is doing sexual things with a boyfriend/girlfriend sin...

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Triumph1300

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I'm sorry, but I don't interpret Deuteronomy 22:28-29 any other way.

How about this one, Michael1985:


Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NASB

If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.
 
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Jay Ross

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I'm sorry, but I don't interpret Deuteronomy 22:28-29 any other way.

It seems that you have missed this in the two verses quoted: -

Deuteronomy 22:28-29: - 28 "If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.

What you said was this: -

No. If one does go so far as actually having sex, the couple must marry ASAP, and failure to do so at that point would be fornication.

which makes no differentiation concerning whether or not the woman was a virgin which the two referenced verses specified. Now does not the same also apply to a young man who is a virgin and is grabbed by a woman who then has her way with him?

We all need to be careful when we give a blanket solution as you did based on a poor understanding of the scriptures that you have referenced.

Shalom
 
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thelord's_pearl

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Oh I see so if you're a virgin then you get to 'have sex' prior to marriage but you have to marry right away? I thought fornication is fornication meaning sex outside of marriage is a sin written in the bible. Thanks for the clarification
 

Grailhunter

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Oh I see so if you're a virgin then you get to 'have sex' prior to marriage but you have to marry right away? I thought fornication is fornication meaning sex outside of marriage is a sin written in the bible. Thanks for the clarification
They are messing with you.
 

Michael1985

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Oh I see so if you're a virgin then you get to 'have sex' prior to marriage but you have to marry right away? I thought fornication is fornication meaning sex outside of marriage is a sin written in the bible. Thanks for the clarification

Everyone is going to interpret Scripture differently, but I find the idea of fornication=premarital sex as one that can be found in a modern dictionary, not one that has Biblical grounds. I personally would need something akin to "Thou shalt not have sex outside of wedlock" to buy in, and with all the sexual prohibitions given in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy, the fact that there's nothing like that tells me that it's not technically a sin. Waiting until marriage for sex seems to be a societal assumption more than a direct command. I think most of us here can agree that there are still plenty of reasons it's still a good idea though.
 
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Truman

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Sex should be kept to a monogamous relationship. Some animals mate for life. I believe God's original intent was for us to do the same. And since He doesn't change...
I've been married twice. I'm not throwing stones at anyone. When I was growing up in the 60's and 70s, divorce was a rare thing. Society was a lot more stable. Abortion was almost unheard of.
Minority groups were no where nearly as easily manipulated by political and global powers as they are today. The destruction of the traditional family unit has been a hallmark of the enemy's success in our society.
There have been progress made in areas of social justice. We just need to make sure that we treat all with a steady, impartial hand. And don't give away our ability and responsibility to think for ourselves. We need revival.
 

Michael1985

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Oh I see so if you're a virgin then you get to 'have sex' prior to marriage but you have to marry right away? I thought fornication is fornication meaning sex outside of marriage is a sin written in the bible. Thanks for the clarification

Also remember that this is just my take. If your conscience doesn't allow for it, then don't do it.
 

Michael1985

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It seems that you have missed this in the two verses quoted: -

Deuteronomy 22:28-29: - 28 "If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.

What you said was this: -



which makes no differentiation concerning whether or not the woman was a virgin which the two referenced verses specified. Now does not the same also apply to a young man who is a virgin and is grabbed by a woman who then has her way with him?

We all need to be careful when we give a blanket solution as you did based on a poor understanding of the scriptures that you have referenced.

Shalom

In other words, I have a poor understanding of Scripture just because I have an interpretation that disagrees with yours. :rolleyes:
 

Jay Ross

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In other words, I have a poor understanding of Scripture just because I have an interpretation that disagrees with yours. :rolleyes:

All that I have done is pointed out the inconsistencies of your understanding of the scriptures that you applied in your pronouncement that if two people have sex they should marry immediately. There is much more that should be considered when considering the advice that one should give to a couple that are indulging in have sex outside of marriage. Not everything is as black and white as you are suggesting.

One piece of advice is that people should be considered before one marries, irrespective of the circumstances is, "Should they enter into a marriage arrangement where the couple will be unequally yoke to another?"

