Biggest mistake of the church and we need to go back

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atpollard

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Likely you believe the Christian faith is the people of God as I do sir, but there currently are over 37,000 sects that claim to be the faith. Acts 20:29,30 fulfilled. At some point in time, they disagreed with the congregation, and formed their own evolving to the divisions we see today nearly 2000 yrs later. It is even escalating At, 30 yrs ago there was only around 10,000 different sects.

We have a small town near me that had a church who divided and those who left formed a congregation right across the street, and both were called Church of the Brethren, kinda comical in a way.
I have survived two church splits in my life.

In the first, the pastor gradually grew to believe that the miracles in the bible were allegorical rather than historical and are intended to teach us how to live "good lives". His long time relationship with the Elder Board made consensus to remove him impossible, and his views made it impossible to stay in good conscience. It was a "split" by slow attrition over about a year as 3/4 of the elder board stepped down and half the congregation left for other churches. [A boon for several young pastors just trying to build a church in the county]

The second involved a pastor that had an affair, divorced his wife, married his mistress and refused to step down. I was not a member of that church, but the denomination that owned the building sided with the pastor over the members so about 80% of the members left and about half of them rented a building and advertised for a new pastor apart from the old denomination. I attended the new church (post split).

Would you force those people together?
Would you be the one to decide who is damned and expel them?
I do not believe that splits happen lightly.
Are you prepared to submit to the Authority of the Eastern/Oriental Orthodox Church (the only church not to split off)?
 
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amigo de christo

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I have survived two church splits in my life.

In the first, the pastor gradually grew to believe that the miracles in the bible were allegorical rather than historical and are intended to teach us how to live "good lives". His long time relationship with the Elder Board made consensus to remove him impossible, and his views made it impossible to stay in good conscience. It was a "split" by slow attrition over about a year as 3/4 of the elder board stepped down and half the congregation left for other churches. [A boon for several young pastors just trying to build a church in the county]

The second involved a pastor that had an affair, divorced his wife, married his mistress and refused to step down. I was not a member of that church, but the denomination that owned the building sided with the pastor over the members so about 80% of the members left and about half of them rented a building and advertised for a new pastor apart from the old denomination. I attended the new church (post split).

Would you force those people together?
Would you be the one to decide who is damned and expel them?
I do not believe that splits happen lightly.
Are you prepared to submit to the Authority of the Eastern/Oriental Orthodox Church (the only church not to split off)?
Nor would paul. At times we must split . If the leadership is leading the church in the wrong direction
and refuses correction , I say FLEE and take as many with you . Its not safe to stay in a church where leaven is allowed to grow .
 
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amigo de christo

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You are confusing those who left the faith being the followers rather than the corrupt leaders.
Any church whose leaders teach error , that church is doomed to follow suit if they stay under that leadership .
Cause a lil leaven will in time certainly leaven the entire lump .
The way they set up some churches , its doomed to failure . Cause if specially a leader teaches error
and one cannot get him to repent , but rather he is allowed to stay , those who sit under him will in time
fall away . Paul even told timothy to flee men who teach contrary to Christ , who wont consent to the wholesome words of Christ .
The problem with most churches , was they left off teaching sound doctrine and correcting . And that is a total recipe
for disaster .
 
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amigo de christo

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Too many pastors misintepret what it means to HOLD the KEYS . CORRECTION .
But they too busy trying to hold the keys of a new bently . This generation is in grave danger .
I call for an all out return to the original JESUS TAUGHT , APOSTLE TAUGHT , BIBLICAL PATTERN .
WE MUST , before its too late .
 

Robert Gwin

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I have survived two church splits in my life.

