Did Paul Preach The Same Message As Jesus And Peter ??

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Butch5

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I am not that proficient on the subject but here is a clip that makes sense taken from here...http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html

Peter's Gospel and Paul's Gospel

Both Peter and Paul taught that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, that he was crucified, and that he rose from the dead on the third day. So one might ask, "What is the difference between their two gospels?"

Earlier in this article, we discussed rather thoroughly the difference that Paul spoke to Gentiles and Jews whereas, Peter spoke to Israel only, with the one exception of the house of Cornelius.

A second key difference is that in making the offer of the kingdom to Israel, Peter spoke of the resurrection in order to show that the Lord was alive and could still return to be Israel's King (Acts 3:19-21). Christ's death and resurrection, the sign of Jonah, were stated as evidence. However, Peter was not proclaiming them as part of the gospel of the kingdom. But Paul taught the that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ are essential parts of our gospel of grace.

A third difference is that Paul taught that Jesus Christ died as a sacrifice for our sins, and that we are cleansed by His blood. But in all of his sermons in the early chapters of Acts, Peter made no mention of this.

Decades later, near the end of their lives, Peter and John each wrote of the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:2-3, 18-21, 2:24, 5:12 and 1 John 1:7 and 2:2). However, in the early parts of Acts, they never mention the blood, sacrifice, propitiation, or that Jesus Christ died for our sins. It had not yet been revealed.

Paul also told the Gentiles that Jesus Christ willingly gave up his life for our sins (Galatians 1:4). Whereas, Peter repeatedly accuses the Jews of murder. One example is Acts 2:36, where Peter says, "... Jesus, whom ye crucified ...." Peter also says in Acts 3:14-15, "But ye denied the Holy One ... and killed the Prince of life ...." Then in Acts 5:30 he says, "... Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." Finally Stephen, who also preached Peter's gospel, told the Jews in Acts 7:52, "Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers ...."

But Paul, on the other hand, constantly stressed the sacrificial nature of the death of Jesus Christ, "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (appeasing sacrifice) through faith in his blood ..." (Romans 3:25). The blood of Christ is not mentioned by the Peter and the other 11 apostles in Acts, yet it is a vital part of the gospel of grace. One must conclude that either the twelve were negligent, or that it had not yet been revealed to them that Christ died a sacrificial death. Certainly the apostles, filled with the Holy Spirit, did not dispense an incomplete gospel, or those that heard it would have been without hope. So the sacrificial nature of Christ's death had not been revealed to them by God, just as we saw earlier in the section titled "The Mystery of the Gospel of Grace". In reference to the cross, Peter does explain in Acts 3:18 that "But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled." However, Peter does not link Christ's death to the justification of sinners.

It is of utmost importance to realize that Paul's letters are filled with the fact that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was the sacrifice that paid for our sins. So we will allow a page or so here to look at a few example passages.

In Romans 5:6-11 Paul writes, "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." So many people think that they have to clean up their life first before they can be saved. But this passage clearly shows that Christ did not die for the righteous, but "for the ungodly". Otherwise, His death would have been in vain, for Romans 3:10 says, "... there is none righteous, no not one."

In Ephesians 1:7 Paul writes of Jesus Christ "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace ...." Then in Ephesians 2:12-13 Paul explains how we were "... without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Many other passages in Paul's letters emphasize this same point, including:

Colossians 1:20, "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him."

Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Romans 8:31-32, "... If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all ...."

Romans 4:24-25, "... if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."

1 Timothy 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all ...."

Ephesians 5:1-2, "Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour."

2 Corinthians 5:21, "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

********************************************************************************************************************

You have to grapple with the prophetic program involving the Kingdom/Israel on the one hand and the Mystery/Body of Christ as revealed to Paul on the other. Two separate programs but both linked at Calvary.


My friend, Peter and Paul were teaching different people therefore they would approach them differently. The Jews were well versed in the Sciptures the Gentiles were not, therefore they would require different approaches in teaching
 

prism

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My friend, Peter and Paul were teaching different people therefore they would approach them differently. The Jews were well versed in the Sciptures the Gentiles were not, therefore they would require different approaches in teaching
Butch,


If you compare Peter's preaching from Paul's, for the most part , not only the people and approach is different but so is much of the content.

