raises the dead up into light. By The “good conversation” stands out to me because Paul spoke of their knowing the conversation he had in stoning Steven and imprisonments and persecution of the body of Jesus Christ. But then Paul also spoke of having a better conversation more abundantly ...persuaded better things of them. Who persuaded Paul of better things of them if not the Lord? Whom Paul said “I know whom I have believed and trusted”. May seem off topic but goes (Imo) with giving an answer for the hope that is in you and the OP. The vision could be taken multiple ways in what is the hope?
Psalm 119:41-43 Let thy mercies come also unto me, O Lord, even thy salvation, according to thy word. [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. [43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.

Psalm 119:42 Lexicon: So I will have an answer for him who reproaches me, For I trust in Your word.



1 Peter 3:15-16 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: [16] Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
 

Waiting on him

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Could you see warriors with swords drawn charging headlong into battle equipped with love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance? With the helmets of Salvation, the sword of the Spirit held High, the breastplate of righteousness, having feet shod with the gospel of peace?
This is what the first century Christians did.
 
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Heart2Soul

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I have questions here I’ve Been wanting to ask for days but reluctant. When we see power of strength going into a battle what weapons do we see? When He said to put on the whole Armour of God. Which (only an opinion) means the armour should be put on now and not in waiting for some futuristic battle. That sword He said enters the heart, and is a discerner of the hearts; That many hearts shall be revealed. The helmet Salvation. So many questions here in not being sure what someone else sees as: wow that is powerful? Questions concerning: our weapons are not carnal. Questions for example of would we still see the same powerful image of war and battlement with the same wow factor of the Victory and overcoming being raged through:the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance?

would we still get that same expectant readiness for war if the Arsenal and preparation is love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance? Who overcomes with those weapons ...they sound weak yeah? Could you see warriors with swords drawn charging headlong into battle equipped with love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance? With the helmets of Salvation, the sword of the Spirit held High, the breastplate of righteousness, having feet shod with the gospel of peace?


How does the son of light obtain victory over the son of darkness?
The most powerful weapon against our enemy is love...
You may be overlooking the rest of the scripture that goes with putting on our armor....
Ephesians 6 (KJV)
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¹⁰ Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
¹¹ Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
¹² For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
¹³ Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

¹⁴ Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
¹⁵ And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
¹⁶ Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
¹⁷ And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
¹⁸ Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

It is a spiritual battle we are in not physical....when someone is pushing my buttons so to speak I remind myself that I must not give rise to the flesh but use my armor because I am not wrestling against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness....so I have my armor on and when the enemy attacks me (through people) I am prepared to engage in battle and defeat his evil spirits who are trying to get me to strive against my fellow brethren.
I hope this gives a little more clarity to the meaning and purpose of our armor.
 

Heart2Soul

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@VictoryinJesus I believe I could go into spiritual battle using the armor of God, the light of Christ in me, and the fruits of the Holy Spirit to drive away any demonic attack that comes against me....
As I share often with members here on the forum Do Not allown the spirit of strife have any victories when debating theology of scripture...none of us has all the answers. We know in part and see in part but in the end the truth will be made known.
So be accepting of others with the exception of blasphemy when they share their faith. Simply share the Word and let it accomplish what it will without emotional outbursts towards each other.
When I have concluded that there is no hope of reaching an understanding I will say I humbly agree to disagree.
 

michaelvpardo

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I don’t know about scroll descriptions. Never heard of it or read it? A few thoughts on the return of the Lord ...that you may glorify the Lord in that day. 1 Peter 2:11-14 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; [12] Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. [13] Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; [14] Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
I got my hands on one of the first published books about the Dead Sea scrolls quite a while ago and though many are fragmentary, additional copies of some have been found and compared to fill in some of the blanks. I find the scrolls that are non biblical interesting for their insights into the beliefs of the essenes in that time period just prior to the birth of our Lord. The manual of discipline gives some insight into the mindset of the pharisees. What was significant about the find, was that there are biblical texts like the scroll of Isaiah and the books of the law, some of which dated back as far as the Babylonian captivity. The variations between the ancient texts and the modern Hebrew scrolls of the Torah and the prophets was calculated as less than 5% and those variations were primarily copy errors where the Hebrew characters were very similar. This put an end to a few atheistic arguments about the consistency of the content over the millennia and the timing of the bible's authorship.
Like the histories of Josephus, the reading can be tedious but I've gained insight into some of the period references in the gospels by investing some time in reading what little I have. For example, I had no clue about the level of animosity between the Jews and Samaritans suggested by the gospel narratives until reading Josephus. I didn't fully understand Paul's reference to clay pots until reading about the storage method used upon the Dead Sea scrolls. I didn't know that the Roman's called the Dead Sea "lake asphaltitus" until I read Josephus and that large chunks of asphalt were fished out of it for use in medicinal preparations (completely consistent with the account of the valley of Siddim in Genesis chapter 14).
My only point is that while the extrabiblical information couldn't be considered authoritative, it does help us understand the original intent of the authors of some of the scriptures when referencing people, places, and events not found elsewhere in scripture (like references to the book of Enoch. That book is not considered scripture, but the biblical references are,)
 

