The Only True God, the God of Jesus Christ.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Curtis

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2021
3,268
1,573
113
70
KC
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John 1:1 does not even have Jesus in it. You are desperately creating a Strawman to knock it down. John 1:1 is about God and his word, not Jesus.

The climax of John's prologue is John 1:18 (Voice) God, unseen until now, is revealed in the Voice, God’s only Son, straight from the Father’s heart. A simple and real grasp of this sentence is that Jesus is not God because God, in his unitarian nature, was revealed in the VOICE of God's Son.

Of course John 1:1 has Jesus in it, because of John 1:10 and 14

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh dwelt and among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So, tell us, who was IN the world, and was MANIFEST IN THR FLESH and dwelt among us?

Jesus. So the word being Jesus IS in John 1:1

And verse 14 says THE WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Gee, that term, made in the flesh, kinda sounds familiar:

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
 
Last edited:

Curtis

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2021
3,268
1,573
113
70
KC
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John 1:1 does not even have Jesus in it. You are desperately creating a Strawman to knock it down. John 1:1 is about God and his word, not Jesus.

The climax of John's prologue is John 1:18 (Voice) God, unseen until now, is revealed in the Voice, God’s only Son, straight from the Father’s heart. A simple and real grasp of this sentence is that Jesus is not God because God, in his unitarian nature, was revealed in the VOICE of God's Son.

No, it says the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Gods voice wasn’t born of a virgin. Jesus was.,

Let’s see if your claim makes sense:”

In the beginning was the voice of God and the voice of God was WITH God and WAS God

Nope.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
8,844
9,582
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, it says the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Gods voice wasn’t born of a virgin. Jesus was.,

Let’s see if your claim makes sense:”

In the beginning was the voice of God and the voice of God was WITH God and WAS God

Nope.
Curtis, not to barge in from the side with a left or something, but can you tell me how a person who is with someone else, also be the very same person as that someone he/she is with or beside? Yes, it is a logic reasoning question. Is it possible?

APAK
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John 1:1 does not even have Jesus in it. You are desperately creating a Strawman to knock it down. John 1:1 is about God and his word, not Jesus.

The climax of John's prologue is John 1:18 (Voice) God, unseen until now, is revealed in the Voice, God’s only Son, straight from the Father’s heart. A simple and real grasp of this sentence is that Jesus is not God because God, in his unitarian nature, was revealed in the VOICE of God's Son.
"John 1:1 does not even have Jesus in it. You are desperately creating a Strawman to knock it down. John 1:1 is about God and his word, not Jesus."

Another new add on of unbelief.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)"

"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

That ain't the Father riding down to earth on a white horse, and it isn't the Father's blood on the vesture: It's the Son's, Jesus Christ, the Word and Lamb of God come down out of heaven in the flesh...immortal flesh by uncorrupted blood by eternal Life of the Son and true God therein.

So, there's another guy here arguing with another of you guys, but I'm not sure what ya'll are. So far, I know them that believe the word was created as the 1st angel of the LORD. But now we have someone that doesn't believe Christ existed until He was created and born into the world...
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,541
409
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
These scripture verses speak nothing about Christ, or him existing before his first existence of his human birth around 2000 years ago. And let alone creating the earth and 'all things.' You have not taken this scripture seriously and must have a predefined agenda to save or promote.
Why do you assume that I've not taken the verses seriously? That's insulting!

How about if I also include Ephesians 3:9 (WEB):
and to make all men see what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things through Jesus Christ;​

(although it seems that some older manuscripts, and therefore some modern translation, don't have "through Jesus Christ").

You had written:
Besides Yahshua, we as believers are also chosen by the LORD, before the earth was created, to be in his Kingdom. And we never existed before we were born either.​
implying that Jesus did not exist before he was born as a human. However, Jesus said:

John 8:58 (ASV): Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.​

or in other words, 'I existed before Abraham was born'. He also said:

John 6:38) For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me.
John 3:13) No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.​

which both imply he was alive and living in heaven before he came down from heaven and was born as a human. So does Philippians 2 (WEB):

5) Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus,
6) who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7) but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross.​
 
Last edited:

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
12,999
4,799
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So, there's another guy here arguing with another of you guys, but I'm not sure what ya'll are.

