No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

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David H.

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Hi Dave, Do You Believe When Jesus Christ Returns It Will Be (The End)?

When Jesus Christ Returns It Will Be (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth

I am a premillenial pre-wrather in my eschatology, I Understand some of the partial preterist arguments against the millennialists as my Mother was a sort of partial preterist in her eschatology, But I do not agree with it. It is my belief that the millennium is there for the purpose of vindication and Judgment against the lies of the Devil.
 

Taken

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The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation,


ERROR.
Christ's Church ARE the SAVED.
(We always get a preview, a foreshadow, of Prophecy before Prophecy's fulfillment.)
As in the days of Noah, and Wrath and Tribulation and Destruction upon the Earth...the SAVED (Noah and his family were forewarned and prepared themselves according to Gods Word.)

Matt 24:
[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


AND when Destruction came upon the Earth, Noah and his family were RAISED UP ABOVE THE FACE OF THE EARTH, TO the Face of the Water, Escaping the destruction upon the face of the Earth.
(Gen 7:18)

AGAIN when Wrath and Tribulation and Destruction SHALL come upon the Earth, THE SAVED Shall be RAISED UP above the face of the Earth to the Face of the Water, CLOUDS, and Escaping the destruction upon the face of the Earth.
(1 Thes 4: 17,18)



and second coming of Jesus Christ

The first Coming was Jesus, the Son of man.
The second Coming will be the return of Jesus, the Son of man.
(Human men can not SEE Christ. Christ is the Power of God, the Wisdom of God, the Seed of God.
It is Jesus, the Word of God, in the LIKENESS AS A MAN, that human men SEE...and ALL men shall SEE Jesus, the Son of man, when he returns.


Matt 24;
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the [Son of man] coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

"Clearly" teaches below, there will be no (Pre-Trib Rapture) as dispensationalism falsely teaches, dont be deceived

Clearly you teach AGAINST what you do not fully comprehend.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

michaelvpardo

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Hi Michael, just wondering your belief?

1.) Do you believe the plagues of Egypt under Moses/Aaron were "literally" brought upon Pharaoh and Egypt as written?

2.) Sodom and Gomorrah "literally" destroyed by fire from heaven?

3.) Elisha and "literal" fire from heaven?

Thanks, Jesus Is The Lord
Absolutely. You don't?
 

Truth7t7

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I am a premillenial pre-wrather in my eschatology, I Understand some of the partial preterist arguments against the millennialists as my Mother was a sort of partial preterist in her eschatology, But I do not agree with it. It is my belief that the millennium is there for the purpose of vindication and Judgment against the lies of the Devil.
Thanks for the response David, so you deny the words (Then Cometh The End) at the coming of Jesus Christ

When Jesus Christ Returns It Will Be (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
 

Truth7t7

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Absolutely. You don't?
I believe all 3 items mentioned below were historically "Literal", cant judge a book before you open its cover

What do your believe?


1.) Do you believe the plagues of Egypt under Moses/Aaron were "literally" brought upon Pharaoh and Egypt as written?

2.) Sodom and Gomorrah "literally" destroyed by fire from heaven?

3.) Elisha and "literal" fire from heaven?

Thanks, Jesus Is The Lord
 
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Truth7t7

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ERROR.
Christ's Church ARE the SAVED.
(We always get a preview, a foreshadow, of Prophecy before Prophecy's fulfillment.)
As in the days of Noah, and Wrath and Tribulation and Destruction upon the Earth...the SAVED (Noah and his family were forewarned and prepared themselves according to Gods Word.)

Matt 24:
[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


AND when Destruction came upon the Earth, Noah and his family were RAISED UP ABOVE THE FACE OF THE EARTH, TO the Face of the Water, Escaping the destruction upon the face of the Earth.
(Gen 7:18)

AGAIN when Wrath and Tribulation and Destruction SHALL come upon the Earth, THE SAVED Shall be RAISED UP above the face of the Earth to the Face of the Water, CLOUDS, and Escaping the destruction upon the face of the Earth.
(1 Thes 4: 17,18)





The first Coming was Jesus, the Son of man.
The second Coming will be the return of Jesus, the Son of man.
(Human men can not SEE Christ. Christ is the Power of God, the Wisdom of God, the Seed of God.
It is Jesus, the Word of God, in the LIKENESS AS A MAN, that human men SEE...and ALL men shall SEE Jesus, the Son of man, when he returns.


