The Last Battle Happens In America!

I have to run to a previously planned appointment so will leave for now. I enjoy this conversation. I would like to steer a bit back to whirlwinds original question about America. We "North American Christians" often think we are the middle of the universe. I think that will change.

But we still play a part. I wonder what it will be. Certainly our support of Israel has been extremely important in world events. Israel would not have survived otherwise. We have been blessed because of it in my opinion.

Will we continue , or will we falter ?? Personally I feel the good in America far outweighs the bad. It is just that the good people in America seldom get to hold the microphone. The enemy always speaks.

Talk later
Martin

bud02 said:

The first thing that pops into my head is, if God intentionally blinded Israel from Rom 11 to the beginning of the trib, just what happens to all the Israelites or Jews for the last 2000 years? Its like they received a sentence of death or no chance of salvation.

Click to expand...

God has punished them and scattered them (Israel) because of stubborn disbelief , but he has never abandoned His everlasting covenant with them,

He keeps His promise in spite of the failings of his chosen people. And he does it for His own reasons , not because Israel is worthy.

God will no sooner break his covenant with Christians than he will with Israel. He stands by his promises.

The Israel prophetic time clock started to tick again with the re-gathering in 1948 . Old testament clearly teaches this re-gathering and subsequent events for the Middle Eastern country of Israel.

As far as the Gentile Christian church .... all we are told is that at some future moment the full number of gentiles will have come in and the door will be shut.

From then on the focus is on Israel. The country in the middle east. These segments of prophecy are clear , and they are scattered throughout the Old Testament in many places.

Martin W. said:

God has punished them and scattered them (Israel) because of stubborn disbelief , but he has never abandoned His everlasting covenant with them,

He keeps His promise in spite of the failings of his chosen people. And he does it for His own reasons , not because Israel is worthy.

God will no sooner break his covenant with Christians than he will with Israel. He stands by his promises.

Click to expand...

Israel broke it's own covenant by sinning so I don't see what the objection to "but sinners the last 2000 years will go to hell????"

Martin W. said:

God has punished them and scattered them (Israel) because of stubborn disbelief , but he has never abandoned His everlasting covenant with them,

He keeps His promise in spite of the failings of his chosen people. And he does it for His own reasons , not because Israel is worthy.

God will no sooner break his covenant with Christians than he will with Israel. He stands by his promises.

The Israel prophetic time clock started to tick again with the re-gathering in 1948 . Old testament clearly teaches this re-gathering and subsequent events for the Middle Eastern country of Israel.

As far as the Gentile Christian church .... all we are told is that at some future moment the full number of gentiles will have come in and the door will be shut.

From then on the focus is on Israel. The country in the middle east. These segments of prophecy are clear , and they are scattered throughout the Old Testament in many places.

Click to expand...

You still haven't addressed the issue of all the generations of "Jews / Israel " from Christ to 1948. Are they forever lost to salvation or will they receive salvation?

Please explain the different covenant between Christians vs Israel

God will no sooner break his covenant with Christians than he will with Israel. He stands by his promises.

Click to expand...

Can you provide the verses as support for this please?

As far as the Gentile Christian church .... all we are told is that at some future moment the full number of gentiles will have come in and the door will be shut.

Click to expand...

bud02 said:

....... in that is the teaching that God deals with Israel and the Gentiles in a form of separate salvation.

Click to expand...

Yes bud , it does indeed have the appearance of two separate forms of salvation , I would agree.

But Romans also clearly says all Israel will be saved (outside of the church) (but not outside of Christ.)

If indeed Israel is saved , ultimately it will be through Christ , even though it is after the fact of their current stubborn unbelief.

When nearly all is lost in the Armageddon situation , the Jews will have only one option left , it will be to cry out and pray for the promised Messiah. He does indeed come , and he looks exactly like Jesus Christ. At that moment they recognize their long standing error.

Yet they are without excuse because God opened the door of Christ for the Gentile (un-chosen) and the gentile wholeheartedly recognized and accepted Messiah Jesus. Thus the huge church built in the last 2000 years.

