(Denver;11170)
Revelation 12:1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Indeed. A woman "clothed" with the sun symbolically represents the church's character regarding the "light" of truth through the "Son" Jesus Christ. Clothing in scripture always represents character or righteouness. On her head, on her crown, are the twelve stars which represent Israel/the apostles which brought forth the Word of God.
A very similar image appears elsewhere in the Bible and it does not deal with the church but instead deals with Israel. I return to Genesis 39 and Joseph's dream: Genesis 37:9And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. 11 + 1(Joseph) = 12
This is interesting but it should be fairly standard knowledge that the tribe, i.e. nation of Israel (Jacob) was made up of 10 sons of Jacob and the two sons of Joseph. Joseph was never counted as a territory. Levi was never counted as a territorial tribe either and never had a territory named after it.AsherBenjaminDanGadIssacharJudahNaphtaliReubenSimeonZebulunThese ten were from Israel.Manasseh EphraimThese two were from Joseph.
The twelve tribes of Israel bore ensigns (Numbers 2:2). These had one of the twelve signs of the Zodiac for each house. 12 denotes governmental perfection.
As for each tribe of Israel having a flag, this would be incorrect as well, in that if we read further in Number 2 four "hosts" were named and certain tribes were to camp with there host. For example, Rueben was the host and camped with Rueben on the south side of the tabernacle were Simeon and Gad. Judah, along with Issachar and Zebulan were camped on the east side. On the west side of the tabernacle camped Ephraim, Manasseh and Benjamin. Lastly on the north side were the smallest tribes, Dan, Asher and Naphtali.
It would be blasphemous to say that the church (bride) gave rise to the groom when the groom was the one that made it possible for the bride to exist. Jesus was an Israelite and that's documented by his lineage.
It would only be "blasphemous" to say that when it is more convenient to call names than to seek and understand the truth. It is also important to note that Jesus was God incarnate, with neither DNA from a man or a woman. God is neither Jew or Israelite. Just as Noah wasn't a Jew or an Israelite, neither was Jacob, or Abraham, or Joseph neither was Jesus an "Israelite" by birth.
There are seven kings of seven mountains. As I said before, if this were merely what you say it is, how does one go about choosing the seven? These are earthly kings of mountains. I know the nonsense about Rome being built on seven hills, but there are not seven separate kings of each hill in Rome.
These "kings" derive their power from the Roman/Papal system.Revelation 17:11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. That is the second best of Revelation 13. It is a HE and HE is a king and not a mountain. He is the eighth king it says it right there.
Revelation 17:12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. They have yet to come and will receive power one hour.
24 measly hours? If we know a day in prophecy equals a year then we know one hour equals roughly 15 years. 360 days divided by 24 = 15 years. Here we can clearly see power is attributed to kings via horns (Who brought that up?!)Again, if we follow sound doctrine and seek wisdom and understanding honestly we can see that these sysmbols represent the merging of the false religous system (paganism) of Rome with the political kings of the world.Lesson 23: A Woman Rides The Beast(Revelation 17)
Revelation 12:3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. This beast differs slightly from the Revelation 13 one, but most characteristics remain the same. The difference is that there are only seven crowns and not ten.The ten horns are there though in heaven and they are later found on Earth. What does the Bible say about it again?
Is it possible that the language here is symbolic for a false political system that attacks the church led by Satan himself which persecutes the brethren? What did this great red dragon do? It drew a third part of the stars in heaven to the earth by way of it's false accusations and this very dragon was ready to devour the woman's child. (Rev. 12:9)
Revelation 17:12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. They are (wannabe) kings in heaven that will be kings on earth. These are some of the Lt.'s of Satan. These are not earthly men such as the first seven kings.
Does it say they are in "heaven" or is that what you want to read into it? Do you see "heaven" anywhere in this verse?
Revelation 17:13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. One mind that desires the same thing.
Does it make sense to you that something in "heaven" turns around in the very next verse to have one mind and give the power and strength it has with "the beast?"
Revelation 19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Who is the false prophet? A mystery? Not at all.Revelation 13:11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. He looks like a lamb but speaks just like that dragon that was tossed out of heaven because he is that dragon. He looks like the Lamb although he is nothing but a false prophet.[/LEFT]
Well at least we can concur on a point or two.
