Is The Mosaic Law Passed Away ??

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dan p

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Mar 26, 2009
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Hi to all, and many believers say that the Law has been set aside but that the 10 commandments are still in force .

#1 , With the setting aside of the Law , it demands something new or change .

#2 , Paul , says all that keep the Law are fallen from Grace , in Gal 5:4 .

#3 , and I will show verse that the sins under the Old Covenant had to be PAID FOR .

#4 , I n Heb 9:15 we see the following ;

a) Christ is a mediator of a New Covenant !
B) We see in Heb 8:7 - 13 that the Old Covenant is to replace the Old Covenant .
c) The New Covenant is yet future , in the Millennium >
d) That when Christ died , He redeemed ALL THE TRANSGRESSION committed under the FIRST TESTAMENT or the OLD Covenant .
e) This means that Christ PAID for all the sins committed under the Old Covenant .
f) This means that the Mosaic Law was all set ASIDE , PURE AND SIMPLE .
g) This means that Baptism is no longer VALID , per Eph 4:5 , only one baptism .
h) Tongues are out .
i) Visions are out , 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
j) Prophecy is out , 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
k) Gift of Knowledge is out 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
 

charlesj

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Sep 13, 2010
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Hi to all, and many believers say that the Law has been set aside but that the 10 commandments are still in force .

#1 , With the setting aside of the Law , it demands something new or change .

#2 , Paul , says all that keep the Law are fallen from Grace , in Gal 5:4 .

#3 , and I will show verse that the sins under the Old Covenant had to be PAID FOR .

#4 , I n Heb 9:15 we see the following ;

a) Christ is a mediator of a New Covenant !
B) We see in Heb 8:7 - 13 that the Old Covenant is to replace the Old Covenant .
c) The New Covenant is yet future , in the Millennium >
d) That when Christ died , He redeemed ALL THE TRANSGRESSION committed under the FIRST TESTAMENT or the OLD Covenant .
e) This means that Christ PAID for all the sins committed under the Old Covenant .
f) This means that the Mosaic Law was all set ASIDE , PURE AND SIMPLE .
g) This means that Baptism is no longer VALID , per Eph 4:5 , only one baptism .
h) Tongues are out .
i) Visions are out , 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
j) Prophecy is out , 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
k) Gift of Knowledge is out 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .


Hello Dan P:
When you say "Mosiac Law" are you referring to the Tanakh as a whole, or you referring to just the Ten Words? We Gentiles call them the 10 commandments, but God calls them the Ten Words (Decalogue in Greek, deca = 10, logue = words). Notice the apostle Paul called it "Torah" (which is the five books of Moses, Gen, Ex., Lev, Num, & Deut)
I am not trying to prove you right or wrong. You quoted Gal 5:4.

I am going to quote Gal 5:1-4 from the "Complete Jewish Bible": (Please read the four verses in "context" and see what Paul is referring to.)

Gal. 5 [sup]1 "[/sup]What the Messiah has freed us for is freedom! Therefore, stand firm, and don’t let yourselves be tied up again to a yoke of slavery. [sup]2 [/sup]Mark my words—I, Sha’ul, tell you that if you undergo b’rit-milah the Messiah will be of no advantage to you at all! [sup]3 [/sup]Again, I warn you: any man who undergoes b’rit-milah is obligated to observe the entire Torah! 4 you who are trying to be declared righteous by God through legalism have severed yourselves from the Messiah! You have fallen away from God’s grace!"

Let's examine this passage. Take a look at verse 3 and Paul is telling the Galatians that if they are circumcised (b'rit-milah) then Messiah will be no advantage to you at all. And verse 4 tells us that these Galatians are trying to be righteous through an "act"... that is, legalism and if this is so, then you are severed from the Messiah. Paul is dealing with the mis-use of Torah and not doing away with Torah.
Does that make sense to you?

Remember we Gentiles call the tanakh the "old testament." The apostles and Messiah call them "Scriptures." Also, when Chirst was on earth, that's all they had to teach and preach from. The New Testament had not been written yet. All the apostles and Christ had was the tanakh. (Torah, Prophets & Writings).