Trinitarian rejectors is what we are.

The Gospel of John is about how God resurrected his anointed one. This is why Jesus, the resurrected Jesus, was talking about going to his God in 20:17.

God. Father. LORD. Synonyms.

Jesus. Son of God. Anointed by God. Synonyms.

Father’s create sons. The son is not the Father.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
8,844
9,582
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why do you assume that I've not taken the verses seriously? That's insulting!

How about if I also include Ephesians 3:9 (WEB):
and to make all men see what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things through Jesus Christ;​

(although it seems that some older manuscripts, and therefore some modern translation, don't have "through Jesus Christ").

You had written:
Besides Yahshua, we as believers are also chosen by the LORD, before the earth was created, to be in his Kingdom. And we never existed before we were born either.​
implying that Jesus did not exist before he was born as a human. However, Jesus said:

John 8:58 (ASV): Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.​

or in other words, 'I existed before Abraham was born'. He also said:

John 6:38) For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me.
John 3:13) No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.​

which both imply he was alive and living in heaven before he came down from heaven and was born as a human. So does Philippians 2 (WEB):

5) Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus,
6) who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7) but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross.​
Insulting aye. Get back with me when you can respond to my post and its contents instead of diverting my attention to new scripture (that I can also easily handle) as you have done here. It's a common ploy and tactic you have used, and it does not work on me.
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,541
409
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Get back with me when you can respond to my post and its contents instead of diverting my attention to new scripture (that I can also easily handle) as you have done here. It's a common ploy and tactic you have used, and it does not work on me.
Err, hang on a minute! I made a comment that I didn't agree with your statement that Jesus did not exist before the earth was created, and I quoted a couple of verses to support why I disagreed. Your reply to that also included references to other verses (Eph 2:15, Acts 2:33,38, 2Cor 5:17, Gal 6:16, Eph 4:24, Rev 1:1, Rom 12:4-8 and Eph 4:7-11), so why do you object to me replying with a few more verses to support my point?

I was not employing any tactics, I was simply trying to quote Scripture to explain why I disagree with you and why I believe what I believe. Perhaps the words of Jesus himself, during a prayer to God, will be more convincing, John 17:5 (WEB):

"Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed."​
 

Curtis

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2021
3,268
1,573
113
70
KC
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Trinitarians wish that were true. John 1:1 is about the Word of God, not Jesus, fulfilling his promises as explained in Luke's writing in Acts 3:17.

Not until v 10 & 14 is Jesus is mentioned. The Messiah is anointed by God but is not God.

Some people are so incredibly biased to what they WANT to be true, that they can’t even use the rules of grammar.

The subject of all of John 1 is THE WORD, and establishes without a doubt that THE WORD is Jesus, when it unequivocally states that THE WORD created all things including the world, and that THE WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us - that is Jesus who was made flesh, and then dwelt among us, and there’s no reasonable way of denying that clear fact.
Curtis, not to barge in from the side with a left or something, but can you tell me how a person who is with someone else, also be the very same person as that someone he/she is with or beside? Yes, it is a logic reasoning question. Is it possible?

APAK

You do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God, for it is written, with God all things are possible.

If I knew how it was possible for God to manifest as three persons, I’d be God.

I don’t have to understand it, but do have to accept it, when Philippians 2:6-7 says Jesus existed in the form of God - morphe theos - before He voluntarily emptied Himself to take the form of a man and humble servant:

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


The plural nature of God is clearly shown in the Hebrew Scriptures, and some ancient rabbis have acknowledged that in the Zohar - such as the word for God in Genesis 1, which literally means GODS in Hebrew, and the plural form of God said let US, make man in OUR image.