We must agree that Israel was dismantled and scattered in 70 AD , the focus was on the church since then , but Israel (the nation) is coming back in focus as part of God's plan.

We must accept his plan differs from the ideas of the christian cowboy in Montana

Martin
<with apologies to Montana cowboys>

Martin W. said:

But Romans also clearly says all Israel will be saved (outside of the church) (but not outside of Christ.)

Click to expand...

Wholly disagree with that. Romans 11:14, in hopes he might save "SOME" of them. There's no universal inclusion.
Romans 9:6... Not all who descend from Israel are Israel.
Also, 11:7, only his elected (the remnant) will obtain it.
Not all of Israel.

I think that alone should tell you that Israel as a nation has no special standing with God... They are not all part of the true Israel.


Paul is an example of a remnant of Israel. He persecuted the converted Israelites- but then, being part of God's remnant, turned.

You a reasonable man Martin. Many years ago when I first started learning the message of the bible, I came face to face in my heart / spirit with the questions I have asked you. I never accepted the teaching but continued with those that taught it, simply because the rest of doctrine resonated true in the Spirit. It took many years before the Lord began to reveal the error and truth. With just a glancing look that teaching indicates an uncompleted work for the Jews. So Jesus on the cross and in His resurrection had not yet completed the work or promise to the Jews. To me thats a dangerous teaching. We know that the promise repeated twice to Abraham said in the first, and all the families of the earth, following the promise given to his seed. and in the next to all the Nations of the earth in the same manor following the promise to the Jews. We see history play out the same sequence of events in the life of Christ salvation or the promise made to Abraham first for Israel then for the gentiles just as it is said in Gen 12:1-3 and Gen 22:17-18
Now we have to understand Paul all Israel is not Israel. Nor is the promise to the decedents of Abraham but unto the seed that is Christ Jesus.

In that the promise to Israel has been fulfilled in Christ, it is not an INCOMPLETE WORK. As the secret rapture teaches, nor is the 70th week yet to be fulfilled it was fulfilled 3.5 years after the cross. Nor will all of the decedents of Israel / Jacob / Abraham, be saved. Nor is there any longer Jew or Gentil as Paul says but only Christ Jesus. Like I said lots of snags as well.

But your a reasonable man and the smartest phrase I've seen all week is this. I to am careful not to become to ridged but as I hope I have pointed out many end time teaching have snags.

Martin W. said:

Most of these scenarios are simply 'best guesses' because of the lack of clear information in the bible.. For any of us to claim to know exactly what will happen is an error. I have never been rigid in any one doctrine. The Lord will do exactly what he has planned and my opinions will not change it.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where the over complication of the Israel thing came from but I have a hunch that it's been in fairly modern times...

"Israel" was "God's People". These are people he chose, gave them a covenant- rules to follow. They followed the rules, they were his people, he was their God.
You not there was no "nation" if Israel at the most fundamental level... It was simply God and the people following him.
It was composed of descendants of Jacob AND anyone willing to be circumcised. Note these are both commandments of God... It was an entirely spiritual nation. God, and his people.
It was based upon keeping of his commands (the covenant).
They were given a promise, though: an eventual new covenant that'd free them.
This went on for some time until finally the Messiah came, and fulfilled the old's promises: that he would free them.
He did so. Gone were the rules of law-keeping and circumcision.
Now, the requirement is not circumcision and law keeping but to follow Christ. It's still God, and his people- but with a new covenant.

Note what happened... Nothing really changed except for the requirements to become one of God's people!
Previously you had to become circumcised and keep his laws. Now you must just follow Christ! This in itself is what opened it up to Gentiles.

And it's still why Israel (God's people) is the same as it was over 2,000 years ago. It's God, and his people. Any Christ-follower today is part of Israel.


This is why I believe not in any special Israel status, which I realize most dispensationalists or futurists hold to and would staunchly disagree with but I think we try to overcomplicate what Christ actually did.

Martin W. said:

God has punished them and scattered them (Israel) because of stubborn disbelief , but he has never abandoned His everlasting covenant with them,

He keeps His promise in spite of the failings of his chosen people. And he does it for His own reasons , not because Israel is worthy.

