Is The Mosaic Law Passed Away ??

Duckybill · Jul 12, 2011

Eccl.12:13 said:
So please tell us the meaning of God's words from the OT above.

The simple explanation is that you don't know which Covenant you are under and what you are preaching is a form of Judaism, not Christian. What you are preaching is "obsolete"!

Hebrews 8:13 (ESV)
[sup]13 [/sup]In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete.

veteran · Jul 12, 2011

Yep, the Old Covenant requirement for flesh circumcision is now obsolete, doing it or not doing it does not involve Christ's Salvation per The New Covenant.

But flesh circumcision for males is a healthy practice, which is a medical fact.

The type circumcision those in Christ Jesus are to now have is circumcision of the heart, a spiritual circumcision.

Eccl.12:13 · Jul 12, 2011

Duckybill said:
The simple explanation is that you don't know which Covenant you are under and what you are preaching is a form of Judaism, not Christian. What you are preaching is "obsolete"!

Hebrews 8:13 (ESV)
[sup]13 [/sup]In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete.

Please explain this FUTURE event to the readers....

Ezek.44
[9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

.

Duckybill · Jul 12, 2011

Eccl.12:13 said:
Please explain this FUTURE event to the readers....

Ezek.44
[9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

What do you mean by future? After the New Covenant era?

Eccl.12:13 · Jul 12, 2011

Duckybill said:
What do you mean by future? After the New Covenant era?[/size]

Ezek.44
[9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

This verse is speaking about an event that is YET to happen! This vision given to Ezekiel is during Jesus Christ 1000yr rule here on earth! This event has NOT happened yet! You did not know this?

This even goes into telling us that God will once again bring back the Levitical Preisthood....that's right! There will the sacrificing of animals here on earth once again. YES! Even AFTER Jesus had died for our sins.

You did not know this?

Duckybill · Jul 12, 2011

Eccl.12:13 said:
This verse is speaking about an event that is YET to happen! This vision given to Ezekiel is during Jesus Christ 1000yr rule here on earth! This event has NOT happened yet! You did not know this?

This even goes into telling us that God will once again bring back the Levitical Preisthood....that's right! There will the sacrificing of animals here on earth once again. YES! Even AFTER Jesus had died for our sins.

You did not know this?

I know that you did not answer my question:

"What do you mean by future? After the New Covenant era?"

If you mean after the New Covenant era then we are still in the New Covenant era.

Galatians 5:3-4 (NKJV)
[sup]3 [/sup]And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. [sup]4 [/sup]You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Still waiting for you to tell us which Covenant you are under. If you don't know just say so.

Eccl.12:13 · Jul 12, 2011

Duckybill said:
I know that you did not answer my question:

"What do you mean by future? After the New Covenant era?"

If you mean after the New Covenant era then we are still in the New Covenant era.

Galatians 5:3-4 (NKJV)
[sup]3 [/sup]And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. [sup]4 [/sup]You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Still waiting for you to tell us which Covenant you are under. If you don't know just say so.

I see you continue to quote the SAME scriptures.

I did not answer your question because I do not find anything about "New Covenant Era" in God's word so I do not know what you are talking about.

What I am talking about is Christ 1000yr rule here on earth. Something the readers can read about.

I am talking about the fact that God's word tells us that ALL nations WILL come to worship Him in Jerusalem. That can be read in God's word.

I am talking about the fact that God's word tells us, through the mouth of Ezekiel, that ALL that do come to worship Him WILL be circumsiced, in both heart AND flesh. That too can be read in God's word.

I am talking about the fact that even AFTER Jesus Christ has died for our sins God will yet bring back the Levitical Preisthood and begin to sacrfice animals once more. This can be read from God's word also.

So NO! I did not answer your question....but can you even attempt to answer what thus said the word of God? Can you explain to the readers this scripture?

Ezek.44
[9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

.

Duckybill · Jul 12, 2011

Eccl.12:13 said:
I see you continue to quote the SAME scriptures.

Of course. They are binding for Christians.

I did not answer your question because I do not find anything about "New Covenant Era" in God's word so I do not know what you are talking about.

I asked you which Covenant you are under. Do you know or not?

What I am talking about is Christ 1000yr rule here on earth. Something the readers can read about.

I am talking about the fact that God's word tells us that ALL nations WILL come to worship Him in Jerusalem. That can be read in God's word.

