The 'blessed virgin Mary'

robert derrick · May 23, 2021

"There were MANY individual "Canons" floating around for the first 300 years of the Church's existence which contained MANY Books that did NOT make the final cut."

Some were either so far-fetched and ignorant that even mystical Catholics couldn't swallow them. Or rather they weren't sufficiently loyal to the Catholic hierarchy. But of course, the canons of men and not of God that did make the cut, have been sufficient to produce the current day most-Catholic followers of another religion made by man.

(I mean. do they not even see their own silliness?? Hey, not all the canons of men made the cut, just the ones that we kept!! Seriously?)

"It was only due to the God-given Authority of the Catholic Church that the Canon was officially declared and confirmed multiple times."

heheh. hahaha. HOHOHOHO! It's bringing tears of laughter to my eyes. These people are truly blind within blindness. What they say is light is utter foolishness.

So the God-given authority to the 'Catholic' church was to officially declare Canon, other than Scripture, and confirmed multiple times mind you, that such multiply confirmed Canon of man was to be equal initially and higher than later of God-given Scripture...

And so of course the question is: why bother with Scripture in the first place. Just hand His authority over to the latter-day Catholics, that came trotting along a couple hundred years after the Apostles, and let them do the Canon thing and be done with it.

These people are just...what? Maybe I can come up with a sufficiently demeaning term for them. Foolish children, childish posers...some such.

Maybe bad babies of the mystified 'Mother Mary'?

robert derrick · May 23, 2021

I think I have gleaned all that is needed from their perpetual milking of Mother Mary to the extreme.

She may be dry by now. But we'll see.

robert derrick · May 23, 2021

Nope, not done yet.
"her Immaculate Conception"

Who said it was Mary's 'immaculate conception'?

Wasn't it God's by the Holy Ghost? I guess not. What is Scripture of God compared to Canon of Catholics? Silly me.

Further insight into the 'Mother Mary' mindset...

God is HER Son, got that! HER Son, not God's, not the Father's, HER's. He just supplied the Spirit and the seed, but SHE supplied the IMMACULATENESS, "may she be eternally blessed above all others" to accomplish the task of producing HER Son...I mean it was the MOST IMMACULATENESS of any deified and rarefied woman ever and forever!

How do we know? Well, that was one of the first best Catholic canon's ever to make the cut. I mean the booming effect of that canon still explodes before our very eyes today...

"I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit." (Rev 9)

BreadOfLife · May 23, 2021

kcnalp said:
Only sinners need a Savior.

Right -

You and I were saved AFTER falling into the mud of sin.
Mary was saved FROM falling into the mud of sin.

ALL was accomplished by Christ.

BreadOfLife · May 23, 2021

robert derrick said:
"There were MANY individual "Canons" floating around for the first 300 years of the Church's existence which contained MANY Books that did NOT make the final cut."

Some were either so far-fetched and ignorant that even mystical Catholics couldn't swallow them. Or rather they weren't sufficiently loyal to the Catholic hierarchy. But of course, the canons of men and not of God that did make the cut, have been sufficient to produce the current day most-Catholic followers of another religion made by man.

(I mean. do they not even see their own silliness?? Hey, not all the canons of men made the cut, just the ones that we kept!! Seriously?)

"It was only due to the God-given Authority of the Catholic Church that the Canon was officially declared and confirmed multiple times."

heheh. hahaha. HOHOHOHO! It's bringing tears of laughter to my eyes. These people are truly blind within blindness. What they say is light is utter foolishness.

So the God-given authority to the 'Catholic' church was to officially declare Canon, other than Scripture, and confirmed multiple times mind you, that such multiply confirmed Canon of man was to be equal initially and higher than later of God-given Scripture...

And so of course the question is: why bother with Scripture in the first place. Just hand His authority over to the latter-day Catholics, that came trotting along a couple hundred years after the Apostles, and let them do the Canon thing and be done with it.

These people are just...what? Maybe I can come up with a sufficiently demeaning term for them. Foolish children, childish posers...some such.

Maybe bad babies of the mystified 'Mother Mary'?

Your moronic statement above in RED tells us TWO things:
a. You think that Jesus was a liar.
b. You actually believe that men and ONLY men guided Christ's Church for 2000 years.

WRONG on both counts.

First of all - Jesus told His disciples that the Holy Spirit ewould guide His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15). That the Holy Spirit would take from what was Christ's (EVERYTHING that the Father has) and give it to His Church.
Not some truth - but ALL TRUTH.

