JW's, SDA's, Unitarians and Mormons

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ReChoired

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SDA's that I have come across over the years on multiple Christian forum sites believe the Roman Catholic church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.
Where would they ever get that idea? :rolleyes:

Latin:


"... Similiter et feriae a fando dicuntur, ob quam causam Silvester papa primus apud Romanos constituit ut dierum nomina quae antea secundum nomina deorum suorum vocabant, id est, Solis, Lunae, Martis, Mercurii, Veneris, Saturni, feria deinceps vocarent, id est, prima feria, secunda feria, tertia feria, quarta feria, quinta feria, sexta feria, quia in principio Genesis scriptum est quod Deus per singulos dies dixerit : prima, Fiat Lux; secunda, Fiat firmamentum; tertia, Producat terra herbam virentem, similiter, etc. Sabbatum autem antiquo legis vocabulo vocare praecepit, et primam feriam diem Dominicam, eo quod Dominus in illa resurrexit. Statuit autem idem papa ut otium sabbati magis in diem Dominicam transferretur, ut ea die a terrenis operibus ad laudandum Deum vacaremus, justa illud quod scriptum est : Vacate et videte, quoniam ego sum Deus (Psal. XLV). ..." - Beati Rabani Mauri, Fuldensis Abbatis et Moguntini Archiepiscopi, de Clericorum Institutione, ad Heistulphum Archiepiscopum; Libri Tres. (Anno 819.) Ad Fratres Fuldenses Epigramma Ejusdem; Liber Secundus, Caput XLVI. Column 361 (Left; PDF page 35) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....eistulphum_Archiepiscopum_Libri_Tres,_MLT.pdf

Translated English:

"... Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he [Sylvester] ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day [Sunday], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 ..." - http://biblelight.net/sylvester-I.htm

Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia:

“...yet we find St. Cæsarius of Arles in the sixth century teaching that the holy Doctors of the Church had decreed that the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred to the Sunday, and that Christians must keep the Sunday holy in the same way as the Jews had been commanded to keep holy the Sabbath Day. … From the eight century the law began to be formulated as it exists at the present day, and the local councils forbade servile work, public buying and selling, pleading in the law courts, and the public and solemn taking of oaths. There is a large body of civil legislation on the Sunday rest side by side with the ecclesiastical. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Sunday] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sunday
Council of Trent:

“...But the Church of God has in her wisdom ordained that the celebration of the Sabbath should be transferred to “the Lord's day:” …” [The Catechism of the Council of Trent; On The Third Commandment; pg 267] - The catechism of the Council of Trent : Catholic Church : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Philip Melanchthon on Daniel 7:25 -

"... But what meaneth the aungell to saye: He shall s•arle or destroye ye hyghe sayn∣tis? verely els but that with his false doctryne capciouse othes articles / & in∣terrogacions he shall fraudelently de∣ceyue and trappe the simple innocents and shed their blode tyrannously. Also he shall arrogantly take vpon him & thin∣ke to change the state of tymes and la∣wes. He weneth to change ye tyme which with swerde and fyer thinketh to shorten the lyfe of man and to preuent and disa∣point gods infallible eternall and immu∣table prouidēce wherby he hath prefiyed euery manis tyme & houre of deth which as noman can differre or prolong it / so cā∣ne noman shorten nor preuent it / except men will make God an ignorant persone and so consequently no god at all. He chā∣geth the tymes and lawes that any of the [page 118-119] sixe worke dayes commanded of god will make them vnholy and idle dayes when he lyste / or of their owne holy dayes abo∣lisshed / make* worke dayes agen / & when they changed ye Saterday into Sondaye / of eting dayes fasting dayes / of mery and glad dayes to marye in / they can make so∣rowfull dayes forbiddinge maryages. They haue changed gods lawes and tur∣ned them into their owne tradiciōs to be kept aboue Gods preceptis. And as for their owne lawes they will change & bre∣ke them when they lyste. And this powr shal anticrist haue whether it be for long or shorte tyme. For so miche sowneth the Hebrew phrase / which is for a tyme / a lyt∣le whyle / & half a tyme / signifyinge that Anticryst shall make lawes to stande as long and as shorte tyme as he listeth and the tymes will he order / sett and change at his owne plesur. But is it not onely ye office of god to chang tymes and lawes? Here is therfore the prophecye fulfylled of him. Euen to exalt himselfe aboue all thing that god is called. This text. But the hyghe saynts he shall tangle trappe & destroye and arrogantly thinke to chan∣ge the tymes and lawes &c. is of diuerse lerned men diuersely translated. ..." - The exposicion of Daniel the prophete gathered oute of Philip Melanchton, Iohan Ecolampadius, Chonrade Pellicane [and] out of Iohan Draconite. [et] c. By George Ioye. A prophecye diligently to be noted of al emprowrs [and] kinges in these laste dayes
 

Addy

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I am Seventh-day Adventist.
I think there is a lot of confusion over Seventh Day Adventist... Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... and Mormon.