I am talking about the fact that God's word tells us, through the mouth of Ezekiel, that ALL that do come to worship Him WILL be circumsiced, in both heart AND flesh. That too can be read in God's word.

I am talking about the fact that even AFTER Jesus Christ has died for our sins God will yet bring back the Levitical Preisthood and begin to sacrfice animals once more. This can be read from God's word also.

So NO! I did not answer your question....but can you even attempt to answer what thus said the word of God? Can you explain to the readers this scripture?

Ezek.44
[9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

Until you figure out which Covenant you are under none of this matters. So which Covenant are you under?

veteran · Jul 13, 2011

Duckybill said:
I know that you did not answer my question:

"What do you mean by future? After the New Covenant era?"

If you mean after the New Covenant era then we are still in the New Covenant era.

Galatians 5:3-4 (NKJV)
[sup]3 [/sup]And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. [sup]4 [/sup]You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Still waiting for you to tell us which Covenant you are under. If you don't know just say so.

He's right Ducky, that Ezekiel 44 Scripture is still yet future to us.

But he's wrong about flesh circumcision in that time, for there's nothing written about the "spiritual body" being able to be flesh circumcised. We all will be in our "spiritual body" in that time.

Eccl.12:13 · Jul 13, 2011

veteran said:
He's right Ducky, that Ezekiel 44 Scripture is still yet future to us.

But he's wrong about flesh circumcision in that time, for there's nothing written about the "spiritual body" being able to be flesh circumcised. We all will be in our "spiritual body" in that time.

Are you SURE about that? Have you read ALL of the 44th chapter of Ezekiel? EVERY word is important! This vision is not speaking about the Kingdom of God the father that will later come down to earth, for at that time all WILL be spirit. But this vision that was given to Ezekiel is about Christ 1000yr rule here on earth. There will be 'spirit' AND flesh and blood beings here during that time. And God's word tells us that ALL nations will come to worship Him.

Let's read some of the conditions Jesus tells us will NOT happen to 'spirit' beings, then compare them to the vision that was given to Ezekiel.

Matt.22
[30] For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Luke 20
[34] And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
[35] But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God

So we have TWO conditions that Jesus tells us WILL NOT and CANNOT happen to 'spirit' beings;

1. They WILL NOT marry!
2. They CANNOT sin!

Now let's go back to Ezekiel

Ezek.44
[10] And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
[11] Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

Now before getting into any questions about circumcision, the first question should be, "If we are ALL spirit beings at this time, why is there the need for animal sacrifice, FOR THE PEOPLE?"

Well....the ONLY need for the shedding of blood is for the remission of sins. But God's word in 1 John 3 tells us that it is IMPOSSIBLE for those that are born of God to sin. Now if it is IMPOSSIBLE for 'spirit' beings to sin, BUT there is the shedding of blood, that must mean there are yet flesh and blood beings still here on earth. Jesus shed His blood for mankind one time ONLY. But during His rule here on earth there will still be flesh and blood men capable of sin. And the ONLY way to remove their sin is to shed blood.....animals blood. This is the reason God brings back the Levitical Preisthood. And with the Preisthood comes ALL of the laws concerning the Preist. Let's continue.....

[14] But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
[15] But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:
[16] They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.

Again we find that the Levites will conduct the service of the temple. And inorder for them to conduct the services they must keep ALL of God's laws concerning the Preishood. Now let's read to find if these Preist are 'spirit' or flesh and blood. Let's not forget what Jesus said above about the resurrected;

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."
"And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:"

[17] And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.

So the Levites must be clothed in linen.

[20] Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads.

The Preist cannot shave their heads.

[21] Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.

The Preist cannot drink wine when they come into the inner court.

[22] Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.

And they cannot take WIFES that is a widow!

Now Jesus said ALL those that are resurrected from the dead do NOT give in marriage, and yet we find that during this time, this FUTURE time, even the Preist are able to marry as long as the woman is not a widow. So even the Preist are not 'spirit' beings at this time, but are flesh and blood.

Now getting back to circumcision....Again....God's word tells us......

Zech.14
[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[17] And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

And again let's read one of the requirements for worshiping the Lord during His reign.

Ezek.44
[9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

Now the Lord said, "...all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts,...", and

He also said, "...No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary..."

Now let’s confirm this with something that was also said;

Isa.52
[1] Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Again God’s word tells us, “…there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.”

Now...if ALL are to go to Jerusalem to worship the Lord, BUT no one that is uncircumcised can enter in to worship Him, what does that mean?

