The Only True God, the God of Jesus Christ.

Wrangler · Jun 13, 2021

Curtis said:
Who made the world, including every single thing without exception, then was manifest in the flesh and was born into the world that He made?

Words are what's not who's. Trinitarians have to confuse basic Definition. Logic. Language Usage. to support their doctrine.

If you really want to study the Greek, compare John 1:1 what to the what word is hard in John 6:60. Beings are who. Words are what.

Curtis · Jun 13, 2021

APAK said:
Before you go running your fingers over the keyboard in all directions again, as I see you have here, can you first reply to my last post to you.

And is what you just wrote as a headline statement, about you then, when you said, "Some people are so incredibly biased to what they WANT to be true, that they can’t even use the rules of grammar."?

Do you have the foggiest idea what you are conveying here, especially if it is for my mental absorption?

Again..

"Curtis, not to barge in from the side with a left or something, but can you tell me how a person who is with someone else, also be the very same person as that someone he/she is with or beside? Yes, it is a logic reasoning question. Is it possible?"

It should be an easy question to answer.

You are not trying to avoid my simple question are you?

Ill just leave you to your little loophole construct, where you insist that nothing is proven unless I can understand how the Almighty God can exist as two persons - instead of using scripture that proves that God does.

I can’t explain how the Holy Spirit can live in a person either - so by your reasoning, posting scripture that proves He does, is irrelevant, because I can’t explain HOW.

Paul wrote that Christ indwelling believers is a MYSTERY, so he can’t explain how it’s possible - thus according to your illogic, the fact that Jesus does so, is irrelevant and unproven until HOW is explained.

Wrangler · Jun 13, 2021

APAK said:
"Curtis, not to barge in from the side with a left or something, but can you tell me how a person who is with someone else, also be the very same person as that someone he/she is with or beside? Yes, it is a logic reasoning question. Is it possible?"

Curtis said:
I explained that.

No, curtis. The question does not require an explanation but a simple, Yes or No.

I imagine your jumping right to 'explanation' is the same way of thinking that allows your brain to side step the many passages that state Jesus is sitting or standing at the right hand of God, in his unitarian nature.

Curtis · Jun 13, 2021

Wrangler said:
More proof that Jesus is NOT God. If I have a ceramic doll in the form of a dolphin, one thing you know is the ceramic doll is NOT a dolphin. The same with the man Jesus being in the form of that which he is not; namely God.

Okay - using your logic, Jesus wasn’t A MAN either, because after He left THE FORM of God, He took THE FORM of a man!

Since Jesus wasn’t a man, please tell us what He was.

Curtis · Jun 13, 2021

Wrangler said:
No, curtis. The question does not require an explanation but a simple, Yes or No.

I imagine your jumping right to 'explanation' is the same way of thinking that allows your brain to side step the many passages that state Jesus is sitting or standing at the right hand of God, in his unitarian nature.

Not playing your game, sorry.

If you ever want a real conversation, let me know,

Wrangler · Jun 13, 2021

Curtis said:
Okay - using your logic, Jesus wasn’t A MAN either, because after He left THE FORM of God, He took THE FORM of a man!

You are desperate. There is simply no passage in Scripture that explicitly teaches the trinity or that Jesus is God. On top of this, Scripture says repeatedly that Jesus was a man. This should be recognized as different than this man being in the form of something else. Let me put this in a simple, yes or no question.

Do you recognize the difference between Person A being something from Person A being merely in the form of another thing? Yes or No.

Wrangler · Jun 13, 2021

Curtis said:
Since Jesus wasn’t a man, please tell us what He was.

???

Jesus was and is a man. What kind of implied premise is there in this question?

Wrangler · Jun 13, 2021

Curtis said:
Not playing your game, sorry.

If you ever want a real conversation, let me know,

The game is grasping how to apply

Definition
Logic
Language Usage

I can understand why you don't want to 'play' as these foundations of grasping things don't aid your doctrine but rather exploit it as the inherent contradiction it is, like square circles.

Just one example. There are numerous verses in Scripture that says God (in his unitarian nature) raised Jesus from the dead. It is nonsense to conclude "God" and "Jesus" in these sentences are the same being.

APAK · Jun 13, 2021

@Curtis you knew why I asked that question of you 3x, because it shows even if logos (word) could ever be a person and it cannot, John 1:2 then does not make any sense at all. One being with the other cannot be the same as the other, right....
No, logos by established precedence in the common Greek language can only mean a a type of communication or expression, and in this case LOGOS = THE (MIND and VOICE) WORD of YHWH.

And if anyone believes in Yahshua and has the opportunity to be a child of God as it says in my own words of John 1:12-13 then most definitely as in John 1:14, the word or the mind and voice of YHWH had to become the word or mind and voice of Yahshua, the man and his Son. For this, the word became flesh....And that is why Yahshua had to be spotless and sinless to become our redeemer and Savior to execute YHWH's plan of redemption and salvation. YHWH and Yahshua had to be of one mind and spirit although from different minds and spirits. One is divine and the other human. Divinity had to be WITH the Son to execute his Father's plan. Not that the Son was divine. And Yahshua yielded his human spirit throughout his mission...to become the mind and voice of his Father - the logos or word of God.