Genesis 1 doesn’t say that the singular name of God said let ME make man in MY image

Elohim, Hebrew Dictionary:

H430 (Strong)

אֱלֹהִים

'ĕlôhı̂ym

el-o-heem'

Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

Total KJV occurrences: 2601

Who created the heavens and the earth? God.

Who made the world, including every single thing without exception, then was manifest in the flesh and was born into the world that He made?

Jesus.

John 1:1, 10, 14

Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
8,844
9,582
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Err, hang on a minute! I made a comment that I didn't agree with your statement that Jesus did not exist before the earth was created, and I quoted a couple of verses to support why I disagreed. Your reply to that also included references to other verses (Eph 2:15, Acts 2:33,38, 2Cor 5:17, Gal 6:16, Eph 4:24, Rev 1:1, Rom 12:4-8 and Eph 4:7-11), so why do you object to me replying with a few more verses to support my point?

I was not employing any tactics, I was simply trying to quote Scripture to explain why I disagree with you and why I believe what I believe. Perhaps the words of Jesus himself, during a prayer to God, will be more convincing, John 17:5 (WEB):

"Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed."​
Yes, you now want to impress upon me that Yahshua lived before his birth because you see a phrase in John 17:5 that seems to strongly suggest this is true. And so you think it is a literal phrase and not an idiom? It is the latter I'm afraid. Yahshua existed in the mind of YHWH before creation, in YHWH's word.

When in 2 Timothy 1:9 it says that each Christian was given grace 'before the beginning of time,' no one tries to prove that we were actually alive with God back then. Everyone acknowledges that we were 'in the mind of God,' i.e., in God’s foreknowledge. The same is true of Yahshua. His glory was 'with the Father' before the world began, and in John 17:5 he prayed that it would come to fruition. He was a man with weakness and in mental and even physical anguish at the time of his prayer. He was reminding his Father, that he could not wait for his glory as it was planned for him before time zero. His glory of resurrection from the dead, ascension into immortality. This was all planned by YHWH. alone with Yahshua in mind.

In the OT it spoke of this glory planned for Yahshua which had been in the mind of God, the Father, since before the world began.

It was not Yahshua who was with his Father from before creation at all.

Here's something else to think about. If a man as Yahshua 'remembered' being in glory with the Father before the world began, then he would have known he was also God in every sense. Your logic fails just based on this premise.

No, the glory was to come in Yahshua's near future, to immortality as the first born of his kind.

And there's more...

Yahshua would not have thought of himself as a 'man' at all. If he knew he was God, he would not and could not have been 'tempted in every way just as we are' because nothing he encountered would have been a 'real' temptation to him. He would have had no fear and no thought of failure. There is no real sense in which Scripture could actually say he was 'made like his brothers in every way' (Heb. 2:17) because he would not have been like us at all. Furthermore, Scripture says that Yahshua 'grew' in knowledge and wisdom. That would not really be true if Christ had access to some type of God-nature with infinite knowledge and wisdom with his supposed past.

Scripture says that Christ can 'sympathize with our weakness' because he was 'tempted in every way, just as we are' (Heb. 4:15)

And lastly, Yahshua's prayer in John 17 sets a wonderful example for us as Christians. He poured out his heart to his Father, 'the only true God' (John 17:3), and prayed that the prophecies of the Old Testament about him would be fulfilled...in his own glory.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
8,844
9,582
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Curtis

Can you still find some time to answer my previous query to you of today.

Here it is again...the exact words

"Curtis, not to barge in from the side with a left or something, but can you tell me how a person who is with someone else, also be the very same person as that someone he/she is with or beside? Yes, it is a logic reasoning question. Is it possible?"

thanks..APAK
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wrangler

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
8,844
9,582
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Some people are so incredibly biased to what they WANT to be true, that they can’t even use the rules of grammar.