 

bud02

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Galatians 1

Greeting
[sup]1[/sup] Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), [sup]2[/sup] and all the brethren who are with me,

To the churches of Galatia:

[sup]3[/sup] Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, [sup]4[/sup] who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, [sup]5[/sup] to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
Only One Gospel

[sup]6[/sup] I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, [sup]7[/sup] which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. [sup]8[/sup] But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [sup]9[/sup] As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
[sup]10[/sup] For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

I'm hoping Paul and all the brethren with him has made your topic clear.
but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1

[sup]10[/sup] Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. [sup]11[/sup] For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. [sup]12[/sup] Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” [sup]13[/sup] Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
[sup]14[/sup] I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, [sup]15[/sup] lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. [sup]16[/sup] Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. [sup]17[/sup] For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
 

TexUs

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Butch,


If you compare Peter's preaching from Paul's, for the most part , not only the people and approach is different but so is much of the content.
If you want a modern-day example of how vastly different the teaching methods were between Jew and Gentile...
Look at Matthew 24 (Jewish).
Then at Luke 21 (Gentile).

There actually the same exact topic and message, yet some people today hold Matthew 24 as future and Luke 21 as past (in error, I might add: they're either one way or the other).
Why? The teaching methods are vastly different.
 

prism

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From Charles Baker's Dispensational Theology Ecclesiology section
For those who say the church, the Body of Christ started in Acts 2...
1) There was already a church that existed at Pentecost (Acts 2:41 says they were added). A thing must exist before it can be added. The church that existed was the Jewish church (called out group).

2) the title "Church, which is His Body" is distinctive with Paul. It is not used at Pentecost or other NT writings.



3) Peter's preaching at Pentecost proclaimed the fact that Israel's last days had arrived, not the first days of the Body of Christ.

4) Pentecost was one of the annual Jewish feast days which depict God's redemptive dealings with Israel in the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom.




5) Paul says that it is because of the casting away of Israel that his message of reconciliation had been sent to the Gentiles.




6) Not only was Israel not cast away at Pentecost, but the first real offer of the Kingdom to Israel is here.




7) Body of Christ is joint body of Jew-Gentile, but at Pentecost there is no mention of Gentiles, only converts to Judaism.




8) At Pentecost, the believers received water baptism for the remissoin of sins. There is no record of Paul ever practicing baptism for this reason.




9) There is no indication that the Spirit was forming a new body.




10) [at Pentecost] Christ was the baptizer, baptizing with the Holy Spirit. In 1 Cor 12:13 the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer, baptizing into Christ.




11) Everything that happens at Pentecost was in direct fulfillment of prophecy...Peter quotes Joel 2 and David in Acts 2....
Paul said that the truth of the Body of Christ is a mystery which was hidden in ages past and from generations, but is now being revealed.
 

veteran

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I am not that proficient on the subject but here is a clip that makes sense taken from here...http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html

Peter's Gospel and Paul's Gospel

Both Peter and Paul taught that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, that he was crucified, and that he rose from the dead on the third day. So one might ask, "What is the difference between their two gospels?"

Earlier in this article, we discussed rather thoroughly the difference that Paul spoke to Gentiles and Jews whereas, Peter spoke to Israel only, with the one exception of the house of Cornelius.

A second key difference is that in making the offer of the kingdom to Israel, Peter spoke of the resurrection in order to show that the Lord was alive and could still return to be Israel's King (Acts 3:19-21). Christ's death and resurrection, the sign of Jonah, were stated as evidence. However, Peter was not proclaiming them as part of the gospel of the kingdom. But Paul taught the that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ are essential parts of our gospel of grace.

A third difference is that Paul taught that Jesus Christ died as a sacrifice for our sins, and that we are cleansed by His blood. But in all of his sermons in the early chapters of Acts, Peter made no mention of this.

Decades later, near the end of their lives, Peter and John each wrote of the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:2-3, 18-21, 2:24, 5:12 and 1 John 1:7 and 2:2). However, in the early parts of Acts, they never mention the blood, sacrifice, propitiation, or that Jesus Christ died for our sins. It had not yet been revealed.