Blessings,

APAK

Wrangler · Jun 13, 2021

APAK said:
Yahshua

Yeshua, not Yashua, I believe.

APAK · Jun 13, 2021

Wrangler said:
Yeshua, not Yashua, I believe.

Yes I've been asked the same before. I prefer Yah-shua because 'Yah' is the contracted name of YHWH and Yah means saves or delivers. My preference. The other version was the basis for Yeh-ov(w)ah that is not really the name of God at all. That began when Jewish scribes added in vowels from the Hebrew title of God, Adonai to never say the personal name ..YHWH....

Marvelloustime · Jun 14, 2021

Nancy said:
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
John 20:28

"1 In the beginning was the Word, (Christ) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:1

Zechariah 12:10
"10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

In Zech. Yahweh, the "LORD" is speaking of Jesus

Psalm 22:16
"16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet."

Has to be none other than Christ here...?

"O LORD (Yahweh), our Lord (Adonai), how majestic is your Name in all the earth!" Psalm 8:1 & 9.

Peter writes "our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ" in 2 Peter 1:1

Paul calls Jesus "The great God and Saviour" in Titus 2:13

Lot's more I found but, it's long enough...okay then, I'm ready for the attacks!!!!!

Wonderful scriptures sister.
Yes. One God. Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son, who is the biblical Lord Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to be saved and have eternal life.
We need to get back to our bibles and keep grounded in scripture.
Praise the Lord.
Sister is loved.

keithr · Jun 14, 2021

APAK said:
Yes, you now want to impress upon me that Yahshua lived before his birth because you see a phrase in John 17:5 that seems to strongly suggest this is true. And so you think it is a literal phrase and not an idiom? It is the latter I'm afraid. Yahshua existed in the mind of YHWH before creation, in YHWH's word.

All verses of Scripture will be in harmony if we interpret them in the correct way, and may not harmonise if we interpret them incorrectly. So John 17:5, along with the other verses I mentioned, indicate that Jesus was alive long before his human birth, especially John 8:

56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57) Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Consider also Hebrews 1 (WEB):

1) God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2) has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.
3) His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, who, when he had by himself purified us of our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4) having become so much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have.
5) For to which of the angels did he say at any time, “You are my Son. Today I have become your father?”and again, “I will be to him a Father, and he will be to me a Son?”
6) When he again brings in the firstborn into the world he says, “Let all the angels of God worship him.”
7) Of the angels he says, “Who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire.”
8) But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your Kingdom.
9) You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.”
10) And, “You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands.

Here's something else to think about. If a man as Yahshua 'remembered' being in glory with the Father before the world began, then he would have known he was also God in every sense. Your logic fails just based on this premise.

I think your logic has failed in this case! Being with God doesn't mean you are God, no more than the disciples being with Jesus meant that they were all Jesus. As you said in another post:

"but can you tell me how a person who is with someone else, [can] also be the very same person as that someone he/she is with or beside? Yes, it is a logic reasoning question. Is it possible?"

APAK · Jun 14, 2021

keithr said:
All verses of Scripture will be in harmony if we interpret them in the correct way, and may not harmonise if we interpret them incorrectly. So John 17:5, along with the other verses I mentioned, indicate that Jesus was alive long before his human birth, especially John 8:

56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57) Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Consider also Hebrews 1 (WEB):

1) God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2) has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.
3) His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, who, when he had by himself purified us of our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4) having become so much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have.
5) For to which of the angels did he say at any time, “You are my Son. Today I have become your father?”and again, “I will be to him a Father, and he will be to me a Son?”
6) When he again brings in the firstborn into the world he says, “Let all the angels of God worship him.”
7) Of the angels he says, “Who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire.”
8) But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your Kingdom.
9) You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.”
10) And, “You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands.

I think your logic has failed in this case! Being with God doesn't mean you are God, no more than the disciples being with Jesus meant that they were all Jesus. As you said in another post:

"but can you tell me how a person who is with someone else, [can] also be the very same person as that someone he/she is with or beside? Yes, it is a logic reasoning question. Is it possible?"

I see my previous post to Curtis caught your eye. I knew it would. Got you thinking about it a bit?

And you said to it : "I think your logic has failed in this case! Being with God doesn't mean you are God, no more than the disciples being with Jesus meant that they were all Jesus. "

So you finally admit that if the 'Word' was Yashua and it is definitely not, then Yahshua with God as in John 1:2 cannot be God the Father Almighty, or Yahshua is not equal to God. Good job Keithr! Finally, the truth comes to light in your eyes. I wish others would take off their religious lens and actually see scripture for what it truly means.

And for the rest of your Post, I will not respond as I've been doing COMMENTARIES of your scripture as my rebuttals, you have done really none that can be called a commentary. I'm doing all the work, again. As in this last post of yours, you just list scripture as your rebuttal to me as if you expect me to have powers of telepathy to understand and see your so-called 'harmonization of scripture.' I cannot mind-read your thoughts on the subject. And also, if I would respond again in length, here, it would take me several pages to answer them. I do not like doing things halfway when it comes to scripture revelation.