The subject of all of John 1 is THE WORD, and establishes without a doubt that THE WORD is Jesus, when it unequivocally states that THE WORD created all things including the world, and that THE WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us - that is Jesus who was made flesh, and then dwelt among us, and there’s no reasonable way of denying that clear fact.


You do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God, for it is written, with God all things are possible.

If I knew how it was possible for God to manifest as three persons, I’d be God.

I don’t have to understand it, but do have to accept it, when Philippians 2:6-7 says Jesus existed in the form of God - morphe theos - before He voluntarily emptied Himself to take the form of a man and humble servant:

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


The plural nature of God is clearly shown in the Hebrew Scriptures, and some ancient rabbis have acknowledged that in the Zohar - such as the word for God in Genesis 1, which literally means GODS in Hebrew, and the plural form of God said let US, make man in OUR image.

Genesis 1 doesn’t say that the singular name of God said let ME make man in MY image

Elohim, Hebrew Dictionary:

H430 (Strong)

אֱלֹהִים

'ĕlôhı̂ym

el-o-heem'

Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

Total KJV occurrences: 2601

Who created the heavens and the earth? God.

Who made the world, including every single thing without exception, then was manifest in the flesh and was born into the world that He made?

Jesus.

John 1:1, 10, 14

Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Before you go running your fingers over the keyboard in all directions again, as I see you have here, can you first reply to my last post to you.

And is what you just wrote as a headline statement, about you then, when you said, "Some people are so incredibly biased to what they WANT to be true, that they can’t even use the rules of grammar."?

Do you have the foggiest idea what you are conveying here, especially if it is for my mental absorption?

Again..

"Curtis, not to barge in from the side with a left or something, but can you tell me how a person who is with someone else, also be the very same person as that someone he/she is with or beside? Yes, it is a logic reasoning question. Is it possible?"

It should be an easy question to answer.

You are not trying to avoid my simple question are you?
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
John 20:28

"1 In the beginning was the Word, (Christ) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:1

Zechariah 12:10
"10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

In Zech. Yahweh, the "LORD" is speaking of Jesus

Psalm 22:16
"16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet."

Has to be none other than Christ here...?

"O LORD (Yahweh), our Lord (Adonai), how majestic is your Name in all the earth!" Psalm 8:1 & 9.

Peter writes "our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ" in 2 Peter 1:1

Paul calls Jesus "The great God and Saviour" in Titus 2:13

Lot's more I found but, it's long enough...okay then, I'm ready for the attacks!!!!! :D

 

Curtis

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2021
3,268
1,573
113
70
KC
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, you now want to impress upon me that Yahshua lived before his birth because you see a phrase in John 17:5 that seems to strongly suggest this is true. And so you think it is a literal phrase and not an idiom? It is the latter I'm afraid. Yahshua existed in the mind of YHWH before creation, in YHWH's word.

When in 2 Timothy 1:9 it says that each Christian was given grace 'before the beginning of time,' no one tries to prove that we were actually alive with God back then. Everyone acknowledges that we were 'in the mind of God,' i.e., in God’s foreknowledge. The same is true of Yahshua. His glory was 'with the Father' before the world began, and in John 17:5 he prayed that it would come to fruition. He was a man with weakness and in mental and even physical anguish at the time of his prayer. He was reminding his Father, that he could not wait for his glory as it was planned for him before time zero. His glory of resurrection from the dead, ascension into immortality. This was all planned by YHWH. alone with Yahshua in mind.

In the OT it spoke of this glory planned for Yahshua which had been in the mind of God, the Father, since before the world began.

It was not Yahshua who was with his Father from before creation at all.

Here's something else to think about. If a man as Yahshua 'remembered' being in glory with the Father before the world began, then he would have known he was also God in every sense. Your logic fails just based on this premise.

No, the glory was to come in Yahshua's near future, to immortality as the first born of his kind.

And there's more...