God will no sooner break his covenant with Christians than he will with Israel. He stands by his promises.

The Israel prophetic time clock started to tick again with the re-gathering in 1948 . Old testament clearly teaches this re-gathering and subsequent events for the Middle Eastern country of Israel.

As far as the Gentile Christian church .... all we are told is that at some future moment the full number of gentiles will have come in and the door will be shut.

From then on the focus is on Israel. The country in the middle east. These segments of prophecy are clear , and they are scattered throughout the Old Testament in many places.

Click to expand...

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Verse 50 shows what I have been saying, that the inheritance of the promise is not dependent on promises to the flesh (Why?) bcause corruption does not inherit incoruption.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Verse 54 shows us that every human granted eternal life will eventually have incoruption and immortality, because for any to exist that do not have it then it could not be true that death is swallowed up forever.

And as far as what we will be like at that time? 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

tomwebster said:

There is NO rapture, zero, not 1 or 2 or 3.

Click to expand...

What do you call this event?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Martin W. said:

God has punished them and scattered them (Israel) because of stubborn disbelief , but he has never abandoned His everlasting covenant with them,

He keeps His promise in spite of the failings of his chosen people. And he does it for His own reasons , not because Israel is worthy.

God will no sooner break his covenant with Christians than he will with Israel. He stands by his promises.

The Israel prophetic time clock started to tick again with the re-gathering in 1948 . Old testament clearly teaches this re-gathering and subsequent events for the Middle Eastern country of Israel.

As far as the Gentile Christian church .... all we are told is that at some future moment the full number of gentiles will have come in and the door will be shut.

From then on the focus is on Israel. The country in the middle east. These segments of prophecy are clear , and they are scattered throughout the Old Testament in many places.

Click to expand...

Very interesting Martin. I also agree that God has only set the Nation of Israel aside temporarily. When He returns He will again fight for Israel. Woe unto those who hate Israel.

Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
[sup]1 [/sup]Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. [sup]2 [/sup]For I will gather all the nations to battle AGAINST JERUSALEM; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [sup]3 [/sup]Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. [sup]4 [/sup]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

Duckybill said:

Very interesting Martin. I also agree that God has only set the Nation of Israel aside temporarily. When He returns He will again fight for Israel. Woe unto those who hate Israel.

Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
[sup]1 [/sup]Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. [sup]2 [/sup]For I will gather all the nations to battle AGAINST JERUSALEM; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [sup]3 [/sup]Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. [sup]4 [/sup]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

Click to expand...

Indeed woe unto those that would hate Israel of the flesh as if they in their fleshly nations are any the better in God's eyes. God has not foresaken his covenant with them. They failed to keep their part of God's covenant (contractual agreement) with him. But God knew and has communicated to us that this is no different than any other nation would have been able to do. He therefore has supplied help to any who because they love God and his righteousness desire to become able to honor that contract with God. That help is the same help offered to all. And it is in no way hate to ask that all rejoice together with us concerning that help.

Romans 10:11-13 "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Jesus Christ was in the flesh the Law of God personified. Indeed God's Word is God's Law. We are to "put on Christ" that what the Law told us may be true of us.

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."

Rabinnical tradition uses that to say that the Law given Israel is not in heaven with God and that they are therefore justified through their traditions to tell others what those Laws mean, even when their elaboration of the Law seems clearly to be wrong.
As Paul spoke of it in the verses immediately before the ones quoted above, we see that God's mercy stepped in to physically demonstrate God's law for us in the person of Christ.

Romans 10:3-4 "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 3:21-22 "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

2 Corinthians 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:49-50 "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit [In other words, "flesh and blood is not owed the promises as though it is a right of inheritance to enter'] the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

Galatians 3:21-22 "Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now say, "Amen."

Duckybill said:

What do you call this event?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Click to expand...

We have explained that verse at least a dozen times on this board, have you not read it? What is happening in the verse and when does it take place?

tomwebster said:

We have explained that verse at least a dozen times on this board, have you not read it? What is happening in the verse and when does it take place?

Click to expand...

It is clearly a future event. Call it whatever you like. It is self explanatory.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. AND THUS SHALL WE ALWAYS BE WITH THE LORD.