If someone believes that JESUS is GOD ... they are a Christian. If someone's religion teaches them that Jesus is just a prophet or an angel.. or just a good man.... they are not a Christian... That is not a judgement but simply the definition of a Christian.
 

Mungo

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Post #17 & 21 are IMO typical SDA posts - flood a post with links and quotes instead of a thoughtful scripture based argument.
 
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amadeus

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This may be too vague and complicated but I think it would be interesting to know the differences in these cults. Any info appreciated!
What is cult?

You use the word as if everyone should know what you mean!
 
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Mungo

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SDA's that I have come across over the years on multiple Christian forum sites believe the Roman Catholic church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. The Christian Forums site is crawling with SDA's.

The normal charge is that the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday contrary to the 3rd Commandment (or 4th depending on how you number them). That's not quite the same as this quote from Pope John Paul II shows

We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi! (Apostolic Letter, Dies Domini, Pope John Paul II, 1998 – para 18).

And from the Catechism of The Catholic Church para 2175
Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath
 

amadeus

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Well... that was a very interesting article... @Mungo ... I have used this word... and probably mis-used this word.
To me... the definition of a cult ( as I know it )... is any religious organization that professes to have a spiritual leader who is NOT Jesus Christ. ( someone who professes to be God... or the enlightened one ).

That comment will get me in hot water but I am not going to argue... I am not one to study the different religions of the world... and by the state of these "Christian " forums... we have our own mess to clean up... So much bickering and back-biting... Rather unattractive.
The result everywhere, including on this forum, is a whole lot of miscommunication or a lack of communication. Then again if we all do speak the same language but do not also speak with God, the result could be another Tower of Babel...

Are there any Towers of Babel around us today?

For communication's sake on this thread I am equating Babel with confusion. Is that what happened in Genesis 11 that so displeased God?

s
 
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MatthewG

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All I know the solution is the truth of the Good News Gospel of Christ Jesus and teaching about what is said from the biblical perspective taking into account what is said in the Word of God pertaining to every facet of the life giving Words that come by reading slowly, and digesting everything being said in it. The only solution in this world today is always going to be the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone (teaching what is the truth; along with worshiping in spirit and in truth).
 

Addy

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The result everywhere, including on this forum, is a whole lot of miscommunication or a lack of communication. Then again if we all do speak the same language but do not also speak with God, the result could be another Tower of Babel...
Yes... you are correct... Add to that pride and arrogance and you have a toxic mixture.
 
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amadeus

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Hi my dear dear friend...
Sweet kisses to your precious heart... and Happy Saturday to you.
Thank you dear sister. I hope God does not smite my heart for engaging with people here. But... He is a good God no matter what, is He not?
 
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Addy

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We are called to make the world JEALOUS with our LOVE... JOY... PEACE... COMPASSION... TENDERNESS and PATIENCE.

You are good to go... and in good company with Christ by your side.
 

mailmandan

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The normal charge is that the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday contrary to the 3rd Commandment (or 4th depending on how you number them). That's not quite the same as this quote from Pope John Paul II shows

We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi! (Apostolic Letter, Dies Domini, Pope John Paul II, 1998 – para 18).

And from the Catechism of The Catholic Church para 2175
Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath
It sounds like your argument is with ReChoired and not with me.
 

Brakelite

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SDA's that I have come across over the years on multiple Christian forum sites believe the Roman Catholic church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.
If the Catholic Church didn't change the day, who did? I haven't seen any evidence of anyone else taking credit for such an act.
The Catholic Church does claim to have accomplished that feat. Has anyone else stood up and attempted to deny the Catholic Church her day in the sun?
 

dev553344

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I think there is a lot of confusion over Seventh Day Adventist... Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... and Mormon.