Yahshua would not have thought of himself as a 'man' at all. If he knew he was God, he would not and could not have been 'tempted in every way just as we are' because nothing he encountered would have been a 'real' temptation to him. He would have had no fear and no thought of failure. There is no real sense in which Scripture could actually say he was 'made like his brothers in every way' (Heb. 2:17) because he would not have been like us at all. Furthermore, Scripture says that Yahshua 'grew' in knowledge and wisdom. That would not really be true if Christ had access to some type of God-nature with infinite knowledge and wisdom with his supposed past.

Scripture says that Christ can 'sympathize with our weakness' because he was 'tempted in every way, just as we are' (Heb. 4:15)

And lastly, Yahshua's prayer in John 17 sets a wonderful example for us as Christians. He poured out his heart to his Father, 'the only true God' (John 17:3), and prayed that the prophecies of the Old Testament about him would be fulfilled...in his own glory.

Jesus existed in the form of God before He took the form of a man. Philippians 2:6-8.

Jesus existed before Abraham did: John 8:58

Jesus existed when Moses was in the desert with Israel: 1 Corinthians 10:4

Jesus existed before all things were made, meaning before creation, because HE MADE ALL THINGS. and is BEFORE ALL THINGS: Colossians 1:16-17

And yes, John 17:5 says Jesus had, and shared, past tense, glory with the Father - there’s no reasonable way of interpreting that any other way.

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Jesus knew He’s God, but since His chosen mission was to become a man and die for our sins as a humble servant, He had no reason to constantly proclaim His divinity - nevertheless He clearly called Himself the “I AM” who existed before Abraham, and after He was asked to show them the father, said He who has seen me, has SEEN the father.

And Jesus was tempted on his mother’s side due to her fallen nature, but was able to resist all temptation on His father’s side. Not a hard concept to understand.

And unlike the apostles and angels, who IMMEDIATELY stopped worship of themselves, saying worship GOD ONLY, Jesus did not stop Thomas when he fell on his knees and declared Jesus: my lord, and my God, nor stop the apostles when they fell at His feet and worshipped Him - thus Jesus was either divine, and knew it, or sinned by accepting worship of Himself.

Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
12,999
4,799
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The subject of all of John 1 is THE WORD, and establishes without a doubt that THE WORD is Jesus, when it unequivocally states that THE WORD created all things including the world, and that THE WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us - that is Jesus who was made flesh

Desperate interpretation. The word of God was made flesh - not God made incarnate. The words of God were put in a man as prophesied in Deuteronomy 18:15-18. We know this because beings are not words.
 

Curtis

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2021
3,268
1,573
113
70
KC
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Curtis

Can you still find some time to answer my previous query to you of today.

Here it is again...the exact words

"Curtis, not to barge in from the side with a left or something, but can you tell me how a person who is with someone else, also be the very same person as that someone he/she is with or beside? Yes, it is a logic reasoning question. Is it possible?"

thanks..APAK

I explained that. I can’t explain how Go$ spoke the universe into existence, but I don’t have to understand it, just believe scripture- nor understand how the Godhead has three persons, just believe it because scripture says it.

The word was WITH God, yet the word WAS GOD. God was with god, in the beginning of creation.

Jesus as God transcends time, and showed up in the Old Testament many times, such as Genesis 18, where it says YHWH, no, it doesn’t say an angel of YHWH: it says YHWH appears as one of three men.

Abraham washes His feet, then has a discussion with Him about sparing Sosom from destruction.

After negotiations failed and God destroyed Sodom, we have another example of God existing asv two persons.

Jehovah on the EARTH in the form of a man, who. Abraham walked and talked with, rained down destruction from Jehovah IN HEAVEN:

ASV:

Gen 19:24 Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven;
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
12,999
4,799
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don’t have to understand it, but do have to accept it, when Philippians 2:6-7 says Jesus existed in the form of God

More proof that Jesus is NOT God. If I have a ceramic doll in the form of a dolphin, one thing you know is the ceramic doll is NOT a dolphin. The same with the man Jesus being in the form of that which he is not; namely God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.