Shalom
 

Ronald Nolette

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or fornication?

Well as the bible says nothing about peting, that is a hard question to answer. Sexual intercourse outside of marriage is sin.

My opinion (and this is just opinion) is that "fooling around" is to be avoided at all costs. Why?

roverbs 6:26-29
King James Version

26 For by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread: and the adultress will hunt for the precious life.

27 Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?

28 Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned?

29 So he that goeth in to his neighbour's wife; whosoever toucheth her shall not be innocent.

Knowing that God designed men and women to be married, fooling around with a woman who is not your wife is fooling around with someone elses future wife. (time is irrelavent in the eyes of God remember)
 

Michael1985

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Knowing that God designed men and women to be married, fooling around with a woman who is not your wife is fooling around with someone elses future wife. (time is irrelavent in the eyes of God remember)

I see this argument all the time and absolutely hate it. It's also certainly possible that the woman may be your future wife or may never marry anyone at all.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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I see this argument all the time and absolutely hate it. It's also certainly possible that the woman may be your future wife or may never marry anyone at all.


but you don't know that at the time. Having sexual intercourse is the biblical definition of marriage! Paul says that lying with a prostitute makes a person one with her and that is what God says man and wife do in Genesis.
 

tsr

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Foolishness that is current and on-going needs to be discussed between a boyfriend and girlfriend in some detail, because it has huge implications for the immediate relationship. Wisdom is needed as to how much detail to discuss, so it is good to seek counsel from an older, wiser married person before you to talk to your boyfriend or girlfriend.

The boyfriend or girlfriend needs to hear enough to know: (1) how to be an ally with you against your on-going sin and (2) if he or she wants to marry into this problem. Every husband and wife has problems (because everyone is a sinner!), but one of the choices you make in picking a spouse is which set of problems you choose to get married to.
 
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Osiris

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I totally agree. I was just giving you a heads up. Romantic love is not really addressed in the New Testament, so Christians are left with little to guide them. So they have a tendency to be rather clumsy on the topic...to say it nicely.

If I am in a Sunday school class or a Christian study group in someone's home and the topic of sex or romantic love comes up, I usually get up and get a cup of coffee and stand back and wait for the fur to fly. Usually the person that brought up the topic will be ridiculed and get a lecture that sex is just not that important.

So the safest the answer is, don't have sex or anything that would tempt it until after you are married. And if you are not compatible in that way....that is just too bad....cause sex is not that important.

To prevent tar and feathering or burning at the stake....I usually stay out of the conversation.

Sex is marriage according to Genesis 24:67 “And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her:”
You guys would have to read the book of Moses, the law, or Torah to gain understanding on what sex even constitutes. As well, you would have to follow the law.
Genesis 1:28 “be fruitful and multiply”
Gen 2:24 “ cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh”
 

Grailhunter

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Sex is marriage according to Genesis 24:67 “And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her:”
You guys would have to read the book of Moses, the law, or Torah to gain understanding on what sex even constitutes. As well, you would have to follow the law.
Genesis 1:28 “be fruitful and multiply”
Gen 2:24 “ cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh”
LOL
 

GracePeace

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How about this one, Michael1985:


Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NASB

If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.
Yeah, Christ countermanded Torah Matthew 5:31, Matthew 5:33-37, Matthew 5:38-39, Matthew 5:43-44, reasoning that Moses/Torah had issued concessions for evil men Matthew 19:8.

With Jesus's observation even His enemies, the Rabbis, agree--Rashi's commentary on Deuteronomy 21:10-14 says that these Laws (marrying a woman taken as spoils of war) was only given "against the evil inclination"--men would've done it if they had not been permitted, so the permission prevents them from being lawbreakers.

I may have found another Law that was only given because men were hard-hearted :

Exodus 21:20-21
When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

Really? "Yeah, it's fine to kill your slaves."? No, it's not. We who have been baptized into Christ are children of God and called to a higher standard (eg, the passages already cited--Mt 5, Mt 19).
 
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