Under point "a" you say that Christ is a mediator of the New Covenant, but in point "c" you say the new covenant is yet future??? You can't have it both ways. LOL
And then you put the new covenant in some millennium? I tell you, my friend, if Messiah hasn't sealed the New Covenant with His Blood,(NOW IN THIS AGE) then we are lost in our sins and without hope.

I have other comments, but will save them.

May the Lord be with you and may He bless you,
Charles
 
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dan p

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[

Under point "a" you say that Christ is a mediator of the New Covenant, but in point "c" you say the new covenant is yet future??? You can't have it both ways. LOL
And then you put the new covenant in some millennium? I tell you, my friend, if Messiah hasn't sealed the New Covenant with His Blood,(NOW IN THIS AGE) then we are lost in our sins and without hope.

I have other comments, but will save them.

May the Lord be with you and may He bless you,
Charles
[/size]
[/quote]

Hi charles , and I believe that many things in the Bible show a Newr View and a Far view .

Just to mentiona few !

#1 , Israel has been set aside for over 1900 years and Acts 13:48 ; 18:6 and 28:25 - 29 is proof ., and there is a GAP between Jews and Gentiles .

#2 , One of the most famous texts that Jesus read is in Luke 4:16: - 20 , and this concerns Israel .


#3 , Another gap , with a near view and far view is in Gensis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 .

#4 , and where do you see in Jan 17 , 2011 , where the New Covenant is in Operation today ???
 

Martin W.

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Jan 16, 2009
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Hi to all, and many believers say that the Law has been set aside but that the 10 commandments are still in force .

#1 , With the setting aside of the Law , it demands something new or change .

#2 , Paul , says all that keep the Law are fallen from Grace , in Gal 5:4 .

#3 , and I will show verse that the sins under the Old Covenant had to be PAID FOR .

#4 , I n Heb 9:15 we see the following ;

a) Christ is a mediator of a New Covenant !
B) We see in Heb 8:7 - 13 that the Old Covenant is to replace the Old Covenant .
c) The New Covenant is yet future , in the Millennium >
d) That when Christ died , He redeemed ALL THE TRANSGRESSION committed under the FIRST TESTAMENT or the OLD Covenant .
e) This means that Christ PAID for all the sins committed under the Old Covenant .
f) This means that the Mosaic Law was all set ASIDE , PURE AND SIMPLE .
g) This means that Baptism is no longer VALID , per Eph 4:5 , only one baptism .

hi dan p

Ephesians 4:2-6 is talking about keep unity (believers)
There is ..... one body ... and one Spirit, ... one Lord, .... one faith, ... one baptism; .... one God and Father of all,
It is not saying baptism has ended.


Tongues are out .
i) Visions are out , 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
j) Prophecy is out , 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
k) Gift of Knowledge is out 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
Corinthians is addressing the fact that Love never ends , it is not saying that prophecy , visions , knowledge and tongues have ended.

Heb 8:7 - 13 the first covenant was not faultless because we humans cannot keep it perfectly. That is the whole point of the law , it makes us realize we need a perfect savior to redeem us. We cannot redeem ourselves by following the law. Try as we might.
 

dan p

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Mar 26, 2009
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hi dan p

Ephesians 4:2-6 is talking about keep unity (believers)
There is ..... one body ... and one Spirit, ... one Lord, .... one faith, ... one baptism; .... one God and Father of all,
It is not saying baptism has ended.



Corinthians is addressing the fact that Love never ends , it is not saying that prophecy , visions , knowledge and tongues have ended.

Heb 8:7 - 13 the first covenant was not faultless because we humans cannot keep it perfectly. That is the whole point of the law , it makes us realize we need a perfect savior to redeem us. We cannot redeem ourselves by following the law. Try as we might.


Hi Martin W , in Eph 4:5 what does one in your theology mean ??
When it says ONE , Body , Spirit , baptism and God and Father ??
 

charlesj

Member
Sep 13, 2010
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San Antonio, Texas
Under point "a" you say that Christ is a mediator of the New Covenant, but in point "c" you say the new covenant is yet future??? You can't have it both ways. LOL
And then you put the new covenant in some millennium? I tell you, my friend, if Messiah hasn't sealed the New Covenant with His Blood,(NOW IN THIS AGE) then we are lost in our sins and without hope.

I have other comments, but will save them.

