new version of OSAS?

Ferris Bueller said:

Tong2020 said: ↑
So then, those who did not continue were not really believers but unbelievers, right?

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Some never really believed, some did but stopped. Like the Galatians, and the Corinthians.

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Well we do have different view with regards those whom you say truly believed and stopped. For me, if one had truly believed, he would not stop but will abide. In your case, one who truly believed could stop and will not abide. That is why you believe that you can, even now, if you just will it, stop and not abide. And even after that, you can claim to have truly believed before, though not anymore, right? But Jesus says, if one do not abide in His words, he is not a true disciple. I believe in Jesus, so I take that anyone who does not abide is not a true disciple.

Tong
R3420

Corlove13 said:

I do not believe one earns salvation....
And not all works are to earn salvation.

And I do not mind being called works orientated...Because I know...I was not quickened together with Christ and reconciled to God based on my works to earn..but based on His work...His death that paid the penalty for sins.

But now that you been made alive, how are you saved by His life?.....

It's about having a clear conscience before God right? How do you suppose this Happens? If something is bothering you, you correct it. JESU

Let me do one of your numbers: point is because you were taught Osas as your Gospel
and not To trust Jesus for who he is...you can not come to see that you are an active participant in Sanctification. Living in right relationship with is diff from receiving a status. I am speaking about how we relate to God. [Jesus did what was pleasing to His Father, he obeyed His every word]

Otherwise we would not be told to make are call and elect sure.....OR to work out our salvation.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

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But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

So does this say teach OSAS.....or One needs to believe who H

Ferris Bueller said:

Yes, like the Corinthians they were led astray to a different Jesus. In their case, a Jesus who did not/could not justify a person apart from their works, the way Abraham was justified. I know there is a virulent distaste for the OT in the church today but Paul uses the offspring of Sarah and the offspring of Hagar to illustrate the fate of these two distinct children of Abraham. Only one of them is in line for the inheritance, even though they are children of Abraham. The inheritance simply doesn't go to the child born in the line of Hagar (the old covenant).

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Yes because He is talking about the seed, which is Jesus...Jesus was the seed that all man would be blessed through that would come through Abraham's lineage. Those of Faith in Jesus....as Abraham believed God for a son....

Ferris Bueller said:

Tong2020 said: ↑
Did they stop believing in Jesus as the Messiah?

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Yes, like the Corinthians they were led astray to a different Jesus. In their case, a Jesus who did not/could not justify a person apart from their works, the way Abraham was justified. I know there is a virulent distaste for the OT in the church today but Paul uses the offspring of Sarah and the offspring of Hagar to illustrate the fate of these two distinct children of Abraham. Only one of them is in line for the inheritance, even though they are children of Abraham. The inheritance simply doesn't go to the child born in the line of Hagar (the old covenant).

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Please cite scriptures that they stopped believing in Jesus, who was born of Mary, of Nazareth, who was crucified to death, died, was buried, and came back to life.

Tong
R3421

Ferris Bueller said:

Tong2020 said: ↑
May I ask, do you work out your salvation?

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By what Paul means by that, yes, I do work out my salvation.

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And what does Paul means by that?

Tong
R3422

Ferris Bueller said:

Tong2020 said: ↑
Does doing good works or doing God’s commandments in the likes of those found in the law of Moses get you saved or gets you to remain saved, since you were already saved?

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The works of the law of Moses do not make me righteous before God and eligible for the inheritance, nor do they keep me righteous and eligible for the inheritance. That happens solely through faith in God's promise of a Son and how He inherits the blessing on our behalf.

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On my question, I gather that your is that good works does not save you nor keep you saved.

<<<The works of the law of Moses do not make me righteous before God and eligible for the inheritance, nor do they keep me righteous and eligible for the inheritance.>>>
What works, if any in your belief, make you righteous before God and make one eligible for the inheritance that you refer to?

Tong
R3423

Ferris Bueller said:

I am a saved, born again Christian.


The saved, Spirit sealed Galatians stopped believing in the sufficiency of Christ for justification and went back to observance of the old covenant Festival cycle and to a different gospel. And some of the saved Corinthians stopped believing in a risen Christ. And we know it was saved people who did that because Paul said their faith has been in vain if it's true that Christ has not risen from the dead. They started believing in a different Christ, a different gospel than Paul had preached to them and which they received by which they were saved.

But if you want to believe you'll never stop believing, that's fine. I'm not going to take that away from you. You may very well never stop believing. But to project your experience onto other believers would be a mistake. Not all believers are as mature as you might be. Jesus gave various reasons why some people do not retain the word of God in them. Which, according to the Parable of the Sower, is likely to happen in those in whom the word of God is not deeply entrenched.


Paul talks about 'carnal' Christians here.......