Secondly - it is the Holy Spirit who guides the Church - NOT men. It is the Holy Spirit who decided on the Canon of Scripture - OT AND NT - yet it is REBELLIOUS MEN in the 16th century who decided that the Holy Spirit was wrong.
The result was the editing of the OT to the tune of DELETEING 7 Books and portions of Daniel and Esther.

Tell me something - by WHOSE authority - other than Martin Luther's did this happen?

BreadOfLife · May 23, 2021

robert derrick said:
Nope, not done yet.
"her Immaculate Conception"

Who said it was Mary's 'immaculate conception'?

Wasn't it God's by the Holy Ghost? I guess not. What is Scripture of God compared to Canon of Catholics? Silly me.

Further insight into the 'Mother Mary' mindset...

God is HER Son, got that! HER Son, not God's, not the Father's, HER's. He just supplied the Spirit and the seed, but SHE supplied the IMMACULATENESS, "may she be eternally blessed above all others" to accomplish the task of producing HER Son...I mean it was the MOST IMMACULATENESS of any deified and rarefied woman ever and forever!

How do we know? Well, that was one of the first best Catholic canon's ever to make the cut. I mean the booming effect of that canon still explodes before our very eyes today...

"I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit." (Rev 9)

This is precisely the kind of ignorance that I would expect from e typical "cookie-cutter" anti-Catholic like so many on this forum.

The Immaculate Conception doesn't refer to the conception in Mary's womb of Jesus - it refers to HER conception in the womb of her mother.
As I have advised many other ignorant anti-Catholics here - if you're going to attempt to bash Catholic teaching - at LEAST get your facts straight

kcnalp · May 24, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
Right -

You and I were saved AFTER falling into the mud of sin.
Mary was saved FROM falling into the mud of sin.

ALL was accomplished by Christ.

ONLY Jesus THE SAVIOR is sinless. Mary was a sinner. Mary is not the Savior.

Romans 3:23 (NKJV)
23 All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

tsr · May 24, 2021

I found this statement of Mary to be a blessing to my heart. I was raised Catholic but now attending a bible teaching church. Its up to each person and their choice to accept it or not.
====================================================================
Maryhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_mother_of_Jesus#cite_note-3 was a 1st century Galilean Jewish woman of Nazareth,[2][3] the wife of Joseph and the virgin mother of Jesus, according to the canonical gospels but not the wife of Joseph according to the Quran.

Both the gospels of Matthew and Luke in the New Testament and the Quran describe Mary as a virgin.[c] She is betrothed to Joseph, according to Matthew and Luke.[5] According to Christian theology, Mary conceived Jesus through the Holy Spirit while still a virgin, and accompanied Joseph to Bethlehem, where Jesus was born.[6]

According to Catholic and Eastern Christian teachings, at the end of her earthly life, God raised Mary's body directly into heaven; this is known in the Christian West as the Assumption of Mary.[7][8]

Mary has been venerated since early Christianity,[9][10] and is considered by millions to be the most meritorious saint of the religion. She is said to have miraculously appeared to believers many times over the centuries. The Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican, and Lutheran churches believe that Mary, as mother of Jesus, is the Theotokos (Mother of God; Θεοτόκος). There is significant diversity in the Marian beliefs and devotional practices of major Christian traditions. The Catholic Church holds distinctive Marian dogmas, namely her status as the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her perpetual virginity, and her Assumption into heaven.[11] Many Protestants minimize Mary's role within Christianity, basing their argument on the lack of biblical support for any beliefs other than the virgin birth (actually a virginal conception).[12] Mary also has the highest position in Islam among all women.[13][14][15] She is mentioned in the Quran more often than in the New Testament,[16] where two of the longer chapters of the Quran are devoted to her and her family.[17]

BreadOfLife · May 24, 2021

kcnalp said:
ONLY Jesus is sinless. Mary was a sinner.
Romans 3:23 (NKJV)
23 ALL HAVE SINNED and fall short of the glory of God,

Sooooo, if you take this to its logical conclusion - then Jesus sinned, right?
After all - He IS part of "ALL". Of course, tat's nonsense - just as your understanding of this verse is nonsense.

Rom. 3:23 is using inclusive language. It would be like the newspaper saying:
"EVERYBODY in town came out to greet the returning astronauts."