In the first, the pastor gradually grew to believe that the miracles in the bible were allegorical rather than historical and are intended to teach us how to live "good lives". His long time relationship with the Elder Board made consensus to remove him impossible, and his views made it impossible to stay in good conscience. It was a "split" by slow attrition over about a year as 3/4 of the elder board stepped down and half the congregation left for other churches. [A boon for several young pastors just trying to build a church in the county]

The second involved a pastor that had an affair, divorced his wife, married his mistress and refused to step down. I was not a member of that church, but the denomination that owned the building sided with the pastor over the members so about 80% of the members left and about half of them rented a building and advertised for a new pastor apart from the old denomination. I attended the new church (post split).

Would you force those people together?
Would you be the one to decide who is damned and expel them?
I do not believe that splits happen lightly.
Are you prepared to submit to the Authority of the Eastern/Oriental Orthodox Church (the only church not to split off)?


The Bible identifies the true faith sir, of course each of us must determine which faith that is, it is quite easy, here are 10 ways to identify it beyond any reasonable doubt. Does your faith meet all these qualifying identifiers?:

One faith Eph 4:5

1. The one faith would worship the God Jehovah exclusively. (Matthew 4:10) Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to Him alone you must render sacred service.’” (It was written at Deut 6:13).

2. The one faith will not participate in war. Paul stated: (2 Corinthians 10:3) . . .For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. . .

3. The one faith approaches Jehovah through Jesus, Paul said:
(1 Timothy 2:5) . . .For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus. . .Jesus said: (John 14:6) . . .Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. . .

4. Jesus said the one faith would be known by the love of its adherents:
(John 13:34, 35) . . .I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves. . .
It’s adherents would imitate Jesus,
Peter said: (1 Peter 2:21) . . .to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely. . .

5. The one faith will preach the good news of the Kingdom of God, as mankind’s only hope, not a worldly government, Jesus stated:
(John 18:36) . . .“My Kingdom is no part of this world. . . .
He told us to: (Matthew 6:33) 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you.
Jesus stated the main reason he came to earth: (Luke 4:43) . . .“I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent.”
He assigned his followers to: (Matthew 28:19) . . .Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,. . ., 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.

6. The one faith accepts the Bible as the inspired message of God, Paul said:
(2 Timothy 3:16) . . .All Scripture is inspired of God. . .

7. The one faith would appear to be formed in the last days, it’s adherents would be highly educated through instruction, and would live the teachings in their lives: Isaiah wrote: (Isaiah 2:2, 3) . . .In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established . . .And to it all the nations will stream. 3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.

8. The one faith would not set men on high, with religious titles, Jesus said: (Matthew 23:8-10) 8 But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.

9. The one faith does not allow unrepentant sinners to remain among them,
Paul stated: (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) . . .I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. . .“Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”

10. The one faith does not practice interfaith with other “Christian” faiths. All teach the same thing, and have the same line of thought: (2 Cor 6:14) For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?
(Phil 2:2) make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind.
(1 Corinthians 1:10) Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.
Jesus said: (John 17:20) . . .“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word. . .in order that they may be one just as we are one.

I hope this helps you sir, and I understand why you left, but keep this in mind, like you mentioned with the first split, you judge a faith by it's teachings, not by the sins of others like the second example.
 

Robert Gwin

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You are confusing those who left the faith being the followers rather than the corrupt leaders.

See? I knew you couldn't sir. The fact is any who leave God's people are simply that, they left and are no longer part of the Christian congregation.
 

atpollard

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2. The one faith will not participate in war. Paul stated: (2 Corinthians 10:3) . . .For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. . .
While I have not waged war as a Christian for personal reasons, this rule seems to have taken the verse out of context.

(I have no serious disagreement with any of the others, just some minor questions on how some would work in practice. Not worth discussing.)
 

atpollard

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The Bible identifies the true faith sir, of course each of us must determine which faith that is, it is quite easy, here are 10 ways to identify it beyond any reasonable doubt. Does your faith meet all these qualifying identifiers?:

One faith Eph 4:5

1. The one faith would worship the God Jehovah exclusively. (Matthew 4:10) Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to Him alone you must render sacred service.’” (It was written at Deut 6:13).

2. The one faith will not participate in war. Paul stated: (2 Corinthians 10:3) . . .For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. . .

