The Reformers Biggest Mistake and Christianity's Need to Change it

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MatthewG

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You guys can believe how you desire.

It's a general view:

I will not move from the stance though people can and will use the bible wrong and I am not saying anyone here does. It is just a fact in life that human beings are able to make mistakes and can teach the bible wrongly; especially if the person using the bible is using the bible to their advantage even without the spirit of God.

To say that this doesn't exist would not be truthful because there are so many human beings in this life, and a extensive history of good and bad uses of the bible. The Reformation was one of those historical events.

The bible has extensive value and it can change a human beings life depending on the user who is using to understand seek the truth about God and the Lord Jesus Christ. Great information about God and the Lord Jesus Christ, and many great promises that given to the believer.

The bible can have terrible value if it is used for a person like you said marks, bashing someone over the head, and indoctrinating others their own view, and stripping freedom, and placing bondage on others, and it has been a fact to see via the cults that have come up along in history as well.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.
 

quietthinker

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Hello you and welcome.

I think that Bible is one of the greatest gifts to humanity when it is in the right right hands. I also think it can be the greatest curse, if it is in the wrong hands.

This video is 12 minutes long.
The Reformers Biggest Mistake and Christianity's Need to Change it

Do you have any thoughts about on these things?
The reformers didn't do what this guy is saying they did. He is imposing his stuff on the reformers which is an interesting development on its own.
 

Enoch111

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To say that this doesn't exist would not be truthful because there are so many human beings in this life, and a extensive history of good and bad uses of the bible. The Reformation was one of those historical events.
You are claiming that the Reformers misused the Bible by making the Bible -- the Word of God -- the supreme authority in all matters of faith and practice? Do you realize how ludicrous that sounds? SOLA SCRIPTURA was meant to bring people back to the Bible. That is definitely not a misuse of the Bible.

Keep in mind that the Catholic church at that time was bound and determined to keep the Bible from ordinary people, and also insisted that only their priests could properly interpret Scripture. But if that were true, the CC would have the soundest doctrine, not the opposite.
 
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Pathfinder7

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Hello you and welcome.

I think that Bible is one of the greatest gifts to humanity when it is in the right right hands. I also think it can be the greatest curse, if it is in the wrong hands.

This video is 12 minutes long.
The Reformers Biggest Mistake and Christianity's Need to Change it

Do you have any thoughts about on these things?
The Reformation opened the door..
- For the concept/idea..that individuals could interpret the Bible.
----
I read an interesting book...some time ago.
'Christianity's Dangerous Idea..The Protestant Revolution'
- A History from the Sixteenth Century to the Twenty-First.
Alister McGrath
 

MatthewG

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The reformers didn't do what this guy is saying they did. He is imposing his stuff on the reformers which is an interesting development on its own.

Either way it goes the Bible in the wrong hands can be abused. It would be impossible to discredit it as a factual statement. Because look at all the past cults and things and how people make the Bible the authority and can place religious demands upon people opposed to what Jesus Christ came to do which was to set free those in captivity bringing them into the light of the Kingdom of God by and through faith.

You are claiming that the Reformers misused the Bible by making the Bible -- the Word of God -- the supreme authority in all matters of faith and practice? Do you realize how ludicrous that sounds? SOLA SCRIPTURA was meant to bring people back to the Bible. That is definitely not a misuse of the Bible.

Keep in mind that the Catholic church at that time was bound and determined to keep the Bible from ordinary people, and also insisted that only their priests could properly interpret Scripture. But if that were true, the CC would have the soundest doctrine, not the opposite.

Enoch I do not believe in sola scriptura. Instead sola spiritus.

The Reformation opened the door..
- For the concept/idea..that individuals could interpret the Bible.
----
I read an interesting book...some time ago.
'Christianity's Dangerous Idea..The Protestant Revolution'
- A History from the Sixteenth Century to the Twenty-First.
Alister McGrath
Pathfinder
I do not even know anything really all that much about the reformation. What happened?
 

Brakelite

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Hello my friend . how bout this for an answer .
I let the Spirit be my guide and the Spirit put me in ONE BOOK the BIBLE .
And by learning it we become wise through the work of the Spirit .
SO here is what i do . I test anything and everything folks do teach , say and do .
IF it contradicts the scriptures , I KNOW it aint OF THE SPIRIT .
HOW so you might ask , cause the SPIRIT INSPIRED THE SCRIPTURES . IT wont contradict what IT INSPIRED .
IF it does , IT AINT THE HOLY SPIRIT . Its another spirit working through the flesh . that is all it is .
I cling to THE SPIRIT and i cling to ONE BOOK . THE HOLY BIBLE .
Excellent mate.
 
