Will believers really be saved? (OSAS vs Loss of Salvation)

GracePeace said:

The idea that hearts can't change to hearts of unbelief is unbiblical as we are warned that sin "hardens" which can turn the heart unbelieving Hebrews 3:12-13.
The idea children can't "unbecome" children is not biblical either Deuteronomy 32:5.

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1. If you truly felt gods love you would understand. God is
2. Not going to give eternal life to someone he knows later will stop believing
3. We are born of blood. We can. I longer stop Being a child than you can have your fathers blood stop flowing in you

get out of Gods way man

GracePeace said:

Also the arguments in the reply which this reply of yours is supposed to address were not responded to.

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Actually they were. You just do t like the responses. That’s fine though you don’t have to like them

Eternally Grateful said:

1. If you truly felt gods love you would understand. God is
2. Not going to give eternal life to someone he knows later will stop believing
3. We are born of blood. We can. I longer stop Being a child than you can have your fathers blood stop flowing in you

get out of Gods way man

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You are in God's way when you militate against His Word--eg, "they are no longer His children" Deuteronomy 32:5, "the one who sinned against Me I will blot out of My book" Exodus 32:33, Revelation 3:4-5.

Eternally Grateful said:

Actually they were. You just do t like the responses. That’s fine though you don’t have to like them

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Actually, I was mistaken, because I got this thread mixed up with my thread about "Eternal Life". lol

GracePeace said:

You are in God's way when you militate against His Word--eg, "they are no longer His children" Deuteronomy 32:5, "the one who sinned against Me I will blot out of My book" Exodus 32:33, Revelation 3:4-5.

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Yet he said he would
Never leave nor forsake

and the people he blots out are the condemned ones. Who according to Jesus are non believers

John said a child of God can’t live in sin. Whoever wins has never seen or known God. I guess John lied. And one born of God can live in sin. You said so. John does not know what he is talking about

Eternally Grateful said:

Yet he said he would
Never leave nor forsake

and the people he blots out are the condemned ones. Who according to Jesus are non believers

John said a child of God can’t live in sin. Whoever wins has never seen or known God. I guess John lied. And one born of God can live in sin. You said so. John does not know what he is talking about

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1. Same John said God blots people out of His book for sinning "defiling their garments"--you must've misunderstood him--same as God always has done Exodus 32:33 because God doesn't change Malachi 3:6.
2. Show me where Jesus said "people who never believed get blotted out".
3. John says "because the seed abides in him" he can't go on sinning--but people fall away from the faith, in which case the seed is no longer abiding, so not a problem.

GracePeace said:

1. Same John said God blots people out of His book for sinning "defiling their garments"--you must've misunderstood him--same as God always has done Exodus 32:33 because God doesn't change Malachi 3:6.
2. Show me where Jesus said "people who never believed get blotted out".
3. John says "because the seed abides in him" he can't go on sinning--but people fall away from the faith, in which case the seed is no longer abiding, so not a problem.

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Yawn

Jesus said he who does not believe is condemned already

that’s who is condemned

John said a sinner has never met or seen God period, you think joh is going to contradict himself?

those who sin and die in that state are blotted out, John is correct, sinners who fail to repent are blotted out.,

thank you for confirming that,

Anyway let’s let John speak

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

we don’t sin because we have been born of Gods not because we are special or do anything great.

we are born of God by faith in Christ,, if you have faith, and are born again from that faith. Your ability to live in sin ceased NOT because your great, because your born of God,

he who bagan a good work will complete it

he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified

why do yur doubt Gods ability to change his children like he promised?

Eternally Grateful said:

Yawn

Jesus said he who does not believe is condemned already

that’s who is condemned

John said a sinner has never met or seen God period, you think joh is going to contradict himself?

those who sin and die in that state are blotted out, John is correct, sinners who fail to repent are blotted out.,

thank you for confirming that,

Anyway let’s let John speak

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

we don’t sin because we have been born of Gods not because we are special or do anything great.

we are born of God by faith in Christ,, if you have faith, and are born again from that faith. Your ability to live in sin ceased NOT because your great, because your born of God,

he who bagan a good work will complete it

he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified

why do yur doubt Gods ability to change his children like he promised?

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Yes, when the work is started, that is God, and when the work is completed, that is God.
That's called a "deflection"--you never answered where "blotting out" fits in your system.
It doesn't fit in your system--you have no place for that Word from God.
"Perfected": without endurance you'll be destroyed.
"Ability": God isn't mindless power--His mind spoke words telling us how He uses His power.
He says "they are no longer His children" because of sin Deuteronomy 32:5.
He blots men out of His Book Exodus 32:33--same thing today Revelation 3:4-5.
"God doesn't change" Malachi 3:6.
That's not "doubt", that's called "faith toward God" Hebrews 6:1.
I believe God when God speaks.

