Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The New Covenant of Priest and Sacrifice does infinitely more than what the old covenant priest and sacrifice did for the person who sins. That's why we're told to keep believing in it.
new version of OSAS?
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Well he seem to claim that he have met people who claim to be born again who says that it is okay to sin or do evil.
I told him that those people only by that manifest the falsity of what they claim to be, that is, that they are born again.
Tong
R3435
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Tong
R3434
Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses. Acts 13:39
Do you know what things could not be atoned for by the old covenant system of priest and sacrifice?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I agree. The person who claims they are born again and sins willfully, thinking that has no effect on their salvation is ultimately showing they have no salvation for their willful sin to effect. That's what's so dangerous about the new Osas. It has people thinking they are saved when they really aren't, and to add insult to injury, it gives them the green light to sin willfully.
We're talking about willful, deliberate sin here. Not the sin of the struggling, Christ loving person longing to live for him, still growing up into Him, learning how to overcome sin in his life.
1For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would not the offerings have ceased? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt the guilt of their sins.3Instead, those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
but a body You prepared for Me.6In burnt offerings and sin offerings
You took no delight.7Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll:
I have come to do Your will, O God.’ ”a8In the passage above He says, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor did You delight in them” (although they are offered according to the law). 9Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.11Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time, He waits for His enemies to be made a footstool for His feet, 14because by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified.15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says:16“This is the covenant I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord.
I will put My laws in their hearts
and inscribe them on their minds.”b17Then He adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”c18And where these have been forgiven, an offering for sin is no longer needed
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
From scripture....
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess. Hebrews 4:14
23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23
23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23
As you can see, the reason we are exhorted to hold fast to our faith in Christ is Christ's ministry and sacrifice is worthy of our continued trust.
You said “What the old covenant of priest and sacrifice could not remove was your propensity to sin.”
Is that coming from scriptures or from your thinking? Was that even one of the purpose why the old covenant law was given?
You said “ But it most surely forgave certain sins. But only for as long as to the next time you sinned, because the sacrifice you made before is long gone now, and the priest who offered it may not be around anymore, either.”
What do you even want to mean to say by that?
Tong
R3437
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
He is right in that it did not take away sin, but not in the way the church understands that to mean. What it means is the old covenant system of priest and sacrifice could not take away your propensity to sin and change you from sinner to saint. Even after getting forgiven for whatever it was that could be forgiven under the old system you remained the same old sinner you'd always been. But the New Covenant of Priest and Sacrifice God has provided for his people not only forgives your sin but puts to death the slave to sin you were and makes you a free man in Christ with a clear conscience and able to serve God in holiness.
Hebrews is a deep dive, that's for sure. But if you read it slowly and deliberately it's message will come through. And you will see how different it is than what the church teaches.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think I know what you mean some after looking up the word...."propensity"
So what is man given...explain how one is given a new heart and Spirit...and what that means...
What you are arguing there isn’t the same as the case at hand, that is, one claiming to be born again and says it is okay to sin or so evil.
<<<The person who claims they are born again and sins willfully, thinking that has no effect on their salvation is ultimately showing they have no salvation for their willful sin to effect. That's what's so dangerous about the new Osas. It has people thinking they are saved when they really aren't, and to add insult to injury, it gives them the green light to sin willfully.>>>
Danger is always there in this corrupted world. I am sure you will agree that the new covenant people are under grace (of Christ), and not under law (of Moses). Do you see a danger there? Paul did.
Not that there is a danger makes something not true.
Tong
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Nope.
Compare the scriptures you quoted and what you said. They are not saying the same thing.
Tong
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Hebrews 10:2 the the propie
So
I believe I didn't quoute all the passage where it says something like He will put a new Heart and Spirit within...
So
Read the rest of Hebrews 10, I only quoted part....
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The Bible calls them people who turn the grace of God to licentiousness and state their eternal state was ordained
they are No more true believers than the religious person trying to earn their salvation by works. Both have pride issues which must be broken for them to see Gods truth
That’s a lot of opinion in there.
<<<And you will see how different it is than what the church teaches.>>>
What church?
Tong
R3440
When I think of "make perfect"
I am thinking it's the conscience...that needs to be clear
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The Protestant church. I'm not familiar enough with the Catholic churches to know what they believe about the matter.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the game changer. The Holy Spirit is the glory of the New Covenant.
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