Paul also told the Gentiles that Jesus Christ willingly gave up his life for our sins (Galatians 1:4). Whereas, Peter repeatedly accuses the Jews of murder. One example is Acts 2:36, where Peter says, "... Jesus, whom ye crucified ...." Peter also says in Acts 3:14-15, "But ye denied the Holy One ... and killed the Prince of life ...." Then in Acts 5:30 he says, "... Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." Finally Stephen, who also preached Peter's gospel, told the Jews in Acts 7:52, "Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers ...."

But Paul, on the other hand, constantly stressed the sacrificial nature of the death of Jesus Christ, "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (appeasing sacrifice) through faith in his blood ..." (Romans 3:25). The blood of Christ is not mentioned by the Peter and the other 11 apostles in Acts, yet it is a vital part of the gospel of grace. One must conclude that either the twelve were negligent, or that it had not yet been revealed to them that Christ died a sacrificial death. Certainly the apostles, filled with the Holy Spirit, did not dispense an incomplete gospel, or those that heard it would have been without hope. So the sacrificial nature of Christ's death had not been revealed to them by God, just as we saw earlier in the section titled "The Mystery of the Gospel of Grace". In reference to the cross, Peter does explain in Acts 3:18 that "But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled." However, Peter does not link Christ's death to the justification of sinners.


That's nothing but Dispensationalist dreaming. The early chapters of Acts are plentiful to show that the Apostles preached forgiveness of sins by preaching Christ crucified...

Acts 10:34-44
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (He is Lord of all:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: Who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; Whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed Him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with Him after He rose from the dead.
42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He Which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(KJV)

That was Peter preaching The Gospel of Jesus Christ to Gentiles for the "remission of sins", even before Paul went to the Gentiles. Christ's Salvation for the remission of sins is what "the prophets witness" was about.


Acts 8:34-37
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
(KJV)

Wow! That's the same confession of The Gospel of Jesus Christ for remission of sins that everyone must confess, that Jesus Christ is The Son of God!


Acts 4:2
2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
(KJV)


Acts 4:33
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
(KJV)


Acts 5:30-32
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, Whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are His witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, Whom God hath given to them that obey Him.
(KJV)


Acts 5:42
42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
(KJV)


Acts 8:4-5
4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
(KJV)


Acts 8:25
25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.
(KJV)


Wow! That's The Gospel to Gentiles again, even while Paul (Saul) was still following the Jew's tradition against Christ.


Peter and all Christ's Apostles preached the SAME GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST that Paul preached. It's because the only 'other' gospel is that of the devil, the "another Jesus" Paul warned about (2 Cor.11).


Dispensationalism is a doctrine of men. It was devised long ago in 1800's Britain. John Darby got it from the Edward Irving Church. It continued through the Scofield Bible version. It was part of 'their' FALSE SUPPORT FOR A PRE-TRIB SECRET RAPTURE. (John Darby coined the phrase "secret rapture" in promoting a false gathering of the saints in secret, prior to the start of the great tribulation.

The Bible scholar Ernest Sandeen quoted Darby's in Britain of how there were Illuminati members in the Church that were wildly quoting Scripture about Christ's coming, showing the pre-trib secret rapture ideas were most likely spread by them (see The Incredible Cover-Up by Dave McPherson).

Why would there be an Illuminati connection with the false Pre-Trib "secret rapture" theory? Simple. It's because our Lord Jesus and His Apostles (especially Paul), warned us that a pseudochristos (false messiah) must come first, prior to our Lord Jesus' return.

The Illuminati is behind the forming up of the one-world beast kingdom of Rev.13 for the end of this world, and the setting up of that false beast messiah of Rev.13:11, the "another beast" which John was shown. Paul explained to the Thessalonians in his 2nd Epistle to them, to not listen to false ones among the brethren that were confusing the correct time of Christ's coming on the day of The LORD and our gathering to Him (2 Thess.2). Paul warned in 2 Cor.11 about that "another Jesus", and Satan disguised as an angel of light, and his ministers as the ministers of righteousness.

dan p and prism may not understand all that yet, but they will, but in shame if they continue in that false Dispensationalist doctrine with the Illuminati's Pre-trib secret rapture theory.



 

prism

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Veteran,

Acts 10 is hardly early Acts. Peter had already been given an open door to the Gentiles through the vision. Regarding the article I quoted... you proved nothing to the contrary. Then you proceeded to 'smoke us' with the 'ol illuminati' conspiracy theory. Try to stay on point without letting paranoia derail your thinking.
 