3. The one faith approaches Jehovah through Jesus, Paul said:
(1 Timothy 2:5) . . .For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus. . .Jesus said: (John 14:6) . . .Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. . .

4. Jesus said the one faith would be known by the love of its adherents:
(John 13:34, 35) . . .I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves. . .
It’s adherents would imitate Jesus,
Peter said: (1 Peter 2:21) . . .to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely. . .

5. The one faith will preach the good news of the Kingdom of God, as mankind’s only hope, not a worldly government, Jesus stated:
(John 18:36) . . .“My Kingdom is no part of this world. . . .
He told us to: (Matthew 6:33) 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you.
Jesus stated the main reason he came to earth: (Luke 4:43) . . .“I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent.”
He assigned his followers to: (Matthew 28:19) . . .Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,. . ., 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.

6. The one faith accepts the Bible as the inspired message of God, Paul said:
(2 Timothy 3:16) . . .All Scripture is inspired of God. . .

7. The one faith would appear to be formed in the last days, it’s adherents would be highly educated through instruction, and would live the teachings in their lives: Isaiah wrote: (Isaiah 2:2, 3) . . .In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established . . .And to it all the nations will stream. 3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.

8. The one faith would not set men on high, with religious titles, Jesus said: (Matthew 23:8-10) 8 But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.

9. The one faith does not allow unrepentant sinners to remain among them,
Paul stated: (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) . . .I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. . .“Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”

10. The one faith does not practice interfaith with other “Christian” faiths. All teach the same thing, and have the same line of thought: (2 Cor 6:14) For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?
(Phil 2:2) make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind.
(1 Corinthians 1:10) Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.
Jesus said: (John 17:20) . . .“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word. . .in order that they may be one just as we are one.

I hope this helps you sir, and I understand why you left, but keep this in mind, like you mentioned with the first split, you judge a faith by it's teachings, not by the sins of others like the second example.
No church meets these criteria AND has not split off.
Only the Orthodox Church (Greek, Oriental, Eastern) has never split from its Apostolic founding roots and they do not meet your list of criteria.
So based on the TITLE of this Topic, there is no Church to get Back To.

"All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way"

- Isaiah 53:6a
 

NayborBear

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Hebrews 6:1 NKJV
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God

One of the ruts, or ditches that blind shepherds lead people astray with is that Jesus Christ alone IS His own Father, and own God! And so ignorantly cast off (as in passing) up the Father and God of Jesus Christ!
And God the Father, not striving with man's spirit? DOESN'T! In fact, He doubles down when he sends delusion strong enough that causes people to believe a lie!
Quite the contrast to those who believe that God is ALL LOVING, isn't it?
Sure! This strategy gets people into "churches of stone!" (this is a "sheep fleecer's" dream)
But? And Hopefully? Eventually (probably not), a believer comes to this realization and asks him/herself: "Just what caliber of, and love OF the TRUTH, ARE these people?" "Just what or who's God are these people following and/or worshiping?" "How much are these people forbidding by foreboding (by a misguided love) God in GIVING growth, or increase?"
1 John 2:27
But (If/should-my add)) the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I do believe it is time for all "churches of stone" to COMMIE OFF their "not for profit" status, rather then bend and yield to the downwardly spiraling of legislations that a "they the government" forces and ENFORCES upon these churches of stone, in complying to, in order to keep "not for profit" status!

I also believe that should THIS be successfully accomplished? That aforementioned "they the government/s?" By the POWER OF GOD? Would in fact be PAYING TRIBUTE to be allowed to "carry on governing the raging heathens!"
INSTEAD OF THE OTHER WAY AROUND!


 

Ronald Nolette

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When the disciples left the faith and started their own, do you think God accepted them AT?

What faith did they start? did it contradict the death and resurrection of Jesus? Do you think you might be equating denominations or sects of Christendom with the faith itself?

Even Jesus in the gospel of John said there are sheep in other sheepfolds. It matters not what denomination one belongs- what matters is if they are trusting in christ alone for their salvation.
 

