Anti Christ

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

TLHKAJ

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
6,973
8,499
113
US
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Because God's word is truth because it is God's word. Taking our experience and going to God's word and searching for affirmation is dangerous because we can justify anything by taking the scriptures out of context. That doesn't mean the experience isn't real, taking such a stand would be heartlessness in the extreme. But taking that experience and attempting to interpret the scriptures by that experience is fraught with difficulty.
Then I guess you can't correlate your salvation experience (you have one, right??) with anything the scriptures say? Suppose that would be dangerous....
 

Jostler

Well-Known Member
Oct 23, 2020
807
1,255
93
God's green earth
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Revelation 22:10-14 NKJV — And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. “He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Then I guess you can't correlate your salvation experience (you have one, right??) with anything the scriptures say? Suppose that would be dangerous....
I replied to another thread dealing with similar issues... The identity of Antichrist, false prophet etc. I think that what I said there, apply equally to this thread.
So. I haven't read every post in this thread, mainly because we've all been here before, and I don't really expect anything different. My apologies if someone has come up with some common sense exegesis.
KJV 2 Peter 1:19-21
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

We've all read the above before, but what does it mean exactly? It means that prophecy isn't guesswork. It isn't clairvoyance. It isn't to be understood by our imagining what this or that means... What this symbol should or should not be.
The greatest threat immediately prior to the greatest event ever to be experienced by man, the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and the greatest delusion in the form of the counterfeit trinity, the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet, by which the whole world is to be deceived, isn't something God has hidden, or left us to guess as to what this threat is.
Yet these threads on the end times, on the nature of the great apostasy, the identity of the main players, and the timing of these events, are full of meandering seamless nonsensical unbiblical guesswork.
Guys. People. The Bible interprets itself. It is not up to us to interpret prophecy. God loves us too much to leave such important matters to our frail sin infected imaginations.
Now. Is there anyone, please, who would like to start again? Using scripture to interpret scripture.
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
I think the Trinity functions as one. It isn't possession. Just Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus being God in flesh.

I think antichrist would have something like an unholy thing... devil, spirit of antichrist, man with spirit of the antichrist:

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."
1 John 4:1‭-‬3 NASB1995

Again , as I can't seem to explain , let me try again . satan is a person and that person will come to this earth for all to see .
satan has his own body , meaning he will need to possess no one.

him and his angels are coming to this earth live and in color and the whole world will believe him to be Christ
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brakelite

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Again , as I can't seem to explain , let me try again . satan is a person and that person will come to this earth for all to see .
satan has his own body , meaning he will need to possess no one.

him and his angels are coming to this earth live and in color and the whole world will believe him to be Christ
I agree. And only those thoroughly conversant with scripture will be able to discern this counterfeit, so compelling, so astounding, so convincing will it be.
But this appearing in person by the arch deceiver is not the Antichrist spoken of in scripture. The Antichrist is another kettle of fish altogether, an entity designed and inspired by Satan certainly, his alter ego and his representative, and also a counterfeit of Christ, and a persecuter of God's people and purveyor of false doctrine, sitting in the church (God's temple) pretending to have the attributes of deity. And many are deceived, yes, are deceived, by him.
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
I agree. And only those thoroughly conversant with scripture will be able to discern this counterfeit, so compelling, so astounding, so convincing will it be.
But this appearing in person by the arch deceiver is not the Antichrist spoken of in scripture. The Antichrist is another kettle of fish altogether, an entity designed and inspired by Satan certainly, his alter ego and his representative, and also a counterfeit of Christ, and a persecuter of God's people and purveyor of false doctrine, sitting in the church (God's temple) pretending to have the attributes of deity. And many are deceived, yes, are deceived, by him.