TexUs

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I'm just going to re-post what I already posted once... It's hard to argue with modern day examples ;)
If you want a modern-day example of how vastly different the teaching methods were between Jew and Gentile...
Look at Matthew 24 (Jewish).
Then at Luke 21 (Gentile).

There actually the same exact topic and message, yet some people today hold Matthew 24 as future and Luke 21 as past (in error, I might add: they're either one way or the other).
Why? The teaching methods are vastly different.
 

Butch5

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Homer Ga.
Butch,


If you compare Peter's preaching from Paul's, for the most part , not only the people and approach is different but so is much of the content.

Of course it is. What good would it do to say the the Gentiles, the Messiah has come? They would look at you and say, what messiah? The majority of the Gentiles had no knowledge of the Jewish Scriptures and would not be expecting a Messiah.

If you were hiring someone to work on the engine of a 747 and you had two candidates, one who had a general knowledge and understanding of aircraft engines and another who had no understanding of aircraft at all, obviously you would have to teach them differently. The content of your teaching would be different. The one who knows about aircraft would only need minor teaching on the specific engine, whereas the one with no knowledge of aircraft at all would need much more teaching and the content would include much more information not given to the first guy.

Notice, we don't really see any moral teaching given by the 12 to the Jews? why? There was no need, they already knew what God expected of them, they had the Law. The Gentiles on the other hand did not have the Law. Some pagan worship even included the use of prostitutes in the pagan temples, where worshippers were require to partake. They needed to be instructed in these matters. Paul being the main preacher to the Gentiles would have have to explain that the ture God does not allow this kind of behavior. Likewise, dealing with Gentiles Paul would have to explain why they needed to be saved before convincing them to be saved. The Jews on the other hand did not need to be shown they needed to be saved, they already knew this, That is why they were looking for their Messiah. So, the 12 had no need to tell the Jews, before Christ came you were dead in trespasses and sins. They knew this, they knew their ancestors had been exiled for their sins against God. Notice also, on Mars Hill, Paul has to start at the very beginning when explaining who God is. He does this before he ever gets around to talking about Jesus. This was not necessary for the Jews, they already knew who God was, who His Son was, and were already anticipating the Messiah. So, the content would be different for the Jews and the Gentiles.


This issue is can all of the Scriptures be reconciled with the dispensationalist view? My question to you is, are you willing to accept what the Scriptures say? The reason I ask is because many times these discussions become ping pong matches, batting Scriptures back and forth. This is not the proper way to 'Rightly divide the word".

Consider Jesus' words.


Matthew 28:18-20 ( KJV )
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world
. Amen.

The Greek word translated "Nations" is Gentles. If the message of the 12 was different from that of Paul and only for the Jews, why did Jesus tell them to take that message to the Gentiles?

Thayer’s Greek Definitions
G1484 ἔθνος ethnos Thayer Definition: 1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together 1a) a company, troop, swarm 2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus 2a) the human family 3) a tribe, nation, people group 4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles 5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament
(III) In the Jewish sense,
ta ethnē, the nations, means the Gentile nations or the Gentiles in general as spoken of all who are not Israelites and implying idolatry and ignorance of the true God, i.e., the heathen, pagan nations (Matt. 4:15; 10:5; Mark 10:33; Luke 2:32; Acts 4:27; 26:17; Rom. 2:14; 3:29; Sept.: Neh. 5:8, 9; Isa. 9:1; Ezek. 4:13; 27:33, 36; 34:13; Jer. 10:3).
 

dan p

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[quote name=you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world[/color]. Amen.

The Greek word translated "Nations" is Gentles. If the message of the 12 was different from that of Paul and only for the Jews, why did Jesus tell them to take that message to the Gentiles?

Thayer’s Greek Definitions
G1484 ἔθνος ethnos Thayer Definition: 1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together 1a) a company, troop, swarm 2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus 2a) the human family 3) a tribe, nation, people group 4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles 5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians


Hi Butch5 , and what needs to be done , is to find the usage of the word ETHNOS and lexicions can be wrong .

In Acts 10:22 , and it reads " Cornelius had a good report among the NATION / ETHNOS of the Jews ."