And now you speak of your harmonizing of scripture. I wonder if you are only giving lip service only. I have not seen any at all. I have not seen any harmonization of scripture from you to date'.

Happy Trails and good day

APAK

robert derrick · Jun 14, 2021

Wrangler said:
Trinitarian rejectors is what we are.

The Gospel of John is about how God resurrected his anointed one. This is why Jesus, the resurrected Jesus, was talking about going to his God in 20:17.

God. Father. LORD. Synonyms.

Jesus. Son of God. Anointed by God. Synonyms.

Father’s create sons. The son is not the Father.

No, you are not Trinitarian rejecters. the 'Oneness' believers are Trinitarian rejecters, who believe Jesus is God the Son and the Father.

You reject Jesus as Lord and God. You refuse to acknowledge God the Son.

And if you are correct about Him being created, then you have not likewise rejected the Father. If you are not correct, as I firmly believe, then you reject also the Father.

robert derrick · Jun 14, 2021

APAK said:
I see my previous post to Curtis caught your eye. I knew it would. Got you thinking about it a bit?

And you said to it : "I think your logic has failed in this case! Being with God doesn't mean you are God, no more than the disciples being with Jesus meant that they were all Jesus. "

So you finally admit that if the 'Word' was Yashua and it is definitely not, then Yahshua with God as in John 1:2 cannot be God the Father Almighty, or Yahshua is not equal to God. Good job Keithr! Finally, the truth comes to light in your eyes. I wish others would take off their religious lens and actually see scripture for what it truly means.

And for the rest of your Post, I will not respond as I've been doing COMMENTARIES of your scripture as my rebuttals, you have done really none that can be called a commentary. I'm doing all the work, again. As in this last post of yours, you just list scripture as your rebuttal to me as if you expect me to have powers of telepathy to understand and see your so-called 'harmonization of scripture.' I cannot mind-read your thoughts on the subject. And also, if I would respond again in length, here, it would take me several pages to answer them. I do not like doing things halfway when it comes to scripture revelation.

And now you speak of your harmonizing of scripture. I wonder if you are only giving lip service only. I have not seen any at all. I have not seen any harmonization of scripture from you to date'.

Happy Trails and good day

APAK

They believe the word was created as the 1st angel of the LORD way back when, and that the 'Word was God" is only symbolic.

But for Christ being before He became a man:

"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." (1 Cor 10)

robert derrick · Jun 14, 2021

Nancy said:
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
John 20:28

"1 In the beginning was the Word, (Christ) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:1

Zechariah 12:10
"10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

In Zech. Yahweh, the "LORD" is speaking of Jesus

Psalm 22:16
"16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet."

Has to be none other than Christ here...?

"O LORD (Yahweh), our Lord (Adonai), how majestic is your Name in all the earth!" Psalm 8:1 & 9.

Peter writes "our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ" in 2 Peter 1:1

Paul calls Jesus "The great God and Saviour" in Titus 2:13

Lot's more I found but, it's long enough...okay then, I'm ready for the attacks!!!!!

Ally, not foe:

"And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name." (Isaiah 62)

"She shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS." (Matthew 1:21)

Scripture of the mouth of the LORD spoken by the angel of the Lord, naming His new name: Jesus.

Jehovah was a new name for God Almighty, and Jesus is His new name for ever above all His other names.

robert derrick · Jun 14, 2021

There is only One Saviour that does the work of salvation for mankind:

"Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me." (Hosea 13)

The Saviour to come would be named by the mouth of the LORD Himself as His new name:

"And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name." (Isaiah 62)

The Scripture from the LORD by His angel names His new name:

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1)

And the Jewish believers confessed Jesus to be that Saviour prophesied, and knew Who the only Saviour could ever be was the LORD:

"For we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world." (John 4)

There is One LORD and Saviour of the world, Who saves His people from their sins by His blood shed on the cross. God the Son Jesus Christ.

Not God the Father, Who remained in heaven, while His Son was upon the earth.

Wrangler · Jun 14, 2021

robert derrick said:
If you are not correct, as I firmly believe, then you reject also the Father.

LOL You are totally illogical. I only accept God, in his unitarian nature, as our Heavenly Father. Somehow, you interpret this to mean the exact opposite.

robert derrick said:
You reject Jesus as Lord

Untrue. I accept Jesus as my lord and his Father and his God as my God, Father and LORD.

Wrangler · Jun 14, 2021

robert derrick said:
You refuse to acknowledge God the Son.

Because there is no such creature! Scripture tells us God the Father many times. Never does Scripture tell us God the Son. Scripture tells us Jesus is the Son of God.

Elvis of Memphis is not equal to Memphis of Elvis. And certainly Elvis is not equal to Memphis.

I only acknowledge reality and the reality is; the trinity is not in the Bible.

The Only True God, the God of Jesus Christ.

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