I gotcha ,however I hope to show your wrong ,will start with the word itself (unintentional pun) Anti in the Greek

.. Bible Strong's Greek 473 473. anti Strong's Concordance anti: over against, opposite, hence instead of, in comp. denotes contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence Original Word: ἀντί Part of Speech: Preposition Transliteration: anti ..

satan is also the son of perdition ,perdition means one that perishes , only satan by name has already been sentenced to death, ie , the lake of fire , his angels, all 7000 will die the instant Christ feet touch the ground ,but they are not named.

satan right here right now is in Heaven accusing the saints

Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power [authority] of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

Is that some man possessed in Heaven ? No it's satan himself ,and if we zoom back up you should see his coming

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"


Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

This is the time of the sounding of the fifth trumpet, when Satan and his fallen angels are released upon the earth for the final five months period, spoken of in Revelation 9:5, 10. Satan will spend five months here on earth deceiving all mankind, then go to the pit for the thousand years. After that thousand years, Satan [not his fallen angels] will be released for a short period, then go to perdition [perish]. Once Satan is kicked out of heaven, he will not be allowed to return. Today Satan is in heaven accusing the saints before the Lord.

This is prophesy that will come in the very near future.

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

If you were ever confused who Satan is, John calls him by the names he used while playing his different roles on earth. The "dragon" is Satan's role in that first earth age, when one third of all of God's children followed him. Satan's evil spirit is allowed on earth now, along with his demons. However, you haven't seen Satan in person yet. Satan and his angels, both physically and bodily, will come to earth just as they did in Genesis 6.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I gotcha ,however I hope to show your wrong ,will start with the word itself (unintentional pun) Anti in the Greek

.. Bible Strong's Greek 473 473. anti Strong's Concordance anti: over against, opposite, hence instead of, in comp. denotes contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence Original Word: ἀντί Part of Speech: Preposition Transliteration: anti ..

satan is also the son of perdition ,perdition means one that perishes , only satan by name has already been sentenced to death, ie , the lake of fire , his angels, all 7000 will die the instant Christ feet touch the ground ,but they are not named.

satan right here right now is in Heaven accusing the saints

Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power [authority] of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

Is that some man possessed in Heaven ? No it's satan himself ,and if we zoom back up you should see his coming

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"


Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

This is the time of the sounding of the fifth trumpet, when Satan and his fallen angels are released upon the earth for the final five months period, spoken of in Revelation 9:5, 10. Satan will spend five months here on earth deceiving all mankind, then go to the pit for the thousand years. After that thousand years, Satan [not his fallen angels] will be released for a short period, then go to perdition [perish]. Once Satan is kicked out of heaven, he will not be allowed to return. Today Satan is in heaven accusing the saints before the Lord.

This is prophesy that will come in the very near future.

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

If you were ever confused who Satan is, John calls him by the names he used while playing his different roles on earth. The "dragon" is Satan's role in that first earth age, when one third of all of God's children followed him. Satan's evil spirit is allowed on earth now, along with his demons. However, you haven't seen Satan in person yet. Satan and his angels, both physically and bodily, will come to earth just as they did in Genesis 6.
Three quick points, which I will attempt to get back and explain more fully when I have time.
First, I don't accept that Satan still has access to heaven. His accusations and claims to a place there fell flatter than roadkill after Calvary.
Second, the Antichrist is indeed "in place of Christ", or "instead of Christ", and was prophesied to sit in the temple of God, proclaiming himself as God. This temple cannot be in heaven, that would be laughable to think Satan is there counterfeiting God. It cannot be some future literal temple in Jerusalem because such would not be God's, and
thirdly, and most clearly of all,
There are specific characteristics from Daniel, Thessalonians, Revelation and elsewhere, that pinpoint the identity of the Antichrist beyond all dispute and which cannot be accurately applied to Satan himself.
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
Three quick points, which I will attempt to get back and explain more fully when I have time.
First, I don't accept that Satan still has access to heaven. His accusations and claims to a place there fell flatter than roadkill after Calvary.
Second, the Antichrist is indeed "in place of Christ", or "instead of Christ", and was prophesied to sit in the temple of God, proclaiming himself as God. This temple cannot be in heaven, that would be laughable to think Satan is there counterfeiting God. It cannot be some future literal temple in Jerusalem because such would not be God's, and
thirdly, and most clearly of all,
There are specific characteristics from Daniel, Thessalonians, Revelation and elsewhere, that pinpoint the identity of the Antichrist beyond all dispute and which cannot be accurately applied to Satan himself.