May the Lord be with you and may He bless you,
Charles
[/size]
[/quote]

Hi charles , and I believe that many things in the Bible show a Newr View and a Far view .

Just to mentiona few !

#1 , Israel has been set aside for over 1900 years and Acts 13:48 ; 18:6 and 28:25 - 29 is proof ., and there is a GAP between Jews and Gentiles .

#2 , One of the most famous texts that Jesus read is in Luke 4:16: - 20 , and this concerns Israel .


#3 , Another gap , with a near view and far view is in Gensis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 .

#4 , and where do you see in Jan 17 , 2011 , where the New Covenant is in Operation today ???
[/quote]

Hi charles , and I believe that many things in the Bible show a Newr View and a Far view .

Just to mentiona few !

#1 , Israel has been set aside for over 1900 years and Acts 13:48 ; 18:6 and 28:25 - 29 is proof ., and there is a GAP between Jews and Gentiles .

#2 , One of the most famous texts that Jesus read is in Luke 4:16: - 20 , and this concerns Israel .


#3 , Another gap , with a near view and far view is in Gensis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 .

#4 , and where do you see in Jan 17 , 2011 , where the New Covenant is in Operation today ???

This post has been edited by dan p: Today, 12:17 PM





Hey Dan:

I am not really sure what you mean by “I believe that many things in the Bible show a Newr View and a Far view .” I am guessing you mean “Newr” as this age? And “Far view” as future??



I am going to respond to your 4 points. (I will quote from the Complete Jewish Bible)



Point 1: You said that Israel has been “set aside for over 1900 years and then you show scripture references Acts 13:48; 18:6 & 285-29 and claim these scriptures are proof that there is a “gap” between Jews & Gentiles.



[sup]Acts 13:44[/sup][sup] [/sup]The next Shabbat, nearly the whole city gathered together to hear the message about the Lord; [sup]45 [/sup]but when the Jews who had not believed saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and spoke up against what Sha’ul was saying and insulted him. [sup]46 [/sup]However, Sha’ul and Bar-Nabba answered boldly: “It was necessary that God’s word be spoken first to you. But since you are rejecting it and are judging yourselves unworthy of eternal life—why, we’re turning to the Goyim! [sup]47 [/sup]For that is what Adonai has ordered us to do:

‘I have set you as a light for the Goyim,

to be for deliverance to the ends of the earth.’ ”

[sup]48 [/sup]The Gentiles were very happy to hear this. They honored the message about the Lord, and as many as had been appointed to eternal life came to trust. [sup]49 [/sup]And the message about the Lord was carried throughout the whole region.

Dan, I don’t need to quote much further than what I’ve shown above, Acts 13:44FF to show what you are calling “proof” to be in error.

Remember now, in Acts 13, the apostle Paul (was with John, Barnabas & probably Luke. Barnabas was from Cyprus.) is on Paul’s “first missionary journey.” Paul had just left Cyprus, (by the way, he preached Jesus to the whole Island, to Jews & Gentiles). Guess where he preached while on the island? The synagogues!! (Acts 13:5) Who was in the synagogues??? JEWS (and Jewish converts) What did he preach to them? JESUS! (Yeshua) then he left the island of Cyprus and went over to Perga in Pamphylia. (John got cold feet here in Perga and left Paul, Luke and Barnabus and went home, Jerusalem, to mama at this time. This will cause a big problem later between Paul & Barnabus, Acts 15:37ff. John is a cousin to Barnabas)



Ok, after they left Perga that went the Pisidian Antioch to another “synagogue” on the Sabbath day. By the way, Paul’s “custom” (Acts 17:2) was to always go to a synagogue, if there is one in the city. (To have a synagogue it required to have at least 10 Jewish men.)

In this city, Pisidian Antioch, Paul preached a long sermon detailing some history of the Jews leaving Egypt etc and then goes through some kings of Israel, such as David, (v.22) and in Acts 13:23 Paul tells the Jews “from the offspring (David’s offspring) of this man, ACCORDING TO PROMISE, God HAS BROUGHT ISRAEL A SAVIOR, JESUS.” (v.24)..after John had proclaimed before His coming a baptism of repentance to ALL THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL.

V. 26 Paul continues his sermon and calls the Jews, “sons of Abraham…” and also to those who fear God (Jewish proselytes) …TO US (JEWS) the word of this SALVATION IS SENT OUT.”