michaelvpardo

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Been thinking a lot the past week about this answer of what is our hope. In both of the below it is an answer to those who speak evil of you. Is it then sitting around a table with other believers just speaking about this hope. Or application in sowing where it seems impossible with men but not impossible with God who raises the dead up into light. By The “good conversation” stands out to me because Paul spoke of their knowing the conversation he had in stoning Steven and imprisonments and persecution of the body of Jesus Christ. But then Paul also spoke of having a better conversation more abundantly ...persuaded better things of them. Who persuaded Paul of better things of them if not the Lord? Whom Paul said “I know whom I have believed and trusted”. May seem off topic but goes (Imo) with giving an answer for the hope that is in you and the OP. The vision could be taken multiple ways in what is the hope?
Psalm 119:41-43 Let thy mercies come also unto me, O Lord, even thy salvation, according to thy word. [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. [43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.

Psalm 119:42 Lexicon: So I will have an answer for him who reproaches me, For I trust in Your word.



1 Peter 3:15-16 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: [16] Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:27

through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:2

the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, Ephesians 1:18

But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!” Acts 23:6
In the context of 1st Peter chapter 3, I think that you can take your pick, but I believe that the main point of those verses is that while born again Christians have hope in God, unbelievers (in the gospel of salvation) have nothing to hope in, or no assurance of such hope. Eg: even some professing Christians have no hope in the assurance of salvation and the promises of Jesus regarding eternal life, because the final propitiation of sin at the cross isn't part of their understanding, nor have they apprehended the complete gospel (it's more than John 3:16.)
 

Heart2Soul

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To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:27

through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:2

the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, Ephesians 1:18

But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!” Acts 23:6
In the context of 1st Peter chapter 3, I think that you can take your pick, but I believe that the main point of those verses is that while born again Christians have hope in God, unbelievers (in the gospel of salvation) have nothing to hope in, or no assurance of such hope. Eg: even some professing Christians have no hope in the assurance of salvation and the promises of Jesus regarding eternal life, because the final propitiation of sin at the cross isn't part of their understanding, nor have they apprehended the complete gospel (it's more than John 3:16.)
Revelation 12 (KJV)
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¹⁰ And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
¹¹ And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
¹² Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

I love how this is presented ....
Now is come...Salvation and strength. The Kingdom of God, and the power of his Christ...
And they (we, the brethren) overcame by the Blood of the Lamb and the Word of their testimony......

When we share our testimony of the gift of salvation through Jesus it gives those who hear and receive it hope for a life eternal in heaven...our testimony of miracles brings hope to those who need healing....or whatever...for what He has done for us He will do for them.....
Hope...faith is the substance (reality) of things hoped for....the evidence (proof) of things not yet seen.
 
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dev553344

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Revelation 12 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁰ And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
¹¹ And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
¹² Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

I love how this is presented ....
Now is come...Salvation and strength. The Kingdom of God, and the power of his Christ...
And they (we, the brethren) overcame by the Blood of the Lamb and the Word of their testimony......

When we share our testimony of the gift of salvation through Jesus it gives those who hear and receive it hope for a life eternal in heaven...our testimony of miracles brings hope to those who need healing....or whatever...for what He has done for us He will do for them.....
Hope...faith is the substance (reality) of things hoped for....the evidence (proof) of things not yet seen.