First ,thanks for a civil discussion and looking forward to your next response ,in the meantime I reply to the above.

Question ,where is satan now ,just gave verses to where I see him . He has yet to be cast out yet ,that's why Heaven rejoices , when he is kicked out.

No the temple that he sit's in ,of course it's not in Heaven ,he ,satan will sit on the side of the north

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Where is the above , do you not see that nation of Israel building that temple ,like right here ,right now ?

satan has many names .

My question to you is where in scripture do you see satan possessing a man (not talking about evil spirits that Christ sent out)?

In other words where is satan while he's possessing the man ,and are you saying he will never be seen ?

Who is the dude in the pit

Isaiah 14:16 "They that see thee shall shall narrowly look upon the, and consider thee, saying. "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"

Is the above a man possessed ?
 

Daniel Veler

Active Member
Apr 17, 2021
485
164
43
Gulf port
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There have been anti-christs in the apostles days. They have always been here. An anti-christ is what it means. Someone against Christ. I know your referring to the man of sin who will appear just before Christ returns. But he is not an anti-christ but one who will proclaim to be Christ. He is the False Christ. Lean the difference between the two. Just as the Christ said my Father and I are one and the Pharisees accused him as proclaiming to be God. Which Christ only said my Father and I are one. The man of sin will proclaim himself as God. Study the difference between an anti-christ verses the man of Sin.
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
There have been anti-christs in the apostles days. They have always been here. An anti-christ is what it means. Someone against Christ. I know your referring to the man of sin who will appear just before Christ returns. But he is not an anti-christ but one who will proclaim to be Christ. He is the False Christ. Lean the difference between the two. Just as the Christ said my Father and I are one and the Pharisees accused him as proclaiming to be God. Which Christ only said my Father and I are one. The man of sin will proclaim himself as God. Study the difference between an anti-christ verses the man of Sin.

Anti in the Greek means instead of in the context of scripture , not against

Strong's Greek: 473. ἀντί (anti) -- over against, opposite ...
https://biblehub.com/greek/473.htm
anti: over against, opposite, hence instead of, in comp. denotes contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence Original Word: ἀντί Part of Speech: Preposition

The man of sin is the anti christ whom is satan himself also called the son of perdition , among many other names ,learn the differences
 

Daniel Veler

Active Member
Apr 17, 2021
485
164
43
Gulf port
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Anti in the Greek means instead of in the context of scripture , not against

Strong's Greek: 473. ἀντί (anti) -- over against, opposite ...
https://biblehub.com/greek/473.htm
anti: over against, opposite, hence instead of, in comp. denotes contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence Original Word: ἀντί Part of Speech: Preposition

The man of sin is the anti christ whom is satan himself also called the son of perdition , among many other names ,learn the differences
You will learn if the Lord permits that as Christ said that a false Christ will appear just before his return. A false Christ is someone who proclaims to be Christ. Your play an words mean nothing. It just shows that you see things through the eyes of human reasoning and not through the eyes of the HS. You need to learn the difference between an anti-christ and the false-christ. They are not the same.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The Leopard Stirs…
First ,thanks for a civil discussion and looking forward to your next response ,in the meantime I reply to the above.

Question ,where is satan now ,just gave verses to where I see him . He has yet to be cast out yet ,that's why Heaven rejoices , when he is kicked out.

No the temple that he sit's in ,of course it's not in Heaven ,he ,satan will sit on the side of the north

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Where is the above , do you not see that nation of Israel building that temple ,like right here ,right now ?

satan has many names .

My question to you is where in scripture do you see satan possessing a man (not talking about evil spirits that Christ sent out)?

In other words where is satan while he's possessing the man ,and are you saying he will never be seen ?

Who is the dude in the pit

Isaiah 14:16 "They that see thee shall shall narrowly look upon the, and consider thee, saying. "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"

Is the above a man possessed ?
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Very imaginative. And none of it scriptural. Remember, scripture interprets scripture. You ignore Daniel, which provides the blueprint for Revelation. And being futurist you have ignored 2000 years of church and secular history wherein is found a great deal of prophetic fulfillment which sets the scenario for these last days. And blinds you too the identity of the Antichrist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Daniel Veler

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
Very imaginative. And none of it scriptural. Remember, scripture interprets scripture. You ignore Daniel, which provides the blueprint for Revelation. And being futurist you have ignored 2000 years of church and secular history wherein is found a great deal of prophetic fulfillment which sets the scenario for these last days. And blinds you too the identity of the Antichrist.