ALL that come to worship the Lord MUST be circumcised! ALL nations, meaning there are yet Jews AND Gentiles (FLESH AND BLOOD PEOPLE) still here on earth during Jesus 1000yr rule.

veteran · Jul 13, 2011

Yes. I'm sure...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

Eccl.12:13 · Jul 13, 2011

veteran said:
Yes. I'm sure...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

There will be TWO resurrections; One at the second coming of the Lord, at which time He will set up to rule here on earth for 1000yrs. It will be at THIS resurrection the vision that was given to Ezekiel will happen. After which Satan will be loosed to decieve the nations for the last time. People will die because there will be a final war.

Then there will be another resurrection, at which time the remaining will be judged. At this final judgement ALL will be 'spirit' beings; either in the lake or in the kingdom.

As Jesus told us....TWO condition will not and cannot happen to spirit beings; They WILL NOT give in marrage and THEY CANNOT sin. Yet we find BOTH happening during the time of the vision given to Ezekiel. If ALL are spirit beings at the time of Ezekiel's vision how is it possible that the Preist can take a wife and why are there animal sacrifices?

.

Eccl.12:13 · Jul 15, 2011

veteran said:
He's right Ducky, that Ezekiel 44 Scripture is still yet future to us.

But he's wrong about flesh circumcision in that time, for there's nothing written about the "spiritual body" being able to be flesh circumcised. We all will be in our "spiritual body" in that time.

As Jesus told us....TWO condition will not and cannot happen to spirit beings; They WILL NOT give in marrage and THEY CANNOT sin. Yet we find BOTH happening during the time of the vision given to Ezekiel. If ALL are spirit beings at the time of Ezekiel's vision how is it possible that the Preist can take a wife and why are there animal sacrifices?

.

Eccl.12:13 · Jul 15, 2011

God's word tells us that the Levitical Preisthood will once again be established by God and animal sacrifics started in the temple. Let's now read of another law that was given to Moses by God that will be kept during Jesus rule here on earth....buy ALL nations;

Zech.14
[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[17] And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
[18] And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

So we know for a fact the nations remaining on the earth during Jesus rule WILL be keeping the Feast of Tabernacles. Well if they do not they will be punished, so I'm thinking they will. Let's find another…

Isa.66
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Here we find that God's Sabbath will ALSO be a requirement for ALL flesh that are here on earth during Jesus rule.

Now if the Lord is going to require EVERYBODY to keep the Feast of Tabernacles what about ALL of the rest of His Holy days?

Do you think He will overlook the Passover, Blowing of the Trumpets, Days of Unleavened Bread, Day of Atonement and the rest? He did say they ALL were to be observed forever! And concerning God's sabbath day..... Do you think you will be able to serve God on any day YOU choose or will it be the day HE says? The 7th day!

And what of His laws and commandments? Will those NOT be observed during Christ rule here on earth?

It is clear that God's laws that were given to Moses have NOT passed away! Even the laws of the Levites will once again be observed!

.

aspen · Jul 15, 2011

Why do we need to sacrifice animals when Jesus was the final sacrifice? It doesn't make sense.

Eccl.12:13 · Jul 15, 2011

aspen said:
Why do we need to sacrifice animals when Jesus was the final sacrifice? It doesn't make sense.

We do not have to do it now. But if you read the 44th chapter of Ezekiel you will find that God will, once again, bring back His Levitical preist to offer animal sacrifice. Let's read.....

First let's confirm the time spoken of is a future event.

Ezek.44
[1] Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
[2] Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
[3] It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.

Once Jesus enters into the temple it will be closed and NO other will enter therein through this way. This has not happened and WILL not happen until His temple is built. Now let's find what will happen in the temple of the Lord.

[15] But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:
[16] They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.

So here we have the Levitical Preist, again, doing the services of the Lords temple, Let's continue...

[11] Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

They will burn offerings FOR THE PEOPLE! WHY?

One must understand God's law! For whatever reason, God said the ONLY way sins can be forgiven is by the shedding of blood. Now this time spoken of is during Christ rule here on earth for 1000yrs. There will be flesh and blood beings here that will be taught by spirit beings. Some of them will sin; break God's laws, but they will need a way to have their sins forgiven. Jesus has already shed His blood and He did it ONE time only so He cannot give His blood for the sins of mankind again....BUT BLOOD MUST BE SHED, so God will, once again allow the shedding of animals blood for the forgivness of sins.

