Obeying Government

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JunChosen

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There are no hooks here to infer that Christ was also present, 'living' before he was born. Why add that in when the scripture I quoted says nothing of the sort. If you can find scripture that does say what you believe then I have not seen it yet.

What about, John 17:5 where it reads:

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

To God Be The Glory
 

Marc RL Ministry

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Show me a Government that walks with Jesus Christ, That honors the two greatest commandments, a Nation with no rich or poor without corruption that abides in Jesus Christ teachings and isn't hungry for power but all equal from first to last THEN I will follow them.

I will not follow rich people who are in sheep's clothing but worship power and money and are wolves I built my house upon the rock and will stand by it. The bibles doctrine regarding submitting to Government is false doctrine it does not line up with what Jesus Christ and his disciple did.

We are told to discern all things and to be as wise a serpents and harmless as doves not gullible and blind, The bible says ALL NATIONS will rise against God's people and to be faithful till the end not to blindly follow Worldly Government.
 

JunChosen

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The verses you quote is a consequence of God's Judgment on Israel.

Lol "What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?"

FYI the current topic we are discussing on this thread is about government and NOT the judgment on Israel as you have falsely interpreted Jeremiah 27 to be, rather it is a punishment on ANY nation that will NOT obey the King of Babylon, as in Romans 13:

1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

To God Be The Glory
 

quietthinker

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we can see from the various replies here that a percentage are positioned to be snitches when and if a time comes where Government policy conflicts with God's Commandments.
 

Wrangler

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FYI the current topic we are discussing on this thread is about government and NOT the judgment on Israel as you have falsely interpreted Jeremiah 27 to be

False? No. You are confounding God's Judgment against Israel in Jer 27 with this thread's topic to obey government.

Another verse that supports Franklin's quip is Jesus' famous 'give unto Caesar what is Caesar's' because our liberty is God given and us abdicating what God gave us is not a burden we will suffer.
 

FHII

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Christians I come across in general tend to use the scripture of Paul in Romans 13 that we must obey Government in regards to our churches being closed and being locked up at home in lockdowns and taking these vaccines etc.

My question is what will those of you who hold to this doctrine as truth do when ALL NATIONS command that we worship satan and take his mark?
Romans 13 is NOT about obeying earthly governments. There are verses about obeying them, but Romans 13 is about obeying God's government, which involves following his called and chosen ministers.

Not Caesar. Not a the king and not the President or Prime Minister of a country.
 
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TheslightestID

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Well, I believe that we are supposed to obey government laws unless those laws violate God's laws.

I believe abortion violates God's laws. What should a Christian do, if anything, to shut down abortion clinics?

Yes, it violates the "Shalt not Kill" law, and we should fight abortion tooth and nail, but we just can't go into the clinics, guns blazing.

IMO, God protects the rights of evil people in this case, just as he protects the rights of the homosexual. They will pay for their murders if God sees it as such. Due to free will, plus the fact some evil people insist on aborting babies, God has allowed it in spite of the terrible thing abortion is, and has made it legal so there is order in what would otherwise be a chaotic situation. The government is actually only allowing, and making orderly, what the people want.....the governments job. Hope all that makes sense.

Fortunately, God has made picketing the clinics legal as well, and also fortunately, there are good people fighting it daily.
 
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Michael1985

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Christians I come across in general tend to use the scripture of Paul in Romans 13 that we must obey Government in regards to our churches being closed and being locked up at home in lockdowns and taking these vaccines etc.

My question is what will those of you who hold to this doctrine as truth do when ALL NATIONS command that we worship satan and take his mark?

What a wonderful straw man you have there. :rolleyes:
 
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K9Buck

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Another verse that supports Franklin's quip is Jesus' famous 'give unto Caesar what is Caesar's' because our liberty is God given and us abdicating what God gave us is not a burden we will suffer.

Did Jesus advocate that his followers engage in politics and work to change the governing authorities?
 
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K9Buck

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Romans 13 is NOT about obeying earthly governments. There are verses about obeying them, but Romans 13 is about obeying God's government, which involves following his called and chosen ministers.

Not Caesar. Not a the king and not the President or Prime Minister of a country.

That's an interesting take and you may be correct. However, what did Jesus say?
 

TheslightestID

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Romans 13 is NOT about obeying earthly governments. There are verses about obeying them, but Romans 13 is about obeying God's government, which involves following his called and chosen ministers

You are twisting clear scripture to mean something it does not. It states right in several bible versions, the scripture it is referring to Government.
 

quietthinker

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Can you elaborate?
God's governance ie, his character, what he is like and how his reality operates is questioned by the opposition, even warred against. We see this revealed in Jesus' life circumstances.

As things wind up this battle will increase in intensity between those who are God's people and those who are not.

The 'world' has its own agenda; one not built on righteousness. Moves in line with the world's agenda are well underway under the banner of unity, peace and prosperity but they speak with forked tongue. The reality is about consolidating power over the powerless. It is about making the majority heal to those who insist they know......it will bring about a similarity envisaged in George Orwell's book 1984.
 
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FHII

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That's an interesting take and you may be correct. However, what did Jesus say?
Well, he said quite a bit. On gov't he spoke about paying taxes, true. And as I said there are other verses about obeying gov't. My point is that Romans 13 isn't one of them.
 

FHII

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You are twisting clear scripture to mean something it does not. It states right in several bible versions, the scripture it is referring to Government.
I looked at a few other versions and while some of the do mention "governing authorities", I see nothing that indicates its a political government. The question is does a Church have a government? The answer is yes, and it was defined and set up by Paul. It may be a far cry from what most Churches have today, but I believe that is what is being discussed in this particular chapter. Since I auspect you will be asking, the gov't of the Church is defined in 1 Cor 12:28 and Eph 4:11.

The KJV calls these governing officials "the minister of God". Other versions call them God's Servants. Either way, I see no reason to believe that's talking about a king, Caesar, Governor, President or PM. If you want to go through a list of some infamous country leaders, you will have a hard time defending the position that they are God's ministers or servant. Heck, the world leader at the time Paul wrote this was a pagan and did not acknowledge Jesus or Jehovah. The gov't at the time killed many right standing Christians, so no... I don't believe Paul was talking about a political government.

What did Jesus say? Well, he said his kingdom was not of this world... So why would the gov't of Romans 13 be?

Do I believe in following gov't? Yes, as long as they don't try to hinder my relationship with God.