What is "the holy church"?
Where in Scripture DID Jesus establish a Title for any Disciple or Apostle or other man; of "papa", "father" or of pope (Italian for "father")
Why was Peter Titled "pope", without his knowledge?
Saved By Grace Through FAITH ...
- Thread starter Ronald David Bruno
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
What is "the holy church"?
Where in Scripture DID Jesus establish a Title for any Disciple or Apostle or other man; of "papa", "father" or of pope (Italian for "father")
Why was Peter Titled "pope", without his knowledge?
You did not adequately answer your "christian baptism initation ritual."
You did not anwer who performs the work of justification of a faithful man.
Difficult to have a conversation with you, when you cannot express what your claims mean.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Nope
god baptized us into Christ through his holy spirit
the priest gets you wet. Does the roman church even fully immerse?
The question is WHAT, not HOW.
Christian initiation...IS WHAT exactly?
Christian ritual...IS WHAT exactly?
Christian baptism...IS WHAT exactly?
Sorry to tell you, but Romans 4 doesn’t somehow cancel the book of James.
It’s sad that the majority of believers never read anything but someone’s proof texts on a given topic - this is especially true about works.
They quote Ephesians 2:8-9 about being saved apart from works, without having a clue what works Paul’s talking about, then assume any condition or requirement of a believer is a work, then declare confidently that absolutely nothing is required of us after salvation.
There was a serious controversy in Paul’s day, because many of the early Christians claimed that believers were still required to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.
It got bad enough that all the apostles and church leaders met in Acts 15 to decide what should be done about the problem.
In Paul’s writings, he repeatedly emphasized that believers are saved apart from works of the law of Moses. Every time Paul mentions law, the law, works of the law, or works, he is always referring to the works of the law of Moses.
We are justified by faith apart from the works of the law of Moses, which is made up of 613 statutes, commands, and laws that all have to be kept.
We don’t have to sacrifice animals, keep feast days, burnt offerings, or any of the works of the law of Moses - but there are works other than the works of the law of Moses, and James is emphasizing the type of works required of believers for justification.
Therefore Paul doesn’t cancel out James.
James is talking about works that take care of those in need: widows and orphans, James 1:27, those naked and hungry James 2:15, which is part of keeping the royal law, the law of love, (per the great commandment Jesus gave, which has two parts: loving God with all our heart, and loving our neighbors as ourselves), and we are judged if we fail to keep the royal law, James 2:8-13.
James warns us to be doers of the word, and not hearers only, James 1:22, , and deceiving ourselves.
In fact Jesus sends to hell as sinners those who did nothing to help the needy, in Matthew 25:31-46.
We know from James that the damned in Matthew 25:31-46 failed to keep the royal law, of love - and scripture says if you know to do good and fail to do it, that’s a sin - thus they are sent to hell as sinners, for their sin of ignoring those in need - they are the epitome of those who failed to be doers of the word, and not hearers only, and deceived themselves right into hell.
Are we justified by works of the law of Moses? Absolutely not.
Are we justified by works of taking cars of widows, orphans, the hungry, naked, and homeless and the needy? Absolutely yes.
Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
Jas 2:16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
Jas 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
Jas 2:20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone
Last edited:
Why are you defending NO WORKS Christianity? You must be an OSASer. They don't have to do Christian works. They can NEVER lose their salvation NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO!!!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
You wont be converting this dear sister my friend . She reads her bible and follows Christ .
Just letting you know .
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Here he is lying again, should I report you again for lying about others?
He never said anything resembling what you accused him of
Notice it does not say blessed are those who have faith and works and 7 sacraments, they are justified and shall be saved.
Tong
R3714
Well, any one is free to believe what they want. But to examine what one is teaching against scriptures, whether it is so, is one’s look out.
Tong
R3715
Every true disciple of Jesus Christ.
So perhaps now you would be kind enough to answer the question in my post.
“So, tell us, what is the gospel that you preach to the world?”
Tong
R3716
You are looking at the wrong passages relative to my post.
Regarding your question, the context will tell you what the verse is about.
Tong
R3717
Did those who baptized in Acts 19:5 not obey the command in Mt.28:19? Hmmm.
Tong
R3719
Of course it doesn’t. Gave that not for that reason, but so you might read it and perhaps help you understand what James was saying in James 2:24.
Much of what you said there is true. However you still miss something about justification. There is justification by works and justification by faith. Justification in the sight of man and justification in the sight of God. As I said read, if need be, study Romans 4:1-8.
Tong
R3721
Similar threads