We see this same language used in Scripture many times. In Matt. 2 - we read:
Matt. 2:3
When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and ALL of Jerusalem with him;

So, ALL of Jerusalem was upset about the Baby Jesus?? EVERY man, woman and child??
EVERY baby and mentally handicapped person was "troubled" - or is this simply more inclusive language that YOU don't understand?

Rom. 3 is quoting Psalm 14, which says that the FOOL says there is no God - then it goes on to condemn the actions of the FOOLISH.

Don't we also read in Rom. 10 that there is "NONE" righteous? Psalm 14 goes on to say that God is in the company of the "Righteous"??
Why does James tell his readers that the prayer of a "Righteous" person is very powerful and effective (James 5:16)??

Does Rom 3:23 include babies?
Does it include mentally-handicapped, who don't have full use of their faculties?
Does it include the unborn?
Does it include JESUS?

If not - then it does NOT actually mean "ALL".

kcnalp · May 24, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
Sooooo, if you take this to its logical conclusion - then Jesus sinned, right?
After all - He IS part of "ALL". Of course, tat's nonsense - just as your understanding of this verse is nonsense.

I wrongly assumed that you have read and believe the Bible.

1 Peter 2:21-22 (NKJV)
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: 22 "Who committed no sin,

BreadOfLife · May 24, 2021

kcnalp said:
I wrongly assumed that you have read and believe the Bible.

1 Peter 2:21-22 (NKJV)
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: 22 "Who committed no sin,

READING the Bible and UNDERSTANDING what it says are 2 separate issues.
It seems that you have read it - but you STILL don't get it.

Now -please address the points I made in last post #289.
If you can't - then you need to accept the possibility that you are wrong . . .

kcnalp · May 24, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
READING the Bible and UNDERSTANDING what it says are 2 separate issues.
It seems that you have read it - but you STILL don't get it.

Now -please address the points I made in last post #289.
If you can't - then you need to accept the possibility that you are wrong . . .

You CANNOT prove that Mary was sinless. It's that simple. Jesus is the ONLY Savior, not Mary.

Hebrews 4:14-15 (NKJV)
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

robert derrick · May 24, 2021

"Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth"... of Scripture.

All the truth of God is found in Scripture. It does not include traditions of men, that are proven to be of men only, when not found in Scripture. (Such as mystery Mother 'Mary' the Great. Which we know is false, because it is not in Scripture, which is why traditions of men outside of Scripture are needed to try and teach it. With a whole bunch of Greekish lingo thrown in to convince others Scripture isn't really saying what it plainly is: "Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.")

"...it is the Holy Spirit who guides the Church - NOT men."

The Holy Spirit guides believers to all the truth of Scripture. Men and women who hold to traditions not found in Scripture are guided by themselves and one another, not the Holy Spirit who guides...

"...yet it is REBELLIOUS MEN in the 16th century who decided that the Holy Spirit was wrong."

Men who 'rebelled' against the out-of-control and crazy dominion of the Catholic religion, not against the pure religion of Jesus Christ (James 1), which is given by Scripture. "One man's rebellion is another man's revolution" (Anonymous)

"... by WHOSE authority - other than Martin Luther's did this happen?"

Since it didn't happen by Catholic popal authority, then it had to be on good authority.

You are so blindly deep in the Catholicism of men's traditions (As the unbelieving Jews were in their Jews' religion) and not the Christianity of Scripture, that you can't even see past your own nose far enough to fathom that 'sola scriptura' is correct. It is Scripture to be 'sola scriptura' (Even as it was to be sola Paulua in Antioch):

"Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you...thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart...and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house...and thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes." (Deut 6)

It is Scripture only, the words of God only, that are to be taught as of God. All other traditions not found in Scripture are words of men only. (Which certainly includes those of Jews in the Jews religion and those of Catholics in the Catholics' religion)

Only in Scripture do we have any sure word of prophesy(2 Peter 1). All else is false: from men, not God.

"The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind." (Jerem 5 & 19)

Say I not well that thou art an unbelieving Catholic in the Catholics' religion, even as an unbelieving Jew in the Jews' religion?

robert derrick · May 24, 2021

"The Immaculate Conception doesn't refer to the conception in Mary's womb of Jesus - it refers to HER conception in the womb of her mother."

Whoa! It's even worse than I thought! Wow! I don't think even Mystery Babylon the Great tried to come up with that one!
Mystery 'Mary' the Great was Immaculately conceived! Oh man, do I have lots to learn about the Mystery Religion of Catholics!