How many names does satan go by ?he goes by many and anti Christ is one of them ,far from blind.

What part of Daniel may I ask did I ignore?
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
How many names does satan go by ?he goes by many and anti Christ is one of them ,far from blind.

What part of Daniel may I ask did I ignore?
I can see that you've done a great deal of work in studying and presenting your understanding of prophecy. The presentation especially is to be commended.
On my blog that you've been referred to, in comparison to yours is merely prose, and the presentation side negligible. So I would ask that you grant me a little grace in that respect. That said, I believe what I've posted in the following link gives an excellent perspective of prophecy from the historicist hermeneutic, which has been the traditional means by which to understand prophecy, particularly during the reformation.
Enjoy.
Daniel; Part One.

By the way. If you're interested, parts 2 through 10 offer a great more detail into the history and goings on if all those powers involved.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Question ,where is satan now ,just gave verses to where I see him . He has yet to be cast out yet ,that's why Heaven rejoices , when he is kicked out.
KJV Revelation 12:4
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The dragon here is indeed Satan, but he didn't appear personally, but acted through his agent. In this case his agent was Herod, who sought the child's life. I agree that Satan had limited access to heaven prior to Calvary, but for rather complicated reasons related to the character of God and Lucifer's accusations against Him prior to his being cast out, it wasn't until Calvary that those doubts and questions reusing to God's character were irrevocably answered. God is love. His government is just. His laws are fair. And Lucifer's lies and arguments for rebellion refuted. Thus Calvary was all that was required to justly give Satan no further access to accuse anyone before God's throne.
Satan since that time had been on the earth directing his efforts against God's people.
KJV Revelation 12:12-17
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

In the above scripture, there is a simple interpretation. The dragon, Satan, persecuted the woman... The church. The church went into the wilderness for 1260 years, from the time of the rise of the Papacy (the first beast of Revelation 13, the Antichrist) to the late 18th century. Those true churches suffered terribly over those centuries, but was given respite toward the end of that time when America became a safe Haven for the persecuted churches of Europe. This was the earth helping the woman. The United States is the second beast of Revelation 13, that looks like a lamb but speaks as the dragon. The time is soon coming when the US will adopt the practices of the Roman church, forming a union of church (protestant) and state, and persecuting God's people... That remnant who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.

Where is the above , do you not see that nation of Israel building that temple ,like right here ,right now ?
No. What Jewish temple in the future could ever be described as God's temple? Whatever they build, if they build, will be a disgrace and a blasphemy against their own Messiah.
In other words where is satan while he's possessing the man ,and are you saying he will never be seen ?
He will one day be seen, yes. In the meantime he uses agencies to attack God's people... Throughout history this has been the case. From Babylon through every succeeding kingdom, right to the present day. Prophecy details every one, clearly identifying them, describing their character, their timeline, all in beautiful chronological order. In symbols and in literal history, God has shown who our enemy is, and what our role in withstanding him ought to be.
Is the above a man possessed ?
No. It is Satan in person.
 
  • Like
Reactions: quietthinker

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
I can see that you've done a great deal of work in studying and presenting your understanding of prophecy. The presentation especially is to be commended.
On my blog that you've been referred to, in comparison to yours is merely prose, and the presentation side negligible. So I would ask that you grant me a little grace in that respect. That said, I believe what I've posted in the following link gives an excellent perspective of prophecy from the historicist hermeneutic, which has been the traditional means by which to understand prophecy, particularly during the reformation.
Enjoy.
Daniel; Part One.

By the way. If you're interested, parts 2 through 10 offer a great more detail into the history and goings on if all those powers involved.

Thanks for the link

Everything or should I say the majority of scripture is written for those of whom the end shall come , I see the history ,yet understand that it shall happen again