Now keep up with the context of this chapter, Paul is speaking to JEWS thus far in the synagogue.

Paul in verse 27 speaks of the Jews in Jerusalem and their rulers and how they didn’t recognize the Messiah, they crucified Him. (Vs 27-29) and verse 30, 31 Paul tells them that Yahweh raised His Son, Jesus.

Paul tells them in verse 31 that Messiah appeared to the apostles (who are now witnesses to the Jews, people.)

Now Paul, verse 32, tells the Jews, “and we (apostles) preach to you (Jews) the gospel of the PROMISE MADE TO THE FATHERS. (If you want to see who the “fathers” of the Jews are see Deut 1:8; Ex 3:15 and many more.)

This “promise to the fathers” is being FULFILLED at this time!! Not some time in the future! THIS AGE it is going on!



Paul now quotes Psalms 2:7ff and tells the Jews “…God HAS FULFILLED THIS PROMISE to our children (Jewish to core) …

Paul goes on and preaches more. Please read Acts 13:34ff and remember who Paul is speaking to in context.

As Paul finished this sermon/history, the Jews BEGGED him (and Barnabus) to speak again next Sabbath (in the synagogue).



Now the next Sabbath, word had spread to the whole city, and that is what showed up at the synagogue. (V. 44). This was made up of Jew and Gentile. This great crowd wanted to hear MORE about Yeshua! Of course, the old carnal Jews were jealous.

Paul addressed the jealous Jews and told them, the Jew was to receive the gospel first and that was the instruction from God. (v.46)

Since you (Jews, the carnal ones) reject Messiah, “…we (Paul & Barnabus) are turning to the Gentles.” (13:46) This would be a good time to look at Romans 1:16 where Paul says, “...I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the ‘power of God’ to EVERYONE who believes, TO THE JEW FIRST and also to the Greeks (Gentiles).



I think we forget that the assembly (church) stated in Acts 2 and many Jews were saved. Acts 6:7 tells us that many “priests” (Levites) obeyed the faith (gospel). For the first 10 years there was nothing in the church except converts of Jews (and Jewish proselytes). It wasn’t until Acts 10 that the first Gentile is converted, Cornelius.

Dan, I have written to much. I did not start out wanting to write this much. I will continue you other points (2,3) and end by talking about point 4 where you ask the question “…where the New Covenant is in Operation today ???”



The New Covenant has terms in it made by Yahweh. The New Covenant is spiritual in that when one “obeys” the terms of the New Covenant (some terms Rom 6:3ff; John 3:3; 3:5, Acts 2:38; 1Peter 3:20ff, etc) they become spiritual, that is, they are transferred from the kingdom of this world into the Kingdom of the Son. They are transferred from the kingdom of death to the Kingdom of Life. Many of the Jews, a remnant, obeyed the gospel. These Jews who obeyed the gospel are the one’s Yahweh made a covenant with. We Gentiles are grafted into that covenant.



May the Lord be with you and me,

Charles











 

dan p

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Mar 26, 2009
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Dan, I don’t need to quote much further than what I’ve shown above, Acts 13:44FF to show what you are calling “proof” to be in error.

Remember now, in Acts 13, the apostle Paul (was with John, Barnabas & probably Luke. Barnabas was from Cyprus.) is on Paul’s “first missionary journey.” Paul had just left Cyprus, (by the way, he preached Jesus to the whole Island, to Jews & Gentiles). Guess where he preached while on the island? The synagogues!! (Acts 13:5) Who was in the synagogues??? JEWS (and Jewish converts) What did he preach to them? JESUS! (Yeshua) then he left the island of Cyprus and went over to Perga in Pamphylia. (John got cold feet here in Perga and left Paul, Luke and Barnabus and went home, Jerusalem, to mama at this time. This will cause a big problem later between Paul & Barnabus, Acts 15:37ff. John is a cousin to Barnabas)



Ok, after they left Perga that went the Pisidian Antioch to another “synagogue” on the Sabbath day. By the way, Paul’s “custom” (Acts 17:2) was to always go to a synagogue, if there is one in the city. (To have a synagogue it required to have at least 10 Jewish men.)

[ Hi Charles , and please remember that Salvation is of the Jew .