I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 1 Corinthians 3:1-4​

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The Galatians were gentiles not Jews, so they didn't go back to old covenant works, but were being influenced by Jews that were insisting that they observe Torah or aspects of it, among them, Peter himself (which may explain where Roman Catholicism went off the rails doctrinally.
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. Galatians 2:14-16

Tong2020 said:

What works, if any in your belief, make you righteous before God and make one eligible for the inheritance that you refer to?

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Only faith, apart from works, can make one righteous in God's sight. And that faith is the faith that God will forgive you and clean you of unrighteousness and give you Jesus' righteousness, all through His sacrifice and ministry. The Galatians departed from that faith that justifies and were relying on the works of the law to be justified. And by doing so they lost the effect of Jesus in justification (Galatians 5:2). They had fallen away to faith in another gospel, which Paul said is no gospel at all. One that results in them having no part in the inheritance.

mailmandan said:

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty.

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You left out something:


9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

mailmandan said:

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty.

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And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according(into) to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If you love me you will keep my commandments John 14:15

Tong2020 said:

Well we do have different view with regards those whom you say truly believed and stopped. For me, if one had truly believed, he would not stop but will abide. In your case, one who truly believed could stop and will not abide. That is why you believe that you can, even now, if you just will it, stop and not abide. And even after that, you can claim to have truly believed before, though not anymore, right? But Jesus says, if one do not abide in His words, he is not a true disciple. I believe in Jesus, so I take that anyone who does not abide is not a true disciple.

Tong
R3420

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1 Cor 10:12

Therefore let the one who thinks he stands firm [immune to temptation, being overconfident and self-righteous], take care that he does not fall [into sin and condemnation].

Corlove13 said:

You left out something:

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according(into) to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If you love me you will keep my commandments John 14:15

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If we love Him yes we will “keep” (Greek word - “tereo”) guard, observe, watch over His commandments. which is the demonstrative evidence that we love and know the Lord.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

In both cases we see a contrast between believers and unbelievers.

Ferris Bueller said:

Tong2020 said:
What works, if any in your belief, make you righteous before God and make one eligible for the inheritance that you refer to?

Click to expand...

Only faith, apart from works, can make one righteous in God's sight. And that faith is the faith that God will forgive you and clean you of unrighteousness and give you Jesus' righteousness, all through His sacrifice and ministry. The Galatians departed from that faith that justifies and were relying on the works of the law to be justified. And by doing so they lost the effect of Jesus in justification (Galatians 5:2). They had fallen away to faith in another gospel, which Paul said is no gospel at all. One that results in them having no part in the inheritance.

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That’s right, works can not make one righteous in God’s sight. So there is no works that the Christian does that will make him righteous in God’s sight nor is there any work that he does that will keep himself righteous in God’s sight.

Tong
R3424

Corlove13 said:

Tong2020 said: ↑
Well we do have different view with regards those whom you say truly believed and stopped. For me, if one had truly believed, he would not stop but will abide. In your case, one who truly believed could stop and will not abide. That is why you believe that you can, even now, if you just will it, stop and not abide. And even after that, you can claim to have truly believed before, though not anymore, right? But Jesus says, if one do not abide in His words, he is not a true disciple. I believe in Jesus, so I take that anyone who does not abide is not a true disciple.

Click to expand...

1 Cor 10:12

Therefore let the one who thinks he stands firm [immune to temptation, being overconfident and self-righteous], take care that he does not fall [into sin and condemnation].

Click to expand...

What in that passage do you like to point out relative to my post?

Tong
R3425

Corlove13 said:

I do not believe one earns salvation....
And not all works are to earn salvation.

And I do not mind being called works orientated...Because I know...I was not quickened together with Christ and reconciled to God based on my works to earn..but based on His work...His death that paid the penalty for sins.

But now that you been made alive, how are you saved by His life?.....

It's about having a clear conscience before God right? How do you suppose this Happens? If something is bothering you, you correct it. JESU

Let me do one of your numbers: point is because you were taught Osas as your Gospel
and not To trust Jesus for who he is...you can not come to see that you are an active participant in Sanctification. Living in right relationship with is diff from receiving a status. I am speaking about how we relate to God. [Jesus did what was pleasing to His Father, he obeyed His every word]

Otherwise we would not be told to make are call and elect sure.....OR to work out our salvation.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Click to expand...