GracePeace said:

Yes, when the work is started, that is God, and when the work is completed, that is God.
That's called a "deflection"--you never answered where "blotting out" fits in your system.
It doesn't fit in your system--you have no place for that Word from God.

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Your being dishonest. I told you exactly how it fit in my system. If your not going to pay attention to my posts. Maybe we should move on. Please read again


[/quote]
"Perfected": without endurance you'll be destroyed.
"Ability": God isn't mindless power--His mind spoke words telling us how He uses His power.
He says "they are no longer His children" because of sin Deuteronomy 32:5.
He blots men out of His Book Exodus 32:33--same thing today Revelation 3:4-5.
"God doesn't change" Malachi 3:6.
That's not "doubt", that's called "faith toward God" Hebrews 6:1.
I believe God when God speaks.[/QUOTE]
You read the passage like you read my post it is not we who sanctify ourself after we are perfected it is God himself

we are being sanctified the passage says

you quoting me an OT passage is not going to help. Show Me under the new covenant where eternal life can be lost

Eternally Grateful said:

Your being dishonest. I told you exactly how it fit in my system. If your not going to pay attention to my posts. Maybe we should move on. Please read again

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I'm not being dishonest to my knowledge.
Please give me a link to where you make it clear because I honestly don't remember seeing it.

Eternally Grateful said:

You read the passage like you read my post it is not we who sanctify ourself after we are perfected it is God himself

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It's not one or the other, it's both.
We are co-laborers with God.
"it was given her to clothe herself with... the good deeds of the saints" Revelation 19:7-8

Eternally Grateful said:

we are being sanctified the passage says

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Agreed.

Eternally Grateful said:

you quoting me an OT passage is not going to help. Show Me under the new covenant where eternal life can be lost

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God wrote the OT with us in mind 1 Corinthians 9:10, 1 Corinthians 10:11.
Therefore, you have no reason to say "it doesn't apply to me."
God doesn't change Malachi 3:6--in many ways these things directly apply.
That's what is taught in the 1 Corinthians 9 and 10 passages shared.
Now, here's one example of a dynamic/principle that we see remains:
He blots sinning covenant members out of His Book Exodus 32:33--same today Revelation 3:4-5.

GracePeace said:

I'm not being dishonest to my knowledge.
Please give me a link to where you make it clear because I honestly don't remember seeing it.

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It was in the very post you responded to, see you did not read it like I asked you to, how can I take you seriously?
I will give you one more change, reread that post and tell me what I said about those who would be blotted out

It's not one or the other, it's both.
We are co-laborers with God.

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that makes no sense

I guess your Bible says he has perfected forever those who may or may not be sanctified? Because those who were perfected forever must sanctify themselves? Then where does perfected forever come in! Does forever not mean forever? Does perfected not mean perfected? Perfected forever or continuously is in the perfect tense it’s a completed action.

also. He who began a good work might complete it? Where is this found in scripture?

"it was given her to clothe herself with... the good deeds of the saints" Revelation 19:7-8

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this is a passage about the church not induvidual.

Again perfected forever. Will complete what he began, did God lied.

Agreed.


God wrote the OT with us in mind 1 Corinthians 9:10, 1 Corinthians 10:11.
Therefore, you have no reason to say "it doesn't apply to me."
God doesn't change Malachi 3:6--in many ways these things directly apply.
That's what is taught in the 1 Corinthians 9 and 10 passages shared.
Now, here's one example of a dynamic/principle that we see remains:
He blots sinning covenant members out of His Book Exodus 32:33--same today Revelation 3:4-5.

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Yep but if it contradicts the NT, most likely it is not a co tradition but I different context

perfected forever
Can’t sin
Being sanctified
Has eternal (not conditional) life
Will live forever
Has passed from death to life
Seal of the spirit pledge until the day of Christ

if these things are true, then these people will not be blotted out, period, else God lied.

Eternally Grateful said:

It was in the very post you responded to, see you did not read it like I asked you to, how can I take you seriously?
I will give you one more change, reread that post and tell me what I said about those who would be blotted out

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I am at fault. My apologies.
You will get your response.

atpollard said:

Jesus said:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." [John 3:14-21 NKJV]​

Paul said:

But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." [Romans 10:8-13 NKJV]​

A simple question:
Did they tell the truth, or did they lie to us?

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If you believe you will do, otherwise it's not true faith, I underlined sentences in red in your quote