The return of the Jews to Israel is in partial fulfillment of their prophetic destiny. When one examines all that has been prophesied regarding the Lord's promise to gather again the full house of Israel in the latter days, can anyone doubt the Lord's ability to fulfill His promises?

Judah constitutes only 1/12 of the full house of Israel. We should remember, however that it was the Lord who gave specified lands unto each member of the House of Israel for an everlasting inheritance. The scriptures indicate that the descendants of Israel, will, in the last days begin to remember again their covenant with the Lord. Only as Israel fully repents and remembers that covenant, can they qualify to renew and receive the everlasting promise of the Lord given to their progenitors Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and their posterity.

To date a remnant of Judah has begun to return and will continue to return to claim their promised land which they inherited from their creator. The other eleven tribes will also begin to remember their covenant with the Lord and will in His own due time be restored to the lands promised them. No unhallowed hand can stop this process. As the others of the House of Israel begin again to remember their covenant, the Lord is ready and anxious to fulfill His promise to them. A remnant of the other tribes of the House of Israel will also return to their promised lands.

Only a few of the House of Judah have at this time accepted Jesus Christ, their Messiah. This should be fully understood and accepted by others. We know that it will be only during the great siege on Jerusalem that at an overwhelming point in the great battle when all may appear to be lost, that He whose right it is to reign, will set His foot upon the mount and fight their battles to save those who remain in Jerusalem. It will be, only then, that they will look upon Him and recognize Him as their Messiah, as the scriptures so testify.

Duckybill said:

It is clearly a future event. Call it whatever you like. It is self explanatory.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. AND THUS SHALL WE ALWAYS BE WITH THE LORD.

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone said it wasn't a future event.

tomwebster said:

I don't think anyone said it wasn't a future event.

Click to expand...

Ok, but what do you call this event if not 'the rapture'?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. AND THUS SHALL WE ALWAYS BE WITH THE LORD.

Duckybill said:

It is clearly a future event. Call it whatever you like. It is self explanatory.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. AND THUS SHALL WE ALWAYS BE WITH THE LORD.

Click to expand...

Ducky this would mandate our destination being a heaven "in the air" and that position cannot be more wrong. Read Revelation 21.

Now, we know that Philip (IIRC) was teleported from one place to another so it happens.
I also know that Jerusalem (the New one), is described in specific terms and as a physical city with gates... How will God gather all people into it? I can't rule out something similar happening in the future (but I do not think 1 Thes is this event).

If you actually study 1 Thes the language of "meeting" the Lord in the air is ALWAYS used when someone goes out to meet a person, and then brings them back- Thus I believe this describes Christ's coming DOWN to earth.

Duckybill said:

Ok, but what do you call this event if not 'the rapture'?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. AND THUS SHALL WE ALWAYS BE WITH THE LORD.

Click to expand...

-- There are more scholared that those of us on this board still in disagreement on this topic so I would have a tough time taking anyone here who claims they have the definitive answer seriously.


I would share something interesting I recently read: http://bible.cc/1_thessalonians/4-17.htm




Shall be caught up - The word here used implies that there will be the application of external force or power by which this will be done. It will not be by any power of ascending which they will themselves have; or by any tendency of their raised or changed bodies to ascend of their own accord, or even by any effort of their own will, but by a power applied to them which will cause them to rise. Compare the use of the word ἁρπάζω harpazō in Matthew 11:12, "the violent take it by force;" Matthew 13:19, "then cometh the wicked one and snatcheth away;" John 6:15, "that they would come and take him by force; John 10:12, "the wolf catcheth them;" Acts 8:39, "the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; 2 Corinthians 12:2, "such an one caught up to the third heaven;" also, John 12:28-29; Acts 23:10; Jde 1:23; Revelation 12:5. The verb does not elsewhere occur in the New Testament In all these instances there is the idea of either foreign force or violence effecting that which is done. What force or power is to be applied in causing the living and the dead to ascend, is not expressed. Whether it is to be by the ministry of angels, or by the direct power of the Son of God, is not intimated, though the latter seems to be most probable. The word should not be construed, however. as implying that there will be any reluctance on the part of the saints to appear before the Saviour, but merely with reference to the physical fact that power will be necessary to elevate them to meet him in the air. Will their, bodies then be such that they will have the power of locomotion at will from place to place?