Unless you want to translate it " the Gentiles of the Jews " which does not make sense .

Then , in Acts 10:28 we see that Jews were not to mingle with Gentiles .

Then in John 11:50 we see how ETHNOS is used of Jews , and it is the high Priest Caaiaplas in verse 49 that says , " and that the whole NATION /ETHNOS /JEWISH nation perish not , and Lexicons can be wrong .

And in John 11:51 And this he spake he not of himself , but bei9ng high priest that year , he prophesied that Jesus should DIE for that NATION /ETHNOS /JEWISH nation .

Can anyone say that Jesus came to die for the Gentile /Ethnos in verse 51 , for He is talking about Jewish nation .

Jesus was going to die not only for the Jews in Jerusalem , but for the Jews who were scattered abroad the Roman empire as Acts 2:2 -11 and Acts 3:39 .

So ETHNOS in Matt 28:19 does not mean Gentiles at all as I have documented . dan p
 

Robbie

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I trip out on Paul sometimes... but I love him and I have gained a lot of comfort in seeing that he struggled just like me... I however don't want to be like him in any way other than that he tried to follow Christ... I want to try and follow Christ to... but I would never follow Paul following Christ.... I would only follow Christ myself... if that makes any sense...

The best way to keep the body undivided is to follow Christ alone... He's our Shepard and we're all His Flock...

Paul was just another brother who the revelation of Jesus Christ came to... there's only one name that's above all other names... and that's Jesus... not Paul or Peter or Chuck Smith or the Pope...

However... I realize this... that when we sit at the table I'll make sure to take the lowest position because I just seem to blow it over and over... and my guess is Paul will be pretty high... but who even knows... only our Father can make that call... until then... just love everyone!!!
 

prism

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I trip out on Paul sometimes... but I love him and I have gained a lot of comfort in seeing that he struggled just like me... I however don't want to be like him in any way other than that he tried to follow Christ... I want to try and follow Christ to... but I would never follow Paul following Christ.... I would only follow Christ myself... if that makes any sense...

The best way to keep the body undivided is to follow Christ alone... He's our Shepard and we're all His Flock...

Paul was just another brother who the revelation of Jesus Christ came to... there's only one name that's above all other names... and that's Jesus... not Paul or Peter or Chuck Smith or the Pope...

However... I realize this... that when we sit at the table I'll make sure to take the lowest position because I just seem to blow it over and over... and my guess is Paul will be pretty high... but who even knows... only our Father can make that call... until then... just love everyone!!!

Yes Jesus is paramount. But suppose Jesus taught Paul to reveal to the Gentiles something which was not revealed by the Prophets or the Synoptic Gospels?


And suppose Paul revealed that if he or an apostle or an angel gave forth another Gospel other than the one he preached, he or she was to be accursed?

and suppose what Paul also said was true regarding...

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
(Col 1:25-28)



Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
(Rom 16:25-26)



How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
(Eph 3:3-6)



So you may not want to follow Paul's example (shipwrecked,stoned, beatings, hunger, imprisonment etc. etc). but it would be wise to follow what he taught. Paul addressed the Gentiles, Jesus for the most part taught the Jews in preparation for their coming Kingdom in which the 12 would reign.
 

Robbie

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Jan 4, 2011
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Huntington Beeach
The example of Paul's that I don't want to follow is cursing those that he felt cursed him... calling anyone other than Christ teacher... the principle of when he dividing himself against Barnabas who was the very person who stuck up for him... all over someone Paul had beef with who wasn't guilty of half of what he had done when Barnabas stuck up for him... also the fact that he felt the need to to tell everyone about how he rebuked Peter.... that sounded to me like something a social climber would do... I'm sure it was hard for Paul to let go of his phariseeness... I don't have to over complicate this by making a bible study out of it... haha... the example of Paul's that I would want to follow is that he kept on truckin... but come to think of it it's no wonder I trip out on Paul... Paul tripped out on himself... He tripped out that he wanted to do right but kept doing wrong... and he couldn't figure out why.... Jesus could have looked at him and known exactly why... and if by now Paul's reached the place where he knows as he's known he now knows too... and I agree and give thanks for Paul and the testimony he gave to the revelation of Jesus Christ...

don't listen to what people say about Paul... listen to what Paul says about himself...