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Pathfinder7

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Either way it goes the Bible in the wrong hands can be abused. It would be impossible to discredit it as a factual statement. Because look at all the past cults and things and how people make the Bible the authority and can place religious demands upon people opposed to what Jesus Christ came to do which was to set free those in captivity bringing them into the light of the Kingdom of God by and through faith.



Enoch I do not believe in sola scriptura. Instead sola spiritus.


Pathfinder
I do not even know anything really all that much about the reformation. What happened?
My advice is to start..reading online articles about the 'Reformation History.'
- You can learn..different perspectives/views..
----
You can find..Kindle e books.
- On the Reformation History.
---
It might take time/effort..learning about the 'Reformation.'
 
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Brakelite

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I'd like to confirm @Enoch111 conclusion as to the main mistake of the reformation. They didn't come fully out of Catholicism... Which is true. In other words, the reformers stopped reforming. When Kenneth Copeland and his fellow cronies declareda few years ago the reformation over, they lied. What they should have said was, it isn't finished, and let's get on with it. I disagree with Enoch when he said it's too late to do anything about it. I think bro you need to look around... There's progress aplenty. You're just not seeing it.
 

Truth7t7

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Do you make the bible authority?

I have to make a decision here: To let the living God of the bible : who also lives outside of the bible ~ be the authority in my life.

Or do I make the bible my authority in my life instead?

What do you choose? The bible as your authority or living by the spirit instead?

These are my questions @marks
The Bible is Gods words to man, as you suggest a Christian wander about by the Spirit, without the written words of God?

Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, led by Gods Spirit, quoted (It Is Written)

Gods written words are the authority for the believers life, as clearly seen in the very words of Jesus Christ below.

(Matthew) 4:1-11KJV
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
 
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Brakelite

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I have to make a decision here: To let the living God of the bible : who also lives outside of the bible ~ be the authority in my life.
It isn't either/or. The Catholic Church rejection of scripture as the final authority directly affected her connection to truth. It's one thing to claim Jesus as Lord... It's quite another when the 'Jesus' you claim to be hearing and obeying is contradicting what His own Spirit inspired His servants to convey in scripture. The moment you reject scripture as final authority that is when you invite any bishop, priest, or Pope to impose his own philosophy and preferred biases and man made doctrines upon the church. In such a situation there is no standard. No bottom line. No limits to apostasy. No benchmark to aspire to.
 

amadeus

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The Bible is Gods words to man, as you suggest a Christian wander about by the Spirit, without the written words of God?

Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, led by Gods Spirit, quoted (It Is Written)

Gods written words are the authority for the believers life, as clearly seen in the very words of Jesus Christ below.

(Matthew) 4:1-11KJV
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Aye...! Indeed here we see the devil quoting the scriptures at Jesus. Out of the devil's mouth they were dead words. Jesus quoted scriptures at the devil in response, but the words out of Jesus' mouth were Alive and put the devil down...

Consider the sword guarding the way back into the Garden of Eden. Consider also the fiery furnace into which Nebuchadnezzar's soldiers threw the three Hebrews. The soldiers, the strongest in their flesh died just in coming near that the fire seven times hotter than the norm. The three Hebrews on the other hand, trusting God were not hurt at all by the fire. Only the ropes that bound them were burned up.

That sword and that fire are like the Bible. Wielded by hands submitted to the Spirit it accomplishes wonders for God, but misused the result can be terrible indeed!

The Bible is like Nehushtan when initially made saving people who looked on it from the deadly serpents, but much later when people made it into a mini-god, the king had it destroyed! Don't throw away your Bibles, but be sure that the words we read are quickened in us by the Holy Spirit rather than misused to hurt people already in pain. Help us dear Lord!
 

marks

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You guys can believe how you desire.
I suppose everyone does that, however, telling someone to "believe what you want" implies that's what they want to do, just select according to preference things to call true.

The bible can have terrible value if it is used for a person like you said marks, bashing someone over the head, and indoctrinating others their own view, and stripping freedom, and placing bondage on others, and it has been a fact to see via the cults that have come up along in history as well.
But the problem is not with the Bible. The problem is the person who is being hurtful.

Much love!
 

amadeus

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I suppose everyone does that, however, telling someone to "believe what you want" implies that's what they want to do, just select according to preference things to call true.


But the problem is not with the Bible. The problem is the person who is being hurtful.

Much love!
The Bible on a shelf, never opened and never read... or if opened but only used for devilish purposes is good for the fire alone.
 

MatthewG

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I suppose everyone does that, however, telling someone to "believe what you want" implies that's what they want to do, just select according to preference things to call true.


