Saved By Grace Through FAITH ...

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Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
So, in contrast to what Paul taught, you teach that you were saved by grace through faith and the sacraments of your church. Well……..there is an obvious addition there, right?
Acts 22:16 who is being told to be baptized?
Acts 8:36-38 how did the eunuch know about baptism?
On your first question, it is Paul.

On your second question, the passage does not say. We could only guess.

Now, what I was referring to is what Paul taught, that Christians are saved by grace through faith. On the other hand you teach something different here, that you are saved through faith and some 7 sacraments.

Tong
R3674
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
What they wrote, are they part of your bible? Are they inspired words of God? Just curious.
No but are Godly men in virtue and learning and are successors of the apostles
If not inspired, they could be wrong, right?

Again, please give reference scriptures about succession.

Tong
R3675
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
In scriptures what you can actually find is baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
Misunderstanding
Acts 2:38 the command to be baptized is in the name of Jesus not the baptism itself
If you are going to honor the name of Jesus then obey Matt 28:19
What you say there does not make much sense. And are you suggesting that when you do not obey Matt.28:19, you dishonor the name of Jesus?

What misunderstanding? Here’s what tou said and I quote

“the holy church founded by Christ on the apostles has always baptized with pure water and the spirit in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit and never faith alone or the spirit alone”

Please give reference scriptures where it speaks of one who was baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Tong
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theefaith

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A man can NOT become Changed WITHOUT FAITH.

It appears YOU are preaching "WORKS" of a man ARE REQUIRED, for Salvation.

Scripture notifies you HOW TO, "gain" Gods Gift of Faith.

Scripture notifies you out of Jesus' Mouth, it is Gods Works that is paramount.

John 6:
29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

not works alone
But faith and works with grace as members of Christ
Mark 16:16

He is our model in everything!

Christian suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
 

theefaith

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Are you referring to the church that do not have or call Peter “pope”?

Also, are you referring to the church who believes in the Jesus who said “Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.”?

Tong
R3668

Isa 22 yes called father
 

theefaith

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A man can NOT become Changed WITHOUT FAITH.

It appears YOU are preaching "WORKS" of a man ARE REQUIRED, for Salvation.

Scripture notifies you HOW TO, "gain" Gods Gift of Faith.

Scripture notifies you out of Jesus' Mouth, it is Gods Works that is paramount.

John 6:
29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

faith and baptism Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
 

theefaith

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Yes their teaching. Such as that the teaching that the virgin Mary is the mother of God. None of the apostles taught that.

This brings to mind, the Bereans, who were of noble character, for they go to scriptures and examine what is preached to them, even that preached personally to them by the apostle Paul.

Tong
R3671

lk 1:43
 

theefaith

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Yes their teaching. Such as that the teaching that the virgin Mary is the mother of God. None of the apostles taught that.

This brings to mind, the Bereans, who were of noble character, for they go to scriptures and examine what is preached to them, even that preached personally to them by the apostle Paul.

Tong
R3671

Holy council of the apostles

Mother of God
Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D.

If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.

Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
So, I would guess Jesus Christ isn’t your personal Lord and Savior.
(Jude 1:3 common salvation communion of saints, one new covenant, not just you and Jesus)
I take that as saying that Jesus Christ is not your personal Lord and Savior.

Tong2020 said:
There is also no such verse in the Bible that says that God is a triune God or is that in your bible that you believe it? I am guessing.

I read nothing in scriptures about succession.

Apparently that is a man made doctrine as I don’t read anything like that in scriptures.
(Divine revelation not scripture alone)
Well, of course you can say that. Very common of false teachers like Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism.

So, if there are other Divine revelations such as succession perhaps, and there were writings on that, why do your church not include them in your Bible, the inspired words of God?

Tong2020 said:
I can see that you were made to believe that a promise is a sacrament. Perhaps you ought to rethink that.
(A promise or sacred oath from God is a sacrament according to the dictionary)
Interesting. Perhaps you can share that reference dictionary.

Tong2020 said:
When was it ever taught by the apostles that the church is necessary for salvation?
(Acts 2;42)

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
The scripture references does not say what you teach nor does it have the apostles there teaching that the church is necessary for salvation. Again, misuse of scriptures.

Tong
R3677
 

theefaith

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On your first question, it is Paul.

On your second question, the passage does not say. We could only guess.

Now, what I was referring to is what Paul taught, that Christians are saved by grace through faith. On the other hand you teach something different here, that you are saved through faith and some 7 sacraments.

Tong
R3674

paul was teaching baptized Christians
 

theefaith

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On your first question, it is Paul.

On your second question, the passage does not say. We could only guess.

Now, what I was referring to is what Paul taught, that Christians are saved by grace through faith. On the other hand you teach something different here, that you are saved through faith and some 7 sacraments.

Tong
R3674

paul

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
 

theefaith

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What you say there does not make much sense. And are you suggesting that when you do not obey Matt.28:19, you dishonor the name of Jesus?

What misunderstanding? Here’s what tou said and I quote

“the holy church founded by Christ on the apostles has always baptized with pure water and the spirit in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit and never faith alone or the spirit alone”

Please give reference scriptures where it speaks of one who was baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Tong
R3676

the church teaches that’s enough the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42
 

theefaith

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I take that as saying that Jesus Christ is not your personal Lord and Savior.

Well, of course you can say that. Very common of false teachers like Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism.

So, if there are other Divine revelations such as succession perhaps, and there were writings on that, why do your church not include them in your Bible, the inspired words of God?

Interesting. Perhaps you can share that reference dictionary.

The scripture references does not say what you teach nor does it have the apostles there teaching that the church is necessary for salvation. Again, misuse of scriptures.

Tong
R3677

Peter leader stood up

acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

mattias successor of judas and if it applies to judus how much more to peter and the faithful apostles?
 

theefaith

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What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!


Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments


Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Are you saying that because you were merciful that God had mercy on you and gave His only begotten Son to die for you?
no Jesus says this
Nope. Misuse of scriptures yet again. No one deserve God’s mercy. Mercy is grace. Even those who were not merciful before their conversion, received God’s mercy.

Tell us, how have you considered yourself as merciful, that God in His mercy, gave His Son Jesus Christ to die for you?

Tong
R3679
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Is your salvation a thing you still hope for?
Yes but it says saved by hope
Therefore not by faith alone
That’s sad to hear.

It means you don’t see and experience your salvation yet, that you still hope for it.

Do you not have faith? Or do you not know what scriptures says faith is?

Tong
R3680
 

Tong2020

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Romans 4:1What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8Blessed is the man to whom theLord shall not impute sin.”
faith and works (prayer fasting alms Christian virtues) thru grace in Christ by baptism and the sacraments
Apparently you are not reading out the passage as to what it says, but is reading into it what you say there. Again, misuse of scriptures.

Tong
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