You are mistaken, I was not taught OSAS as my gospel because I was raised and confirmed a Catholic (at the age of 13). I never even heard the gospel in a Roman Catholic church, just readings from the gospels and sermons about how we should behave. I was "saved" through the ministry of a faithful coworker who patiently and over many weeks answered my questions about scripture that my carnal mind was unable to reconcile to other scripture (the supposed biblical contradictions). He was able to reconcile every one of those verses to the body of scripture. Then one day I ran into a street preacher who shared the gospel with me and prayed with me. Though I prayed, I did not receive the Lord because I still didn't understand the simplicity of the gospel or the significance of Isaiah chapter 53 (though I knew from my childhood and my very first reading of scripture that the passage was about our Lord. At that time I was so young and ignorant of biblical history that I thought the entire bible was written at one time and by the same author. I loved the book of Isaiah and I was always anxious to read more about Jesus. My concept of our guarantee of salvation came from scripture reading and with the confirmation of sound biblical teachers on Christian radio (and they certainly all aren't sound in their doctrine, but the witness in me found agreement with some as He is able to recognize Himself). I read and reread scripture cover to cover for three years and wore out my cheap copy of a king James bible in the process (the pages separated from the binder and the book literally fell apart.) Since then I've read many translations, the New King James being my favorite. After those 3 years of just reading (and seeing Jesus revealed in the old Testament) I came under conviction that I should be attending a fellowship, so my former wife and I started visiting local churches and attending worship services. During that period of time the Lord kept pointing out a small Baptist church just a few blocks from our house, so I decided to attend a service there and we stayed for a number of years. We both were baptized and made our confession before the congregation at that church though we never became members, and eventually moved on to another congregation in South Belmar where there was more room and opportunity for involvement in ministry, which had become our earnest desire.
I didn't stop reading scripture after 3 years but continued with daily reading and focused more on studying individual books (I'd had a dream that my copy of the JPS Tanaach had water poured over it and that the books became separated which I believed came from the Lord, and I ministered to a number of Jews from the Tanaach and their own HafTorah. I even was granted the opportunity to pray with a lovely old Jewish lady, by the name of Dorothy Cohen, who was a resident at the nursing home where my wife was volunteering. She was a concentration camp survivor but held no bitterness toward God and was delighted to hear the Jewish scriptures and have them explained (Jewish tradition in some places in Europe didn't allow women to sit under the teaching of rabbis and what was explained to them only came from their husbands or fathers.)
Sorry to get so far off topic, but I value personal testimony far more than the opinions of students of the scripture. Our understanding of scripture changes over time because the Holy Spirit teaches us it's meaning over time and applies it to our lives. There's only one true interpretation of scripture but diverse applications of it made by the Holy Spirit to our lives. It isn't possible for the Holy Spirit to misuse scripture, but it's His prerogative to apply it to us in any manner that He chooses in order to sanctify us. That's where many people get in trouble. They simply confuse applications to their lives with the original interpretation and why wouldn't someone do that when it's God using His word to convict of sin and convince us of truth. I'll confess that in my study my mind arrived at many Cultic notions that I'd heard from various cults from passages that I didn't yet understand, but God was faithful to show me the error of my carnal thinking and to dismiss such ideas as error.
I trust what He teaches me, it's my own derived conclusions that deserve scrutiny, but I only offer those as opinion or speculation, and only when they remain in agreement with scripture and the doctrine which leads to salvation.

Ferris Bueller said:

Get born again.

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You realize you've agreed to not call into questions someone's salvation if they are calling themself Christian.

I do it for you, fair's fair.

Much love!

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Close your account?

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I predict it's just to come back under a different name and try again.

Much love!

Ferris Bueller said:

Lol, God as my witness.......

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He will be.

Ferris Bueller said:

When someone can't see that plain truth in plain words of scripture you have to consider that person an unbeliever.

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By your own words . . .

Tong2020 said:

Please cite scriptures that they stopped believing in Jesus, who was born of Mary, of Nazareth, who was crucified to death, died, was buried, and came back to life.

Tong
R3421

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No one who is born again ever becomes "unborn again".

Those who say such things simply lack the understanding of what rebirth is. Those who have not been born again CANNOT understand. They may know what lots of Bible verses say, but they surely won't know what they mean!

Much love!

amigo de christo said:

This new stuff is gonna take places over . They are already being groomed for the very plan of the RCC .
We are witnessing a tragedy . WHEN DID JESUS ever teach folks even if they stopped believing they are and would be saved .

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He never. Because he knew his love was so great NO ONE would ever stop believing. Unless they never truly believed to begin with.

NEVER . Nor did any of them .
This false love stuff has invaded the churches and folks are running with it . We must stand firm on the original gospel .
And all sound biblical doctrine . many are not gonna make it .
JESUS will tell many folks ON HIS day , you who taught folks they could stop believing in ME , NEVER KNEW ME .

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Where is this in scripture>

Fact is , JESUS said if a man continues NOT IN ME , HE is cast out .

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John 6:37
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Even when warning his own , he warned them of the hardships they would have to endure
and that those who endured TO THE END would be saved . NOT those who fell away , not those who stopped believing or never did believe .

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endure to the end is Jesus giving hope to those in great tribulation if they just hold out to the end their physical lives will be saved. Those words have nothing to do with eternal salvation

mailmandan said:

If we love Him yes we will “keep” (Greek word - “tereo”) guard, observe, watch over His commandments. which is the demonstrative evidence that we love and know the Lord.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

In both cases we see a contrast between believers and unbelievers.

Click to expand...

Tereo- to attend to carefully, obey