Paul , did go to the synagogues and preach to the Jew .

But in Acts 13 never preach Grace to them , and lets see where a verse is for that ??


In Acts 13:46 lets all know why Paul was preaching to them , " It was necessary that the word of God should FIRST have been spoken to you , but seeing ye put it away from you , and judge yourselves UNWORTHY of everlasting life , lo we turn to the Gentiles .

It is implying to the Jew first , then the Gentile .

In Acts 9::15 is where Pauls commission is to be found in nearly Acts , " to bear His name before the GENTILES , kINGS , and the children of Israel .
 

Pato

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Mar 29, 2011
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Hi to all, and many believers say that the Law has been set aside but that the 10 commandments are still in force .

#1 , With the setting aside of the Law , it demands something new or change .

#2 , Paul , says all that keep the Law are fallen from Grace , in Gal 5:4 .

#3 , and I will show verse that the sins under the Old Covenant had to be PAID FOR .

#4 , I n Heb 9:15 we see the following ;

a) Christ is a mediator of a New Covenant !
B) We see in Heb 8:7 - 13 that the Old Covenant is to replace the Old Covenant .
c) The New Covenant is yet future , in the Millennium >
d) That when Christ died , He redeemed ALL THE TRANSGRESSION committed under the FIRST TESTAMENT or the OLD Covenant .
e) This means that Christ PAID for all the sins committed under the Old Covenant .
f) This means that the Mosaic Law was all set ASIDE , PURE AND SIMPLE .
g) This means that Baptism is no longer VALID , per Eph 4:5 , only one baptism .
h) Tongues are out .
i) Visions are out , 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
j) Prophecy is out , 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
k) Gift of Knowledge is out 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .


danp...I'm at a lost for words when I read your OPs....seriously. I have a question for you. What are the covenants both old and new? What is a covenant?
You say that Paul says all who KEEP the law are fallen from grace? Where is this in scripture danp? Do you know or understand what justification means?
This is what Paul was talking about. No one can be justified by keeping the law. The rest of your post is just....?????.
 

RichardBurger

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danp...I'm at a lost for words when I read your OPs....seriously. I have a question for you. What are the covenants both old and new? What is a covenant?
You say that Paul says all who KEEP the law are fallen from grace? Where is this in scripture danp? Do you know or understand what justification means?
This is what Paul was talking about. No one can be justified by keeping the law. The rest of your post is just....?????.

Where in the Bible does it say the NEW COVENANT was made to the Gentiles? Is that a fact or assumtion?
 

Tehilah BaAretz

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It just goes on and on... Those who wish to replace the apple of God's eye with themselves cannot be convinced that God loves the Jewish people. Nobody will change their minds against their wills. At the end, God will reveal the truth. I'm not taking any chances that God will find me guilty of faithlessness or failure to love. Jesus responded to the question of what was the most important thing in God's eyes. He said that we should love God with our whole hearts and that we should love each other too. I plan to work on "Law #1" for the rest of my life. (Check it out, this law is recorded in Torah!)
 

RichardBurger

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Why wouldn't the NT be for Gentiles? Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles. He wrote much of the NT.


He didn't write all of it.

The Scriptures say that Paul is the Apostle sent to the Gentiles but where do they say the 12 were sent to the Gentiles?

It just goes on and on... Those who wish to replace the apple of God's eye with themselves cannot be convinced that God loves the Jewish people. Nobody will change their minds against their wills. At the end, God will reveal the truth. I'm not taking any chances that God will find me guilty of faithlessness or failure to love. Jesus responded to the question of what was the most important thing in God's eyes. He said that we should love God with our whole hearts and that we should love each other too. I plan to work on "Law #1" for the rest of my life. (Check it out, this law is recorded in Torah!)

God has already revealed the truth. The truth for this age is that because the Jews rejected His Son He is displeased with them and turned to the Gentiles. Soon He will become displeased with the Gentiles too.

For this age God's plan to save mankind is in the work of His Son, Jesus Christ, on the cross. Faith, trust, confidence in Jesus' shed blood on the cross is the only means whereby a person can be saved in this age.
 

RichardBurger

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Galatians 2:7-9
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
NKJV

If the gospels were the same in verse 7 why does it indicate they are not?)