So She was the Blessed Virgin May at birth! Even as Jesus was Son of the Blessed at birth! So the Son of the 'Blessed' (Mark 14) wasn't God the Father the unbelieving Jews were referring to afterall: It was MARY! Son of the Blessed Virgin Mother Mary! All Jesus had to do was clarify that fact to the Jews, and they would have let Him go, and gone after His Immaculately Conceived Mother instead! And then She could have died on the cross and become the One true Mediator before us all, without any need of Catholics trying to convince us of Her Immaculately Conceived Mediatorial skills!

So, He is not the Son of God the Father, but Son of Goddess the Mother!

Whew! So, it is indeed Mother Mary worship all the way through, not even the Father rates with her!

And why not? Scripture doesn't mean anything when compared to Catholic Canon of the Catholic religion. So, why are you people even bothering with Jesus? I mean, he was just the son of the Blessed, not in fact the Blessed Herself! What, you like to use his name for benefit of the draw to the true religion of the 'Blessed': Mary, Mother of God of all the earth: Demeter and Hera combined!

So, how about the immaculately conceived Mother Mary's Mother? (aka Demeter and Hera) Wouldn't she have needed be A Blessed Virgin Mother too? Is the Blessed Virgin Mother Eve the true God, or Goddess, in all this afterall? Eve was the First to made Immaculately and Virginally and then decided she would do so for Her own Daughter, the First Daughter born Immaculately of the First Blessed Virgin and Mother Eve. And the Immaculately Born Virgin Mary was the Last, after having failed to carry on the Immaculacy of Woman by giving birth to a stinking man!

So, the Son is the not the First and the Last, but it is the Immaculate Mother! She is not only Mother of God, but Mother of all Immaculately Virgin Born Goddesses!

I'm getting the hang of this tradition-without-Scripture stuff. It could get fun. Maybe I will sign up as a Catholic also, and not just to receive the traditions, but to add to them and make them even better! Afterall, there is no time limit on such stuff, and I can just submit them to the Holy See of the Immaculate Mother...

Such as this: when Adam knew Eve, it was when he tried to hit on her, and she firmly informed him of Her Immaculate Motherness. And so Divine Mother God had to form other children from the dust of the ground, while He/She overshadowed Eve to begin the Immaculately Born Race of Mothers.

It can be the BROM section of the Vatican Library.

BreadOfLife · May 24, 2021

kcnalp said:
You CANNOT prove that Mary was sinless. It's that simple. Jesus is the ONLY Savior, not Mary.

Hebrews 4:14-15 (NKJV)
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Actually - I CAN.

"Kecharitomene" is the Greek word that Luke used in his Gospel (v.1:28), which is the perfect passive participle, indicates a completed action with a permanent result. It translates, “having been completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.” Kecharitomene is not a mere description here. It is used as a TITLE – a name, similar to "Abram/Abraham" and "Jacob/Israel".

The Angel didn’t say, “Hail, Mary, full of grace.”
He said, "Hail, Kecharitomene.”

Only those who are already in Heaven are "Kecharitomene" because they have been COMPLETED in grace.
YOU and I are still being worked on - DAILY.

michaelvpardo · May 24, 2021

robert derrick said:
I have no objection to referring to Mary as the blessed virgin Mary, because every saint in Christ Jesus presented to the Lord, shall be a blessed and chaste virgin (2 Cor 11:2).

All that abide in Christ therefore can be fairly addressed as the blessed virgin 'so and so'.

The only One in heaven that is and ever shall be noticeably and visibly distinct from all others is Jesus, who stands as a slain Lamb in the midst of the throne(Rev 5), i.e. the prints and marks of His crucifixion shall remain in His resurrected body for all to see, as a perpetual reminder of His cross.

Other than Himself, the 12 Apostles of the Lamb, aside from Judas and including Paul, shall be specially remembered in the foundation stones of heavenly New Jerusalem, having their names written in them. Likewise the names of the 12 tribes of Israel shall be remembered by being written on the gates of the that City.

Other than these examples, I see no other blessed saint with Jesus in heaven that is recognized by God as 'special' to Himself and His ministry. None shall be better or worse, higher or lower, honored more or less, nor specially named than any other...

Does anyone know why believers in Jesus are so intent on falsely making Mary a 'perpetual' virgin on earth after she gave birth to Jesus? I know it is a false teaching and woefully vain worshipping, but my question is why?