Hope this blesses....
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
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And Jesus , Peter and James were all Law keepers and should be a given .
All of THE LAW?

Exodus 31:15 (NKJV)
[sup]15 [/sup]Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

And in 2 Peter 3:16 , Peter is says that I Peter as a Law of Moses keeper ,
You sure this is the verse you're looking for?
 

dan p

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Mar 26, 2009
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Yes Jesus is paramount. But suppose Jesus taught Paul to reveal to the Gentiles something which was not revealed by the Prophets or the Synoptic Gospels?


And suppose Paul revealed that if he or an apostle or an angel gave forth another Gospel other than the one he preached, he or she was to be accursed?

and suppose what Paul also said was true regarding...

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
(Col 1:25-28)



Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
(Rom 16:25-26)



How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
(Eph 3:3-6)



So you may not want to follow Paul's example (shipwrecked,stoned, beatings, hunger, imprisonment etc. etc). but it would be wise to follow what he taught. Paul addressed the Gentiles, Jesus for the most part taught the Jews in preparation for their coming Kingdom in which the 12 would reign.


Hi prism , good job , dan p
 

Butch5

Butch5
Oct 24, 2009
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Homer Ga.
[quote name=you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world[/color]. Amen.

The Greek word translated "Nations" is Gentles. If the message of the 12 was different from that of Paul and only for the Jews, why did Jesus tell them to take that message to the Gentiles?

Thayer’s Greek Definitions
G1484 ἔθνος ethnos Thayer Definition: 1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together 1a) a company, troop, swarm 2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus 2a) the human family 3) a tribe, nation, people group 4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles 5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians


Hi Butch5 , and what needs to be done , is to find the usage of the word ETHNOS and lexicions can be wrong .

In Acts 10:22 , and it reads " Cornelius had a good report among the NATION / ETHNOS of the Jews ."

Unless you want to translate it " the Gentiles of the Jews " which does not make sense .

Then , in Acts 10:28 we see that Jews were not to mingle with Gentiles .

Then in John 11:50 we see how ETHNOS is used of Jews , and it is the high Priest Caaiaplas in verse 49 that says , " and that the whole NATION /ETHNOS /JEWISH nation perish not , and Lexicons can be wrong .

And in John 11:51 And this he spake he not of himself , but bei9ng high priest that year , he prophesied that Jesus should DIE for that NATION /ETHNOS /JEWISH nation .

Can anyone say that Jesus came to die for the Gentile /Ethnos in verse 51 , for He is talking about Jewish nation .

Jesus was going to die not only for the Jews in Jerusalem , but for the Jews who were scattered abroad the Roman empire as Acts 2:2 -11 and Acts 3:39 .

So ETHNOS in Matt 28:19 does not mean Gentiles at all as I have documented . dan p
[/quote]


I'm sorry Dan, but you argument is flawed. As we have seen the Greek word can be translated Gentiles. Simply posting passages that use the word to speak of the Jews doesn't prove your point. I never said it could not, or did not also refer to Jews, It simple means a group of people, They could be Jews or Gentiles. However, there was only "ONE" Jewish nation. Look at Mathew 28 Jesus said "Nations" plural not singular. Go to the nations, more than one.

You also have a problem because Paul also says that Jesus' teaching is for the Gentiles.

Romans 16:25-27 ( KJV )
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

This was written to the Church at Rome and that church had Gentiles.

Take notice to how many times Paul used the word in reference to the Gentiles.