If someone believes that JESUS is GOD ... they are a Christian. If someone's religion teaches them that Jesus is just a prophet or an angel.. or just a good man.... they are not a Christian... That is not a judgement but simply the definition of a Christian.

Hi Addy. I've been considering whether to be Mormon or Catholic. I'm a little confused about my religion and I'm looking for the true church. I believe in prophecy and revelation and all the gifts of the spirit. Why did I consider being mormon: I feel a strong good spirit when watching Mormon proceedings. And they teach a lot of false doctrine in my beliefs. I also was affected by the mormon church and served in their church for 10 years. My belongings and family were given away (with the help of my ex wife) when I became disabled and couldn't pay tithes or be the sole provider in my marriage. I was working though, just not at full capacity. Once bit twice shy I guess, so I never really went back. But the experience taught me that they have a lot of false doctrine that they teach and demand their members to say it's true.

But my main concern with the Mormon religion is that they think they will be equal with God some day. And I see this written of in scripture as Lucifer's church perhaps. But I'm not sure:

Isaiah 14:12-14

King James Version

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Maybe I'm just rambling about things that I know better about now. So I'm still looking for a church. I go to Catholic Mass. And I see Jesus there too. But it has a different spirit there and not enough of the Holy Spirit for me.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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I think there is a lot of confusion over Seventh Day Adventist... Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... and Mormon.

If someone believes that JESUS is GOD ... they are a Christian. If someone's religion teaches them that Jesus is just a prophet or an angel.. or just a good man.... they are not a Christian... That is not a judgement but simply the definition of a Christian.
Note: SDA and "Mormons" 100% believe that Jesus Christ is God.
 

Jane_Doe22

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This may be too vague and complicated but I think it would be interesting to know the differences in these cults. Any info appreciated!
"Cult" is not a productive word.

They are all different belief systems (like Catholics, Orthodox, various Protestant sects, etc). If you want to learn about each, it's best to spend individual time with each one, just like you would with Catholic, Orthodox, etc.
 

Addy

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YEP... I commented on this thread without doing my research... In all honesty... I am happy where I am and have no desire to follow any religious sect. Just give me JESUS... LOL
 
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April_Rose

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Note: SDA and "Mormons" 100% believe that Jesus Christ is God.




I know and to be honest seeing this topic made me upset. I don't fit into any of those beliefs, but it seems like the OP is bashing them to me. Which has to be against the rules of this website and just lacks compassion in my mind.
 

Addy

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@Devin Wintch ... I read your honest post... I am one who has come out of and walked away from the Catholic Church...
After my mother died...( she was a devout Catholic )... I went to the priest who held her funeral service and told him
that I desire to be set free from the Catholic church... I ex-communicated myself... LOL ... The priest was gracious and
he blessed me... It was the beginning of FREEDOM for me... there is a lot of abuse in many organized religions... as you
probably have heard... here in Canada... the Catholic church is dealing with the fall-out of many missing and dead children
from the Residential schools... The pope has refused to apologize... It's all EVIL... all of it... ( my little thoughts )...

I have not read enough about the Mormons to give you advice... but to my understanding .... there is fault to their theology... serious fault.
I do NOT desire to get into a discussion about other religions...

My advice to you would be to simply PRAY and ask God to guide you to a bible believing fellowship... they are far and few between but they are out there. Blessings on you.... Tenderly... Addy
 
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Jane_Doe22

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<Actual Latter Day Saint (aka "Mormon") here >

I think that those are the guys that have strict dietary observances... I get mixed up between SDA and LDS... ( Latter Day Saints ).
Both SDA and LDS Christians have dietary restrictions. I don't recall the SDA ones too well off the top of my head. For LDS Christians, it's a promise to God to abstain from smoking/alcohol/coffee/tea and trying to take good care of your body.

I know and to be honest seeing this topic made me upset. I don't fit into any of those beliefs, but it seems like the OP is bashing them to me. Which has to be against the rules of this website and just lacks compassion in my mind.
I'm not going to comment on the OP themself and their intentions-- I don't remotely know enough about them to do so.

However, in my experience majority of "anti cult" resources are focused on bashing rather than trying to understand people and focus on Christ.
But my main concern with the Mormon religion is that they think they will be equal with God some day.
Clarification on this: a disciple of Christ becomes one with Him and a joint-heir (see John 17 and Romans 8:17). This is ultimate discipleship (following). They do NOT replace God or surpass Him (as Lucifer aimed to do).
 
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