Why do people, today, ignore the fact there was an agreement made in verse 9 above? Did James, Cephas, and John go back on the agreement? Why did the RC build their church on the Apostles instead of Paul? Was it because of the Judizers?
 

Eccl.12:13

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#2 , Paul , says all that keep the Law are fallen from Grace , in Gal 5:4 .

Rom.7
[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Sooooo.....do you think Paul kept THIS law?

1 Cor.5
[9] I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

And what about all of the above? Are these not laws that Paul advises to keep?

1 Cor.6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul tells them that they USED to do these things. Why did they stop? What is wrong with such actions? Could it be that ALL of the above are sins? And sin is the breaking of God's laws?
Are these not the laws of God Paul is telling them about.

Col.3
[5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[6] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
[7] In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

Paul tells them that they USED to do the things he mentioned but he is telling them to stay away from such acts not. Is that not keeping God's laws? Is that not obeying?

1 Cor.6
[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.

WAIT ONE SECOND!!! Please tell me this is not the great Paul telling some to keep a commandment/law of God? I thought they were nailed to His cross!!


Are you SURE Paul means, "...all that keep the Law are fallen from Grace."?

Because if so....PAul have sure led a lot of people in the wrong direction.



.
 

Duckybill

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Are you SURE Paul means, "...all that keep the Law are fallen from Grace."?
Galatians 5:2-4 (ESV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. [sup]3 [/sup]I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. [sup]4 [/sup]You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

 

Tehilah BaAretz

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For this age God's plan to save mankind is in the work of His Son, Jesus Christ, on the cross. Faith, trust, confidence in Jesus' shed blood on the cross is the only means whereby a person can be saved in this age.

There never was a different plan of salvation. Nobody was ever saved by the sacrifices in the Temple. It has always been faith by God's grace alone. That's the original covenant. If you want to claim a new covenant, you need to base it on something else. So, since you are saying that you are not saved under the terms of God's original covenant, how did you get saved?
 

Eccl.12:13

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Galatians 5:2-4 (ESV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. [sup]3 [/sup]I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. [sup]4 [/sup]You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.



God tells us the following...

Isa.66
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

But we are also told in order for that to happen the following MUST take place...



Ezek.44
[9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

So how will someone be able to obey God's commandment of coming to worship Him and NOT be circumcised in heart OR flesh?

Paul is not saying do not get circumcised. Paul is saying whether you are circumcised or uncircumcised, if you do not have faith which works through love, being circumcised will not matter. Christ will not see you any different just because you get circumcised.
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RichardBurger

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Jan 23, 2008
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There never was a different plan of salvation. Nobody was ever saved by the sacrifices in the Temple. It has always been faith by God's grace alone. That's the original covenant. If you want to claim a new covenant, you need to base it on something else. So, since you are saying that you are not saved under the terms of God's original covenant, how did you get saved?

I disagree with you when you say that therir has never been but one plan of salvation but I realize you will not change what you believe.

Jesus saved me when I placed ALL my belief, faith, trust and confidence in His work on the cross; His shed blood. Salvation is the work of God.

Romans 10:4-12
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them."
6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 or, "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
NKJV

But this is to simple for the religious. They want their efforts to account for something. They just can't deny that they can do something to help save themselves.

God tells us the following...

Isa.66
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

But we are also told in order for that to happen the following MUST take place...



Ezek.44
[9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

So how will someone be able to obey God's commandment of coming to worship Him and NOT be circumcised in heart OR flesh?

Paul is not saying do not get circumcised. Paul is saying whether you are circumcised or uncircumcised, if you do not have faith which works through love, being circumcised will not matter. Christ will not see you any different just because you get circumcised.
.


You said "if you do not have faith which works through love." My question to you is whose love is this talking about? If man's love then it is folly. I feel it is saying that faith works through God's love for us as seen by the work of His Son on the cross.
 

Pato

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Mar 29, 2011
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Galatians 2:7-9
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
NKJV

If the gospels were the same in verse 7 why does it indicate they are not?)

Why do people, today, ignore the fact there was an agreement made in verse 9 above? Did James, Cephas, and John go back on the agreement? Why did the RC build their church on the Apostles instead of Paul? Was it because of the Judizers?


I honestly have no idea what you are referring to I made no mention of this...