new version of OSAS?

Riverwalker said:

No one ever stops believing

People who fall away never really believed. Oh they gave a mental assent to God...but they never made the deep heart change that belief requires. Never entered into a personal loving relationship with the Lord. Once you know the Lord, you cannot "unbelieve" you can reject Him, but you cannot say he does not exist

The bible is replete with examples telling us that if we believe in God then we will live like we believe
Works do not save, but they follow salvation. And if you are not doing these good things, then your faith is dead (aka non existent)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Click to expand...

This a common statement to muddy the water.
I can say you were not ever really saved...and you cannot prove me wrong....because you do not have a gage...a meter...a belief meter. The early knew much less than we do....a simple people that believed...no meter.

marks said:

Just the same, we can know that God will NEVER forsake us!

Much love!

Click to expand...

Ezekiel 11:21
But as for those whose heart goes after their detestable things and their abominations, I will bring their deeds upon their own heads, declares the Lord God.”

Blood Bought 1953 said:

It is God that says so......If Jesus died for all of my sins , what sins could I be damned for? Maybe you don’t believe that Jesus died for your Sins....that would be showing Unbelief in the first half of Paul’s Gospel That Saves ( 1Cor15:1-4 ) ...I would recommend that you start Believing it....

Click to expand...

The belief that you can continue to sin all you want and you are going to be reward for being an evildoer...is a doctrine of Satan.
What other type of belief would Satan start? Of course he would preach that you should not worry about sinning! Keep sinning! You will be rewarded greatly in heaven....We will just kick the good people out and tell God He is just going to have to go some where else. What do you think, Satan is going to move into heaven?

Grailhunter said:

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Click to expand...

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJV
9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 KJV
18) Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Throughout the New Testament God speaks to us this way.

You were a fornicator, but you've been wash, sanctified, justified, so, flee fornication!

Because we have been justified from these things, no longer these people, don't keep doing those things!

Stop lying one to another seeing how you have put off the old man and put on the new. Like that.

Salvation is not the instant conversion to sinlessness. But it is the instance rebirth as a child of God who then goes on to grow up.

Much love!

Blood Bought 1953 said:

“ abiding “ is not a complicated thing—— “ ....and who is it that abides....it is he that believes Jesus is the Son Of God”.....

Do you Believe that Jesus is the Son Of God ? You are doing all the abiding you need worry about...relax a little.....lol....

Click to expand...

NO NO NO....Abiding is much more than believing.

John 15:4-9
Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned

If you abide in Christ, you produce good fruit...good things. Those produce good fruit will be burned!4

2nd John 1:9
Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

Luke 6:46
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

1st John 2:6
the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

You who promote sin and perdition ...do you think Christ walked in sin?

1st John 2:28
Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.

1st John 2:24
The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1st John 3:6
No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

John 15:2
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

I say if you are a Christian and you want to go to heaven...be good...separate yourself from evil and be as good as possible and live your live doing good deeds.

You preach that you can sin all you want and go to heaven and you really do not have anything good say about being good or good deeds

So I ask which belief is of God and which belief is of Satan?

BarnyFife said:

You and me both, John. I'm all in. We're not really discussing anything here. We're arguing. Eternal security vs. conditional security. There's no reconcilable way to paint it. Either you believe salvation is a once-and-done deal or you don't. I can't see any middle ground. This forum is constantly inundated with the debate. Nothing ever gets settled. I don't see how I always get sucked into it. It's almost like a sickness: The irresistible urge to debate eternal security. AAaarrgh!

Click to expand...

Christ went through the most horrible torture and was nailed to a cross...for us...to offer salvation and heaven...is it too much to ask they we try to be as good as we can? Yes it is possible to be good. The doctrine of sin and sin some more and be rewarded for it is from Satan.

Tong2020 said:

We know and so believe that we are saved by grace through faith in God and Him whom He sent in the last day, Jesus Christ. And about us whom He saved, I’d like to share this truth to you.

Click to expand...

You error and play Christ for a fool! You live a life of sin and you will burn for it!

Blood Bought 1953 said:

What do we want from “ our” children .....Perfection or Trust? It’s no different with God .......He will Save anybody and everybody who TRUSTS Him for their Salvation....Those TRYING for their Salvation with their pitiful attempts at Trying to be “ Good Enough?”—- they are Lost....

Click to expand...

1st John 3:8
1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Tong2020 said:

<<<By our works we are known both by God and man. What we do and how we live our life, is a reflection of the inner man. >>>

We are known by man by our works, for our works somehow reveals the heart of man. But God knows us even without our works, for God sees the heart of man.

Tong
R3386

Click to expand...

You are what you do and you will be judged for all the evil you do.

marks said:

Mock the Scriptures if you will! Though you mean to be mocking me, I'm sure! What does Scripture tell us regarding mockers?

You deflect from the issue by your mocking. But that does not replace a valid answer.

Certainly all Scripture is useful! That's not what is in question. Is NT faith in the New Covenant to be defined according to men's faith before that covenant? Looking first within the New Testament to understand the terms and concepts in the New Testament will give the clear answer.

Much love!

Click to expand...