In the clouds - Greek, "in clouds" - ἐν νεφέλαις en nephelais - without the article. This may mean "in clouds;" that is, in such numbers, and in such grouping as to resemble clouds. So it is rendered by Macknight, Koppe, Rosenmuller, Bush (Anasta. 266), and others. The absence of the article here would rather seem to demand this interpretation Still, however, the other interpretation may be true, that it means that they will be caught up into the region of the clouds, or to the clouds which shall accompany the Lord Jesus on his return to our world. Matthew 24:30; Matthew 26:64; Mark 16:19; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7; compare Daniel 7:13. In whichever sense it is understood, the expression is one of great sublimity, and the scene will be immensely grand. Some doctrine of this kind was held by the ancient Jews. Thus rabbi Nathan (Midras Tillin, 48:13) says, "What has been done before will be done again. As he led the Israelites from Egypt in the clouds of heaven, so will he do to them in the future time."

To meet the Lord in the air - In the regions of the atmosphere - above the earth. It would seem from this, that the Lord Jesus, in his coming, would not descend to the earth, but would remain at a distance from it in the air, where the great transactions of the judgment will occur. It is, indeed, nowhere said that the transactions of the judgment will occur upon the earth. The world would not be spacious enough to contain all the assembled living and dead, and hence the throne of judgment will be fixed in the ample space above it.

And so shall we ever be with the Lord - This does not mean that they will always remain with him in the air - for their final home will be heaven - and after the trial they will accompany him to the realms of glory; Matthew 25:34, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom," etc. The time during which they will remain with him "in the air" is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. It will be as long as will be necessary for the purposes of judging a world and deciding the eternal doom of every individual "according to the deeds done in the body." There is no reason to suppose that this will be accomplished in a single day of twenty-four hours; but it is impossible to form and conjecture of the period which will be occupied.

Americans, including Glenn Beck, like to think that the entire planet revolves around the USA.
It doesn't.
Neither does Biblical prophesy.

If one wishes to properly exegete Biblical prophecies of the end times then one needs to remember one central fact;

Israel is the focal point for all prophecy.

There have been a great many terrible errors made by those who base their assumptions on anything else.

Logical errors in interpretation, such as millenialism, dispensationalism, the rapture cult, etc., are based upon ancient Christian anti-semitic attitudes, which have been carried forward into our present time. It is only racism with a new polish. It is high time for the church to reconsider its errors in prophetic interpretation as well as the attitudes upon which they are founded.

Remember that from the time of the founding of the church until the end of WWII, a span of over nineteen hundred years, the church has been anti-semitic.

Most modern theories have logical problems because of the Jew. What shall be done with the Jew and how can the ideology flow unless they are somehow erased from consideration. As a result, we wind up with odd explanations such as 'the rapture' or strange entities like 'spiritual Israel'.

A case in point is the ideology that the church, which was never mentioned in prophecy, is the focus of most or all the actions and interactions of the last days INSTEAD OF ISRAEL.

Proponents of these heinous theories stand hand in hand with jihadist extremists in expecting and calling for ANOTHER Jewish holocaust during a period of time called 'the Great Tribulation'. They are as theologically incorrect as they are morally indecent.

In case the reader has been off the planet for the last sixty years or so, it is Israel that has been repeatedly attacked and Jerusalem, not Washington DC, which has been surrounded by enemies who want to exterminate every Jew in sight.

The fact is that there is Jewish blood on the ground in Israel and that every Muslim country on earth wants to see more. The fact is that Jesus has promised to return TO SAVE ISRAEL.
The only fantasy is that the church will be beamed out early to enjoy pie in the sky while Jerusalem burns.
People who believe this rubbish are either terribly naive, brain dead or are Jew hating mujahideen.

It is time for the church to stand with the Jew in expectation of the imminent arrival of OUR collective Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and not seek by fantasy, theory or deed to abandon them.