Thayer’s Greek Definitions

G1484 ἔθνος ethnos Thayer Definition: 1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together 1a) a company, troop, swarm 2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus 2a) the human family 3) a tribe, nation, people group 4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles 5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians Part of Speech: noun neuter A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: probably from G1486 Citing in TDNT: 2:364, 201 Total KJV Occurrences: 164 gentiles, 93 Matt 4:14-15 (2), Matt 6:32, Matt 10:5, Matt 12:18 (2), Matt 12:21, Matt 20:19, Matt 20:25, Mark 10:33, Mark 10:42, Luke 18:32 (2), Luke 22:24-25 (3), Acts 4:27, Acts 7:45, Acts 9:15, Acts 10:45, Acts 11:1, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:42, Acts 13:46-48 (3), Acts 14:2, Acts 14:5, Acts 14:27, Acts 15:3, Acts 15:7, Acts 15:12, Acts 15:14, Acts 15:17, Acts 15:19, Acts 15:23, Acts 18:6, Acts 21:11, Acts 21:19, Acts 21:21, Acts 21:25, Acts 22:21, Acts 26:17, Acts 26:20, Acts 26:23, Acts 28:28, Rom 2:13-14 (2), Rom 2:24, Rom 3:29 (2), Rom 9:24, Rom 9:30, Rom 11:11-13 (4), Rom 11:25, Rom 15:9-12 (6), Rom 15:16 (2), Rom 15:18, Rom 15:27, Rom 16:4, 1 Cor 5:1, 1 Cor 10:20, 1 Cor 12:2, Gal 2:2, Gal 2:8, Gal 2:12, Gal 2:14-15 (2), Gal 3:14, Eph 2:11, Eph 3:1, Eph 3:6, Eph 3:8, Eph 4:17, Col 1:27, 1 Thess 2:16, 1 Thess 4:5, 1 Tim 2:7, 1 Tim 3:16, 2 Tim 1:11, 2 Tim 4:17, 1 Pet 2:12, 1 Pet 4:3, 3 John 1:7, Rev 11:2
 

Butch5

Butch5
Oct 24, 2009
1,146
32
48
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Homer Ga.
Yes Jesus is paramount. But suppose Jesus taught Paul to reveal to the Gentiles something which was not revealed by the Prophets or the Synoptic Gospels?


And suppose Paul revealed that if he or an apostle or an angel gave forth another Gospel other than the one he preached, he or she was to be accursed?

and suppose what Paul also said was true regarding...

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
(Col 1:25-28)



Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
(Rom 16:25-26)



How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
(Eph 3:3-6)



So you may not want to follow Paul's example (shipwrecked,stoned, beatings, hunger, imprisonment etc. etc). but it would be wise to follow what he taught. Paul addressed the Gentiles, Jesus for the most part taught the Jews in preparation for their coming Kingdom in which the 12 would reign.


The Jews kingdom is that same one that all believers will be in.

You said

Yes Jesus is paramount. But suppose Jesus taught Paul to reveal to the Gentiles something which was not revealed by the Prophets or the Synoptic Gospels?

What exactly would that be?
 

dan p

New Member
Mar 26, 2009
358
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0
I'm sorry Dan, but you argument is flawed. As we have seen the Greek word can be translated Gentiles. Simply posting passages that use the word to speak of the Jews doesn't prove your point. I never said it could not, or did not also refer to Jews, It simple means a group of people, They could be Jews or Gentiles. However, there was only "ONE" Jewish nation. Look at Mathew 28 Jesus said "Nations" plural not singular. Go to the nations, more than one.

You also have a problem because Paul also says that Jesus' teaching is for the Gentiles.

Romans 16:25-27


Hi Butch5 , and Paul's message after Acts 28:28 was mainly to Gentiles with the Grace of God as Rom 16:25-27 reveal .

Do you see Jesus or the 12 , preaching Rom 16:25-27 ???

Of course NOT .

What you ONE GOSPEL teachers always forget is that Israel has been set aside ( 70 AD ) and the Matt 28:19 was never COMPLETED Acts reveals , which was very brief as the Jews KILLED their Messiah and Israel Kingdom was NOT set up , Acts 1:6 - 7 .

This means that Matt 28 is also been set aside as Peter and the 12 were reaching Jews and NOT Gentiles and Acts 2:5 says that they were from out of EVERY NATION / ETHNOS under heaven ( which are Jews ONLY ) and I see that you have a problem instead , since you do not see what ETHNOS means nor how it is used in the Bible .

Matt 28 , will resume during the Great Tribulation , for the Tribulation is for the PURGING of Israel and for the Gentiles that help Israel , Matt 25 , dan p
 

Butch5

Butch5
Oct 24, 2009
1,146
32
48
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Homer Ga.
I'm sorry Dan, but you argument is flawed. As we have seen the Greek word can be translated Gentiles. Simply posting passages that use the word to speak of the Jews doesn't prove your point. I never said it could not, or did not also refer to Jews, It simple means a group of people, They could be Jews or Gentiles. However, there was only "ONE" Jewish nation. Look at Mathew 28 Jesus said "Nations" plural not singular. Go to the nations, more than one.