So what is your favorite part of the Mosaic Law....I am going to bet that you do not know them.

Is is it the part about...kill all the breaths and don't forget the babies...is that your Christian nature? The part you like most?
Is is it the part about...a father selling his daughters as a sex slave?
Is is it the part about...about having multiple wives and concubines?
Is is it the part about...killing all the non-virgins?
Is is the part about...killing a woman that was raped because she did not scream?
Is is it the part about...where God told Eve that her husband would rule over her?

The Mosaic Law is not inline with Christ's teachings.
The Mosaic Law is not part of Christian morals.
We are not Jews!
You look to the law for justification you are severed from Christ and have fallen from Grace.
If you keep one law, you have to keep all 613 Mosaic Laws and you are no longer in the New Covenant.
bye-bye

JunChosen said:

Tong2020 said: ↑
Again, eternal life is not a reward, rather it is the gift of God.

Click to expand...

If you insist.

Click to expand...

It’s the truth.

Tong
3397

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Not NEARLY as “amusing” as “Lucky Repentance” nor the Twisting Of Simple Scriptures That Add to the Gospel Of Pure Grace by Adding to what Christ accomplished on the Cross and have you and your Acolytes “ Fallen From Grace” without even knowing it........... wait a minute! It really ain’t that “ amusing” , is it ? Poor Newbies have their Joy and Assurance stripped from their Walks Of Faith Before they even get out of the Gate....it’s actually kinda Shameful....

Click to expand...

No what is shameful and blasphemes and heretical is preaching that you can continue to sin and sin some more and go to heaven.
Lifestyle sins will send you to hell.
A life of sin will send you to hell.
If you want to go to heaven be good.

Grailhunter said:

Tong2020 said: ↑
This is why I brought up the questions for consideration: Do you think you can throw away Him you claim, profess, and confess to believe? Do you think you will ever desire or want to do that? Do you see any one reason that could change what today you claim, profess, and confess concerning God and Jesus?

Click to expand...

Hebrews 6:4-8
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Click to expand...

Verse 6 makes my point.

Tong
R3398

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Four Ways to “Fall From Grace” If you Add these otherwise great things to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing Found in 1cor15:1-4...and claim that these things must be done to GET Saved or must be done to STAY Saved.....

Click to expand...

Saved is not the question....how much can you sin before you are judged to go to hell.
Being saved does not cancel Judgment Day...and there you will be judged on all you do. Christ's judgment for sure...will He fill heaven with evildoers? What would hell be for....good people?

kcnalp said:

Which clearly destroys OSAS!

Click to expand...

also fallen from grace
Gal 5:4

is not strange that they say you can’t lose it but we must always need to repent?

if you have free will to repent then you have free will to sin


yes and no

yes in this life
But once we die and are saved then it’s OSAS

Blood Bought 1953 said:

I find that as time goes on and I try to obeys Paul's Command to finish my Christian Walk the “SAME WAY” that I started it— FAITH —( “ From Faith to Faith” is how Paul put it ) the Rules and Commands seem to have a way of taking care of themselves.....Faith will bring about Obedience....Obedience won’t necessarily bring about the courage and the trust to Act on God's Promises.....

Disobedience to commands will bring trouble, no doubt about it...Showing “ unbelief” and cowardice to act on the Promises Of God? That’s the way to really Anger God..

The realization that the Bible is a Book Of Promises in addition to a Book Of Rules was a very important step for me in my Christian Walk....Try concentrating on obeying God’s Promises ... showing Him you have Faith....see if anything changes .....it worked for me.....I give scant conscience effort to “ do do this and don’t do that “......I try to obey God’s beautiful Promises and just kinda “ find myself” keeping the Rules....methinks Paul was on to something when he said, “ The righteous shall LIVE BY FAITH !” ......NOT SAYING , “ The Righteous by Rule-Keeping shall live”......

Click to expand...

showing Him you have Faith
Here is one of your twists of truth and the scriptures is that you consider having faith as believing you can sin all you want and go to heaven. You insult the Grace of Christ and play Him for a fool.

Grailhunter said:

Hebrews 6:4-8
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Click to expand...

You do know that this isn't the whole passage, right?
People quote this frequently but pretty much always leave out verse 9 and the rest concerning our assurance of salvation.
9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner
Verse 6 is a hypothetical statement, not a comment on the loss of salvation.

Amazed@grace said:

And salvation is free and irrevocable gift from God.
No one will take us from his hand. And he will never cast us out.
God's will is not overcome by us.

Click to expand...

Back to sin and sin some more and fill heaven with evildoers. Not going to happen!

Grailhunter said:

You are what you do and you will be judged for all the evil you do.

Click to expand...

That rules you out and makes you a hypocrite, Grace and truth Came by Jesus

Grailhunter said:

So what is your favorite part of the Mosaic Law....I am going to bet that you do not know them.

Click to expand...

My favorite part of the Mosaic Law is the list of redemptions in Leviticus 27. Had Jephtha known about that, he might have realized he didn't have to sacrifice his daughter!

But I have to say I don't understand the meaning of your post. I'm sorry!

Much love!