Revelation 12:1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Indeed. A woman "clothed" with the sun symbolically represents the church's character regarding the "light" of truth through the "Son" Jesus Christ. Clothing in scripture always represents character or righteouness. On her head, on her crown, are the twelve stars which represent Israel/the apostles which brought forth the Word of God.
A very similar image appears elsewhere in the Bible and it does not deal with the church but instead deals with Israel. I return to Genesis 39 and Joseph's dream: Genesis 37:9And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. 11 + 1(Joseph) = 12
This is interesting but it should be fairly standard knowledge that the tribe, i.e. nation of Israel (Jacob) was made up of 10 sons of Jacob and the two sons of Joseph. Joseph was never counted as a territory. Levi was never counted as a territorial tribe either and never had a territory named after it.AsherBenjaminDanGadIssacharJudahNaphtaliReubenSimeonZebulunThese ten were from Israel.Manasseh EphraimThese two were from Joseph.
The twelve tribes of Israel bore ensigns (Numbers 2:2). These had one of the twelve signs of the Zodiac for each house. 12 denotes governmental perfection.
As for each tribe of Israel having a flag, this would be incorrect as well, in that if we read further in Number 2 four "hosts" were named and certain tribes were to camp with there host. For example, Rueben was the host and camped with Rueben on the south side of the tabernacle were Simeon and Gad. Judah, along with Issachar and Zebulan were camped on the east side. On the west side of the tabernacle camped Ephraim, Manasseh and Benjamin. Lastly on the north side were the smallest tribes, Dan, Asher and Naphtali.
It would be blasphemous to say that the church (bride) gave rise to the groom when the groom was the one that made it possible for the bride to exist. Jesus was an Israelite and that's documented by his lineage.
It would only be "blasphemous" to say that when it is more convenient to call names than to seek and understand the truth. It is also important to note that Jesus was God incarnate, with neither DNA from a man or a woman. God is neither Jew or Israelite. Just as Noah wasn't a Jew or an Israelite, neither was Jacob, or Abraham, or Joseph neither was Jesus an "Israelite" by birth.
There are seven kings of seven mountains. As I said before, if this were merely what you say it is, how does one go about choosing the seven? These are earthly kings of mountains. I know the nonsense about Rome being built on seven hills, but there are not seven separate kings of each hill in Rome.
These "kings" derive their power from the Roman/Papal system.Revelation 17:11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. That is the second best of Revelation 13. It is a HE and HE is a king and not a mountain. He is the eighth king it says it right there.
Revelation 17:12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. They have yet to come and will receive power one hour.
24 measly hours? If we know a day in prophecy equals a year then we know one hour equals roughly 15 years. 360 days divided by 24 = 15 years. Here we can clearly see power is attributed to kings via horns (Who brought that up?!)Again, if we follow sound doctrine and seek wisdom and understanding honestly we can see that these sysmbols represent the merging of the false religous system (paganism) of Rome with the political kings of the world.Lesson 23: A Woman Rides The Beast(Revelation 17)
Revelation 12:3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. This beast differs slightly from the Revelation 13 one, but most characteristics remain the same. The difference is that there are only seven crowns and not ten.The ten horns are there though in heaven and they are later found on Earth. What does the Bible say about it again?
Is it possible that the language here is symbolic for a false political system that attacks the church led by Satan himself which persecutes the brethren? What did this great red dragon do? It drew a third part of the stars in heaven to the earth by way of it's false accusations and this very dragon was ready to devour the woman's child. (Rev. 12:9)
Revelation 17:12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. They are (wannabe) kings in heaven that will be kings on earth. These are some of the Lt.'s of Satan. These are not earthly men such as the first seven kings.
Does it say they are in "heaven" or is that what you want to read into it? Do you see "heaven" anywhere in this verse?
Revelation 17:13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. One mind that desires the same thing.
Does it make sense to you that something in "heaven" turns around in the very next verse to have one mind and give the power and strength it has with "the beast?"
Revelation 19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Who is the false prophet? A mystery? Not at all.Revelation 13:11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. He looks like a lamb but speaks just like that dragon that was tossed out of heaven because he is that dragon. He looks like the Lamb although he is nothing but a false prophet.[/LEFT]
Well at least we can concur on a point or two.