Why? Perhaps this isn't what you're looking for, but church history informs us that among other things, one reason for the ancient split between the churches of Rome and Constantinople was a disagreement over allowing the "laity" to keep household images of "patron saints" in place of their household gods. The patron saints are supposed to answer prayers within their responsibilities in a manner similar to the household gods, who were supposed to answer prayer according to their realms and powers. If you're wondering which of the pagan gods Mary replaced, that would've been the goddess of fertility, a prime mover in the various pagan religions.

kcnalp · May 24, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
Actually - I CAN.

"Kecharitomene" is the Greek word that Luke used in his Gospel (v.1:28), which is the perfect passive participle, indicates a completed action with a permanent result. It translates, “having been completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.” Kecharitomene is not a mere description here. It is used as a TITLE – a name, similar to "Abram/Abraham" and "Jacob/Israel".

The Angel didn’t say, “Hail, Mary, full of grace.”
He said, "Hail, Kecharitomene.”

Only those who are already in Heaven are "Kecharitomene" because they have been COMPLETED in grace.
YOU and I are still being worked on - DAILY.

You're a Greek expert? You can rewrite our Christian Bible? Was "Pope" Peter sinless too? Is Mary your God? Is Mary your savior?

BreadOfLife · May 24, 2021

robert derrick said:
"Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth"... of Scripture.

All the truth of God is found in Scripture. It does not include traditions of men, that are proven to be of men only, when not found in Scripture. (Such as mystery Mother 'Mary' the Great. Which we know is false, because it is not in Scripture, which is why traditions of men outside of Scripture are needed to try and teach it. With a whole bunch of Greekish lingo thrown in to convince others Scripture isn't really saying what it plainly is: "Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.")

"...it is the Holy Spirit who guides the Church - NOT men."

The Holy Spirit guides believers to all the truth of Scripture. Men and women who hold to traditions not found in Scripture are guided by themselves and one another, not the Holy Spirit who guides...

"...yet it is REBELLIOUS MEN in the 16th century who decided that the Holy Spirit was wrong."

Men who 'rebelled' against the out-of-control and crazy dominion of the Catholic religion, not against the pure religion of Jesus Christ (James 1), which is given by Scripture. "One man's rebellion is another man's revolution" (Anonymous)

"... by WHOSE authority - other than Martin Luther's did this happen?"

Since it didn't happen by Catholic popal authority, then it had to be on good authority.

You are so blindly deep in the Catholicism of men's traditions (As the unbelieving Jews were in their Jews' religion) and not the Christianity of Scripture, that you can't even see past your own nose far enough to fathom that 'sola scriptura' is correct. It is Scripture to be 'sola scriptura' (Even as it was to be sola Paulua in Antioch):

"Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you...thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart...and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house...and thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes." (Deut 6)

It is Scripture only, the words of God only, that are to be taught as of God. All other traditions not found in Scripture are words of men only. (Which certainly includes those of Jews in the Jews religion and those of Catholics in the Catholics' religion)

Only in Scripture do we have any sure word of prophesy(2 Peter 1). All else is false: from men, not God.

"The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind." (Jerem 5 & 19)

Say I not well that thou art an unbelieving Catholic in the Catholics' religion, even as an unbelieving Jew in the Jews' religion?

And it has ALREADY been shown to you that the open Jewish Canon of Scripture INCLUDED the 7 Deuterocanonical Books that Protestants reject. It ha ALSO been shown that these Books are referenced some 200 times on the pages of the New Testament.

Here are some examples:
Eph. 6:13-17 - The whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.
Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.
Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

The Jewish Canon of Scripture didn't close until the 2nd century - AFTER Jesus ascended to Heaven and AFTER the destruction of the Temple.

The main advocate for removing the 7 Books was Rabbi Akiva who was ALSO known for declaring that a man named Simon bar Kohkkba was the "Real" Messiah during the 2nd Jewish Revolt.

So your POST-Christ, POST-Temple Canon of Scripture was declared by a FALSE prophet (Akiva) who declared a FALSE Christ (Kohkkba).

The fact that YOU don't see a problem with that speaks VOLUMES about your ignorance of History and Scripture.

And the fact that YOU believe that the Holy Spirit guides all individuals - regardless of the fact that they are disobedient to Christ's Church is why there are tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines based on the idea that they were all "guided" to this confusion by the Holy spirit.