Marc RL Ministry

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What faith did they start? did it contradict the death and resurrection of Jesus? Do you think you might be equating denominations or sects of Christendom with the faith itself?

Even Jesus in the gospel of John said there are sheep in other sheepfolds. It matters not what denomination one belongs- what matters is if they are trusting in christ alone for their salvation.

  • John 10:16 (ESV)
    And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
There is estimated to be 33,000 denominations all around the world they do not hold to the teachings of the One Sheppard and 99% of the church doesn't even represent Christ in its name.
 

JohnDB

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No church meets these criteria AND has not split off.
Only the Orthodox Church (Greek, Oriental, Eastern) has never split from its Apostolic founding roots and they do not meet your list of criteria.
So based on the TITLE of this Topic, there is no Church to get Back To.

"All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way"

- Isaiah 53:6a

And Speaking of "Having Gone Astray"

What is your take on the SBC fuss going on?
I haven't exactly kept up...but I do understand the slanders and labeling and inconsistencies going on with them at the moment.

I never thought that I would see the day that the SCOTUS would have to step in and settle this thing...and it has been a long time in coming. I know the foundations that the SBC was built upon...and how they are trying to get away from that. Its not the same organization that it was 50 years ago I can assure you...and I really wish it was.
 

Robert Gwin

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While I have not waged war as a Christian for personal reasons, this rule seems to have taken the verse out of context.

(I have no serious disagreement with any of the others, just some minor questions on how some would work in practice. Not worth discussing.)

I find that many people feel that way sir, so lets look further in that category to reason on what the Bible really teaches. Using the scriptures, how would you present information to someone showing that it was ok to participate in wars of the nations?
 
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Robert Gwin

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No church meets these criteria AND has not split off.
Only the Orthodox Church (Greek, Oriental, Eastern) has never split from its Apostolic founding roots and they do not meet your list of criteria.
So based on the TITLE of this Topic, there is no Church to get Back To.

"All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way"

- Isaiah 53:6a

Since the Bible states it sir, it has to be. Obviously the new covenant went into force on Pentecost of 33 CE, and God certainly still has people as you would no doubt agree, every faith that claims to be Christian is either that faith or broken away from the original faith. The scriptures I posted are not mine, rather the Bible's identifiers, there is a faith that meets all of those, and even more of the scriptural qualifiers as I only mentioned 10. Those 10 however will leave no doubt to anyone who honestly judges a faith by them.
 

Robert Gwin

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What faith did they start? did it contradict the death and resurrection of Jesus? Do you think you might be equating denominations or sects of Christendom with the faith itself?

Even Jesus in the gospel of John said there are sheep in other sheepfolds. It matters not what denomination one belongs- what matters is if they are trusting in christ alone for their salvation.

Hi Ron, yes sir he did, but he also stated they have to worship God in spirit and truth. Isa 2:2-4 comes into play here, if we are living in the last days as many believe, then that scripture is being fulfilled. Therefore if one chooses not to go to Jehovah's house for instruction, and therefore does not walk in His paths, why would you think He would accept that? Would you? There are many examples of those who refused to accept His provisions, and the results of such.
 

atpollard

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I find that many people feel that way sir, so lets look further in that category to reason on what the Bible really teaches. Using the scriptures, how would you present information to someone showing that it was ok to participate in wars of the nations?
No thank you.

If I quote "By His stripes we are healed" and claim that that proved that God heals all illness, so a Christian should never be sick.
  • That would be a misuse of that scripture.
  • Claiming that is a misuse of that scripture does not mean that I believe God does not heal diseases, it means that I believe that "healing all diseases" is not the subject of that scripture.
  • Asking me to then prove from scripture that God does not heal diseases to counter my criticism of the misuse of that verse is inappropriate.

I have taken NO POSITION on the concept of a Just War.
I have rejected the use of 2 Corinthians 10:3 as a verse condemning the concept of a Just War.