But the problem is not with the Bible. The problem is the person who is being hurtful.

Much love!

I believe in the Philosophy of Questioning, and Challenge Everything ~ And Love Everyone ~ And Respect Everyone ~ By and through walking in the spirit by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is true. In Christianity there are a multiple set of different beliefs, when it comes to the bible.

There is the belief that Jesus Christ is still returning today. Some believe that the bible still talks about his return coming today in modern time, when if looking at the context of the bible it seems those people were waiting in an expectant return; even before the disciples finish going through all of Israel the Son of Man will return. (Matthew 10:23)

There is the belief that when this happens, the world is going to come to an end. Which not true. The world will never come to an end according to the bible.

There is those saying that once saved always saved, there is no way to fall away, or walk away from faith, which is not true. People can fall away from faith, and even reject or renounce their faith if they choose too.

The bible can be used to justify polygamy, and all sorts of other things, but is it true are those things really to be dabbled in?

To me people will believe what they want, but the truth is an can be found in the bible. And undeniably is Jesus Christ the truth, the way, and the life and no comes to the Father except through him.

People can hold the bible up as authority and use it as a sword, which can be used forcefully upon others. People can use the bible as a tool, and use it as a fire, to help warm people and console people by the comfort of the scriptures instead rather than make religious demands of - YOU MUST BELIEVE THIS WAY OR YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU MUST OBEY ME AND WHAT MY INTERPERATION IS OR YOU WILL GO TO HELL.

The bible is a helpful tool. It is agreed.
 

kcnalp

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Christianity? You mean the gigantic mess of churches who nearly all believe differently? Don't worry, God will clean it up. It's called the Mark of the Beast. It will be one of God's greatest blessings ever for mankind.

Revelation 20:4 (NKJV)
4 Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
 

quietthinker

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Either way it goes the Bible in the wrong hands can be abused. It would be impossible to discredit it as a factual statement. Because look at all the past cults and things and how people make the Bible the authority and can place religious demands upon people opposed to what Jesus Christ came to do which was to set free those in captivity bringing them into the light of the Kingdom of God by and through faith.
The point is, he has misrepresented the Reformers and so is laying the foundation for the Papist agenda in the minds of the uninformed
 
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MatthewG

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Okay, if you say so. Thank you for your comment, Quietthinker.
 

Brakelite

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@MatthewG So what this guy is saying is that we judge the Bible based on whether we think the person reading it is good or evil. He has it backwards. The word of God is the final arbiter and judge of good and evil. Now sure, the scriptures can be misused and abused. As Peter said of Paul's letters...as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
But to lay this on the reformers is totally wrong and unjust. The reformers, from the time of Wycliffe and Tindale, took the Bible off the shelf...removed the chains binding it to the pulpit...rewrote it in the languages that the common people could understand. Away from Latin which only the wealthy educated could understand, to English...German...French etc. The scriptures in the beginning were written in itala and Greek...languages of the people throughout the Roman empire. It was the Catholic church that demanded scripture be written and taught only by their own priests. They didn't trust the people. They weren't beholding to the Papacy because they already had the scriptures which they meticulously copied and shared with the world. But inquisitions and war removed by and large access to the scriptures which the reformers sought to set aright. I don't know who that dude is, but he needs to relearn history. And relearn what the Bible actually is.
 

MatthewG

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@MatthewG So what this guy is saying is that we judge the Bible based on whether we think the person reading it is good or evil. He has it backwards. The word of God is the final arbiter and judge of good and evil. Now sure, the scriptures can be misused and abused. As Peter said of Paul's letters...as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
But to lay this on the reformers is totally wrong and unjust. The reformers, from the time of Wycliffe and Tindale, took the Bible off the shelf...removed the chains binding it to the pulpit...rewrote it in the languages that the common people could understand. Away from Latin which only the wealthy educated could understand, to English...German...French etc. The scriptures in the beginning were written in itala and Greek...languages of the people throughout the Roman empire. It was the Catholic church that demanded scripture be written and taught only by their own priests. They didn't trust the people. They weren't beholding to the Papacy because they already had the scriptures which they meticulously copied and shared with the world. But inquisitions and war removed by and large access to the scriptures which the reformers sought to set aright. I don't know who that dude is, but he needs to relearn history. And relearn what the Bible actually is.

Okay thank you for sharing what your thoughts are on the situation.
 

Enoch111

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But to lay this on the reformers is totally wrong and unjust.
I have not watched that video, but it looks like another Catholic apologist has come out of the woodwork to condemn the Reformers. What he should be focused on is the heretical Pope Francis, and his heretical bishops (the few that have made the news). Like you believe (though I disagree) the papacy is the Antichrist.