What a mess . . .

robert derrick · May 24, 2021

michaelvpardo said:
Why? Perhaps this isn't what you're looking for, but church history informs us that among other things, one reason for the ancient split between the churches of Rome and Constantinople was a disagreement over allowing the "laity" to keep household images of "patron saints" in place of their household gods. The patron saints are supposed to answer prayers within their responsibilities in a manner similar to the household gods, who were supposed to answer prayer according to their realms and powers. If you're wondering which of the pagan gods Mary replaced, that would've been the goddess of fertility, a prime mover in the various pagan religions.

Very good and thanks. I had not thought of the connection between the 'patron saints' of the Catholic Religion and the 'household gods' of Roman Paganism.

And frankly the household gods of the Romans were at least known family heritage, whereas the so-called 'saints' of Catholicism have absolutely no real connection with their worshippers...

And yes, Catholicism has become pagan, or at least paganish, with these worshipped saints and the exaltation of the Mother of God alongside or even higher than that other God, the Father and His Son Jesus.

Whether Unitarianism with 'Jehovah' or Catholicism with 'Mary', whenever you try to add another Person to the Godhead, to make a Fourth for yourself, then you have paganized 'Christianity' away from the faith of Jesus only, even as they must bastardize 'Christianity' away from the Scriptures only.

And this is all from the prince and power of the air, who initially tried to make himself a Fourth one in the Godhead, when he presumed to ascend above the clouds and be like the most High." (Isaiah 14) Lucifer tried getting Jesus to worship him and failed, but he has gotten those who give lip-serve to the name of Jesus to worship his 'mother' and his 'saints', which he made for them by oral and written tradition of men...

And yes, they have renamed Demeter, 'Mary'.

BreadOfLife · May 24, 2021

kcnalp said:
You're a Greek expert? You can rewrite our Christian Bible? Was "Pope" Peter sinless too? Is Mary your God? Is Mary your savior?

Those are pathetically-desperate questions.
I'm no Greek expert - but I do my homework.

"It is permissible, on Greek grammatical and linguistic grounds, to paraphrase kecharitomene as completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament)

There is no question of a "secondary" reality, one that would have touched her only ulteriorly. Rather, it pertains to the very identity of Mary. Moreover, the appellation κεχαριτωμένη, in all of Scripture, is reserved to Mary, as if it were her special mark. In fact, some have tried to see in the parallel with Gideon, a demonstration that the κεχαριτωμένη would refer only to a grace that is to come, one to follow immediately. For Gideon is called "valiant warrior" at a time when he is not yet such; therefore κεχαριτωμένη would signify a grace that is not present before the angel's greeting. However, as contrasted with what concerns Gideon, the angel does not apply to Mary a noun bracketed with an adjective, but a perfect participle, a verbal form that refers to a past that is prolonged in the present. Therefore, it is before the angel's greeting, before the Incarnation, that Mary is κεχαριτωμένη.
(Kecharitomene (Lk. 1:28) in the Light of Gen. 18:16-33: A Matter of Quantity François Rossier University of Dayton)

Kecharitōmĕnē is the perfect passive participle of charitŏō. It denotes one who has been and still is the object of divine benevolence, one who has been favored and continues to be favored by God, one who has been granted supernatural grace and remains in this state.[1] Verbs ending in ŏō, such as haimatŏō (turn into blood), thaumatŏō (fill with wonder), spodŏōmai (burn to ashes) frequently express the full intensity of the action. Kecharitomene denotes continuance of a completed action. (H. W. Smyth, Greek Grammar [Harvard University Press, 1968], p. 108-109, sec 1852:b.)

From hermeneutics.com
KE – perfect tense (prior event/occurrence/happening that is still existing/occurring or happening now)
CHARITO – a gift, something that is free or unmerited
MENE – a female receiver not giver.
κεχαριτωμένη (translated 'full of grace;' 'highly favored' etc.)

The Greek word κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitōmenē) is the word of contention here as regards translation differences. And it is has much to do with the theology of the translator, but only to a degree—no translations of it have been strictly wrong or right since only dynamic translations (“full of..,” “highly..” etc.) are really possible with such a grammatically rich word. That is, it is difficult to render a single Greek word so rich in meaning (grammatically) into an equivalent word in English: in fact, that is arguably impossible (without being a very ugly translation).

To make matters worse, κεχαριτωμένη is titular, meaning it is actually used as a title, or 'name' for Mary: Gabriel doesn't say, 'Hail, Mary! You are highly favored/full of grace,' He gives Mary a title of sorts: “Hail, κεχαριτωμένη!”

The fact is that YOU can't refute what I wrote. . .

The 'blessed virgin Mary'

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