Well I think that a lot of revelation has already taken place, but obviously not all. I was sealed by the Lord around 6 years ago. And I believe in the Lords return shortly.
 

michaelvpardo

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@VictoryinJesus I believe I could go into spiritual battle using the armor of God, the light of Christ in me, and the fruits of the Holy Spirit to drive away any demonic attack that comes against me....
As I share often with members here on the forum Do Not allown the spirit of strife have any victories when debating theology of scripture...none of us has all the answers. We know in part and see in part but in the end the truth will be made known.
So be accepting of others with the exception of blasphemy when they share their faith. Simply share the Word and let it accomplish what it will without emotional outbursts towards each other.
When I have concluded that there is no hope of reaching an understanding I will say I humbly agree to disagree.
It's hard to get away from contentiousness in on line forums because there's very little accountability (I've never experienced the same sort of mean spirited apologetics in a church bible study, people wouldn't dare.)
However, there is a purpose in such things:
For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 1 Corinthians 11:19
Unfortunately, in these forums with a constant flux of newcomers and members abandoning the site in frustration, contention becomes the standard instead of peace.
 
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Heart2Soul

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It's hard to get away from contentiousness in on line forums because there's very little accountability (I've never experienced the same sort of mean spirited apologetics in a church bible study, people wouldn't dare.)
However, there is a purpose in such things:
For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 1 Corinthians 11:19
Unfortunately, in these forums with a constant flux of newcomers and members abandoning the site in frustration, contention becomes the standard instead of peace.
Would these be the tares?
Ahhh the newbies....some are genuine in their search for Godly fellowship but those who come guns blazing and start striving against others beliefs don't last long.
 

Heart2Soul

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Well I think that a lot of revelation has already taken place, but obviously not all. I was sealed by the Lord around 6 years ago. And I believe in the Lords return shortly.
Waiting on a couple prophesies to be fulfilled.
 
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michaelvpardo

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Would these be the tares?
Ahhh the newbies....some are genuine in their search for Godly fellowship but those who come guns blazing and start striving against others beliefs don't last long.
Babes in Christ naturally hunger for "the milk of the word". The analogy exists because it is true. However, growth comes with a hunger for something more substantial, "the meat" of the word. I believe that this is where we tend to get in trouble. We tend to think of the meat as the deeper meaning of scripture, but I would suggest that such deeper meaning is "hidden manna", angel food, things which the angels desire to look into, and that the "meat" of the word has more to do with the spiritual application of it:
31 In the meantime His disciples urged Him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.”
32 But He said to them, “I have food to eat of which you do not know.”
33 Therefore the disciples said to one another, “Has anyone brought Him anything to eat?”
34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. 35 Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! 36 And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37 For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38 I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”
John 4:31-38
I don't expect most here to accept this understanding of mine. It makes almost all of us look like vain fools looking to impress others with our "discoveries" rather than mutual edification. Who will receive the greater honor at the Bema seat, the scholars, or the doers of God's work?
 
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amigo de christo

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Darkness is the absence of light. Where the is light darkness does not exist.
A good example
I meant to explain this picture...the fire of.the match is light and does not cast a shadow...proof of the power of light.
and how much greater , thus , is the Light of Christ . Which can purge even the darkness of the soul , right out of a man who does Believe .
Time to mount up and point to Christ and He alone as the only means and only name whereby one can be saved .
For i have never seen the true gospel under such attack , and that by even more and more within christendom .
Many are falling for a false ruse of a gospel , a hope that has them to believe that all will be saved , even if they deny Christ
and follow another religoin . And that my friend is known not just as a lie , BUT THE LIE . And it comes from satan .
FOR he does know WHO JESUS IS and thus is doing all to convince not only the world
but even christendom to follow an all inclusive god which claims all paths as valid so long as one does good .
What a farce that lie is . But you would marvel at the number of people , even within , dare i say , Christendom
who is and have began falling for this lie . My advice , LET us not once fall for it .
 