.

aspen · Jul 15, 2011

So His sacrifice was in vain?

FHII · Jul 16, 2011

dan p said:
Hi to all, and many believers say that the Law has been set aside but that the 10 commandments are still in force .

#1 , With the setting aside of the Law , it demands something new or change .

#2 , Paul , says all that keep the Law are fallen from Grace , in Gal 5:4 .

#3 , and I will show verse that the sins under the Old Covenant had to be PAID FOR .

#4 , I n Heb 9:15 we see the following ;

a) Christ is a mediator of a New Covenant !
B) We see in Heb 8:7 - 13 that the Old Covenant is to replace the Old Covenant .
c) The New Covenant is yet future , in the Millennium >
d) That when Christ died , He redeemed ALL THE TRANSGRESSION committed under the FIRST TESTAMENT or the OLD Covenant .
e) This means that Christ PAID for all the sins committed under the Old Covenant .
f) This means that the Mosaic Law was all set ASIDE , PURE AND SIMPLE .
g) This means that Baptism is no longer VALID , per Eph 4:5 , only one baptism .
h) Tongues are out .
i) Visions are out , 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
j) Prophecy is out , 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .
k) Gift of Knowledge is out 1 Cor 13:8 - 11 .

It seems to me that Dan p hasn't posted in a while and the conversation has moved on passed his original question. That's fine. I will attempt to answer his first question, if I can find it.

It seems he want's to know if the Law of Moses is passed away. He then makes a statement that some believe the Law is passed but the 10 commandments still apply. It's an interesting question, and one I have been wrestling with others on the side of this web site on general discussion. I do not believe the Law of Moses has passed away. However, I do believe it's been fullfilled and will soon pass away if it hasn't already. I base this on what the scripture says, and not my own opinion.

I have for a short time been a great defender of sinners on this site. So much that people can't see I'm not defending sin at all, but defending grace. I believe that grace covers all sins of the flesh. It does not however, cover sins of the spririt and thus, it doesn't cover at least some of the ten commandments. God still has to come first. After that, you are covered by grace.

But now I'd like to defend the Law of Moses. Why wouldn't you want to follow it? Most of the Law is very reasonable.... Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not steal.... Pretty good things to follow. Now if I kill or steal, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm damned spiritually... But I'll go to jail! I put much emphasis on going to Church and how important that is, so if I do those things and get caught, no Faith for me if faith really does come by hearing a preacher.

Paul's point was not that we shouldn't follow the Law. It was that we can't and the effort we put forth trying to is not good enough. We must have faith in Jesus Christ... But he never said the Law shouldn't be followed. In a round about way, he said it can't be followed, so you better get in good with Jesus.

I haven't put forth ONE verse to support what I say, but I could. I WILL put forth a verse now which does support everything I say:

1 Cor 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but not all things are expedient: all things are lawful unto me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

People ignore this verse and just want to talk about what Paul talked about 2 verses above. But Paul also said that all things are lawful. He also said they weren't a good idea and he wouldn't be brought under their power.

So yes, I don't have to follow ANY of the Mosiac Law other than the points that concern worshipping only HIM. But why wouldn't I, if they are a good plan? The bottom line is despite my defense of Grace, I have no problem with following the Law. It's good, and it should be done.

Duckybill · Jul 16, 2011

FHII said:
1 Cor 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but not all things are expedient: all things are lawful unto me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

People ignore this verse and just want to talk about what Paul talked about 2 verses above. But Paul also said that all things are lawful. He also said they weren't a good idea and he wouldn't be brought under their power.

Correct me if I misunderstood. It sounds like you are saying that 1 Cor 6:12 is a license for Christians to sin.

FHII · Jul 16, 2011

Duckybill said:
Correct me if I misunderstood. It sounds like you are saying that 1 Cor 6:12 is a license for Christians to sin.

Well, darned me if I didn't just complement you on another post and here you are going off on me!

No, it ain't a license to sin. But what do you think Paul meant when he said it? I can only gather that he meant, yes it's covered by grace, but why do you want to or why should you? Look at the whole chapter! Heck, look at the whole verse. He is saying, "yea, all things are lawful, and you can do them and they are covered by grace. But some things are just stupid and you are going to suffer from them." He used the term "All things are lawful" a few times. He's acknowledging grace but saying even though you have it, you are an idiot for doing some things. Your life is going to be in chaos if you do them and eventually it will effect your spiritual well being.

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