You also have a problem because Paul also says that Jesus' teaching is for the Gentiles.

Romans 16:25-27


Hi Butch5 , and Paul's message after Acts 28:28 was mainly to Gentiles with the Grace of God as Rom 16:25-27 reveal .

Do you see Jesus or the 12 , preaching Rom 16:25-27 ???

Of course NOT .

What you ONE GOSPEL teachers always forget is that Israel has been set aside ( 70 AD ) and the Matt 28:19 was never COMPLETED Acts reveals , which was very brief as the Jews KILLED their Messiah and Israel Kingdom was NOT set up , Acts 1:6 - 7 .

This means that Matt 28 is also been set aside as Peter and the 12 were reaching Jews and NOT Gentiles and Acts 2:5 says that they were from out of EVERY NATION / ETHNOS under heaven ( which are Jews ONLY ) and I see that you have a problem instead , since you do not see what ETHNOS means nor how it is used in the Bible .

Matt 28 , will resume during the Great Tribulation , for the Tribulation is for the PURGING of Israel and for the Gentiles that help Israel , Matt 25 , dan p



Well, seee Dan, you said,

Hi Butch5 , and Paul's message after Acts 28:28 was mainly to Gentiles with the Grace of God as Rom 16:25-27 reveal .

You said Paul's message was mainly to the Gentiles. If there was a different gospel for the Gentiles why was Paul preaching it to the Jews???

I hate to have to say it Dan, but you don't get to define the terms. You can't just indiscriminately apply passages of Scripture as you see fit. Please show where Israel was set aside. Isn't it funny that the Gentiles convert in Scripture came from Peter, not Paul. If Peter was soley to the Jews, what do you suppose he was doing at Rome? What you guys deem to froget is that when Paul went into a city he first preached to hte Jews. It was after they rejected his message that he went to the Gentiles.

My friend, a quick look at histrory tells us differently.

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 5

Hippolytus on the Twelve Apostles. Where Each of Them Preached, and Where He Met His End.

1. Peter preached the Gospel in Pontus, and Galatia, and Cappadocia, and Betania, and Italy, and Asia, and was afterwards crucified by Nero in Rome with his head downward, as he had himself desired to suffer in that manner.

2. Andrew preached to the Scythians and Thracians, and was crucified, suspended on an olive tree, at Patrae, a town of Achaia; and there too he was buried.

3. John, again, in Asia, was banished by Domitian the king to the isle of Patmos, in which also he wrote his Gospel and saw the apocalyptic vision; and in Trajan’s time he fell asleep at Ephesus, where his remains were sought for, but could not be found.

4. James, his brother, when preaching in Judea, was cut off with the sword by Herod the tetrarch, and was buried there.

5. Philip preached in Phrygia, and was crucified in Hierapolis with his head downward in the time of Domitian, and was buried there.

6. Bartholomew, again, preached to the Indians, to whom he also gave the Gospel according to Matthew, and was crucified with his head downward, and was buried in Allanum, a town of the great Armenia.

7. And Matthew wrote the Gospel in the Hebrew tongue, and published it at Jerusalem, and fell asleep at Hierees, a town of Parthia.

8. And Thomas preached to the Parthians, Medes, Persians, Hyrcanians, Bactrians, and Margians, and was thrust through in the four members of his body with a pine spears at Calamene, the city of India, and was buried there.

9. And James the son of Alphaeus, when preaching in Jerusalem, was stoned to death by the Jews, and was buried there beside the temple.

10. Jude, who is also called Lebbaeus, preached to the people of Edessa, and to all Mesopotamia, and fell asleep at Berytus, and was buried there.

11. Simon the Zealot, the son of Clopas, who is also called Jude, became bishop of Jerusalem after James the Just, and fell asleep and was buried there at the age of 120 years.

12. And Matthias, who was one of the seventy, was numbered along with the eleven apostles, and preached in Jerusalem, and fell asleep and was buried there.

13. And Paul entered into the apostleship a year after the assumption of Christ; and beginning at Jerusalem, he advanced as far as Illyricum, and Italy, and Spain, preaching the Gospel for five-and-thirty years. And in the time of Nero he was beheaded at Rome, and was buried there.