amigo de christo

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Though the world join as one with all her religions and claim all follow the one true GOD ,
i tell us GOD will not DENY the SON . Though hand join in hand and the number grows daily ,
REMEMBER YE THE WORDS , GOD WILL NOT DENY THE SON NOR THE SON THE FATHER .
Throughout torah , the law and even the prophets pointed to one hope , one savoir , JESUS CHRIST .
SO while many claim GOD is massive , HUGE and we cannot fathom the things that be of GOD .
REMEMBER THIS , YES GOD IS MASSIVE < HUGE , but Never big enough to DENY THE SON as the absolute
only means to attain salvation . HIS LOVE IS MASSIVE , BUT HIS LOVE POINTS TO CHRIST and says , BELIEVE YE IN HIM
and have eternal life , Deny HIM and face damnation . FORWARD MARCH , for any love
that omits the dire necessity of having to believe in Christ , of having to confess him by mouth
and believe from the heart that GOD rose Him from the dead . IS NEITHER LOVE NOR COMES FROM GOD .
AND I STAND ON THAT , AND THAT GOSPLE ALONE .
 

VictoryinJesus

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Babes in Christ naturally hunger for "the milk of the word". The analogy exists because it is true. However, growth comes with a hunger for something more substantial, "the meat" of the word. I believe that this is where we tend to get in trouble. We tend to think of the meat as the deeper meaning of scripture, but I would suggest that such deeper meaning is "hidden manna", angel food, things which the angels desire to look into, and that the "meat" of the word has more to do with the spiritual application of it:
31 In the meantime His disciples urged Him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.”
32 But He said to them, “I have food to eat of which you do not know.”
33 Therefore the disciples said to one another, “Has anyone brought Him anything to eat?”
34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. 35 Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! 36 And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37 For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38 I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”
John 4:31-38
I don't expect most here to accept this understanding of mine. It makes almost all of us look like vain fools looking to impress others with our "discoveries" rather than mutual edification. Who will receive the greater honor at the Bema seat, the scholars, or the doers of God's work?

great post, all of it. “I don't expect most here to accept this understanding of mine. It makes almost all of us look like vain fools looking to impress others with our "discoveries" rather than mutual edification. Who will receive the greater honor at the Bema seat, the scholars, or the doers of God's work?”

Guilty of it also. I don’t know why except maybe wanting someplace to belong and to be accepted. To be useful. To have a purpose. But (Imo) you nailed it. “all the discoveries” can often puff up ...where “mural edification” builds. Thank you for the reminder.

Lately, I’m even questionable about the verse “it is the glory of God to conceal a thing” being “discoveries” as discoveries being the glory. With Proverbs 11:13 A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.
 

amigo de christo

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Would these be the tares?
Ahhh the newbies....some are genuine in their search for Godly fellowship but those who come guns blazing and start striving against others beliefs don't last long.
Its real simple . Destroy the foundation of any false belief , leave the name calling out of it .
I come against false institutions . But i am not mean to anyone . But rest assured i will warn against any false system , as we must do so .
For if we love the peoples , we correct the peoples . Desiring none to perish . Thus yeah , i do often remind folks
to flee certain systems and doctrines . Now i have to give the reminder of what time it is .
The TOD , or TIME ON DECK IS , LIFT THOSE HANDS AND PRAISE THE GLORIOUS , WONDEROUS , MAGNIFICENT
LORD . Yep .
 

michaelvpardo

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great post, all of it. “I don't expect most here to accept this understanding of mine. It makes almost all of us look like vain fools looking to impress others with our "discoveries" rather than mutual edification. Who will receive the greater honor at the Bema seat, the scholars, or the doers of God's work?”

Guilty of it also. I don’t know why except maybe wanting someplace to belong and to be accepted. To be useful. To have a purpose. But (Imo) you nailed it. “all the discoveries” can often puff up ...where “mural edification” builds. Thank you for the reminder.

Lately, I’m even questionable about the verse “it is the glory of God to conceal a thing” being “discoveries” as discoveries being the glory. With Proverbs 11:13 A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.
We all have a purpose in the body of Christ, but we don't determine it. The Lord does. The Lord calls us, places us, equips us, guides us, and empowers us, all for His glory and according to His purposes. The thing is, we don't automatically know just what our calling is, but discover it through the exercise of His gifts and the guiding of His Spirit. The Lord leads us in the path of His choosing and graciously waits for us when we stumble or loose sight of Him and make a wrong turn. He lifts us up when we fall.He seeks us out when lost. He renews our strength when we are weary and might faint along the way. It's all Him and to God alone be the glory. Amen
 
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