Matt 24;
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the [Son of man] coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.



Clearly you teach AGAINST what you do not fully comprehend.

Glory to God,
Taken
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

Taken

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You cant provide one scripture that teaches a pre-trib rapture, not one

If you require the words, "there shall be a pre-tribulation rapture"... no, those words are not in Scripture.

If you comprehend...
1 Thes 5
[9] For "God hath not appointed us to wrath," but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ...

I have obtained Salvation by my Lord Jesus Christ.
I am the "us" NOT appointed to wrath.

If you comprehend...
The Tribulation and Destruction of Great Flood was an event orchestrated BY GOD, BECAUSE of his Anger and that Anger is revealed by ACTS of WRATH....and ANOTHER foretold Great Tribulation period is coming...
THREE specific Wraths...
FOR the ANGER (of Rejection) of THREE specific Identified.
* THE Lamb of God's WRATH first.
(That does not apply to me. Because the Lambs Wrath is for Rejecting Jesus.)
* THE Devils WRATH secondly.
( That does not apply to me. As the Devil has no influence on me. I am already Sealed unto God).
* Gods Wrath thirdly.
(That does not apply to me. As Gods Wrather is for Rejecting God).

The Destruction is World WIDE. Jesus, God are NOT present ON EARTH during the Earths Destruction.

Noah was not ON EARTH during the Earths Destruction.
Where do you think you will be...? Hiding in a cave? Eating Locusts? Drinking rivers of blood? Doing what? Preaching the Gospel while a third of the worlds trees are burning, and men are floating alway in rivers of volcanic lava?

* Why do you think Noah who was SAVED, was SAVED by being risen up, and Christ's Chruch who are SAVED, Will be LEFT ON EARTH to endure the wrath of the Lamb, the wrath of the Devil and the wrath of God...??
EXPRESSLY after Scripture notifies you, the Saved ARE NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Truth7t7

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If you require the words, "there shall be a pre-tribulation rapture"... no, those words are not in Scripture.

If you comprehend...
1 Thes 5
[9] For "God hath not appointed us to wrath," but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ...

I have obtained Salvation by my Lord Jesus Christ.
I am the "us" NOT appointed to wrath.

If you comprehend...
The Tribulation and Destruction of Great Flood was an event orchestrated BY GOD, BECAUSE of his Anger and that Anger is revealed by ACTS of WRATH....and ANOTHER foretold Great Tribulation period is coming...
THREE specific Wraths...
FOR the ANGER (of Rejection) of THREE specific Identified.
* THE Lamb of God's WRATH first.
(That does not apply to me. Because the Lambs Wrath is for Rejecting Jesus.)
* THE Devils WRATH secondly.
( That does not apply to me. As the Devil has no influence on me. I am already Sealed unto God).
* Gods Wrath thirdly.
(That does not apply to me. As Gods Wrather is for Rejecting God).

The Destruction is World WIDE. Jesus, God are NOT present ON EARTH during the Earths Destruction.

Noah was not ON EARTH during the Earths Destruction.
Where do you think you will be...? Hiding in a cave? Eating Locusts? Drinking rivers of blood? Doing what? Preaching the Gospel while a third of the worlds trees are burning, and men are floating alway in rivers of volcanic lava?

* Why do you think Noah who was SAVED, was SAVED by being risen up, and Christ's Chruch who are SAVED, Will be LEFT ON EARTH to endure the wrath of the Lamb, the wrath of the Devil and the wrath of God...??
EXPRESSLY after Scripture notifies you, the Saved ARE NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH?

Glory to God,
Taken
God has not appointed the Church to wrath?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the false claim of a pre-trib rapture, nothing
 
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David H.

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hanks for the response David, so you deny the words (Then Cometh The End) at the coming of Jesus Christ

When Jesus Christ Returns It Will Be (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

As I mentioned in an earlier Post here Time is immaterial to an eternal God. The way Peter Puts it a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. This prophecy much like the passage from Micah 5 Spans many thousands of years without giving us the time frames involved. So For example, Christ and the firstfruits were resurrected during the first advent, Then the passage jumps to the second coming in the same sentence which is 2000 years and counting later, and "Then cometh the end" It does not say immediately, or give any indication of time In fact the opposite is true, it says for HE MUST REIGN till he hath put his enemies under his feet which would include Satan who according to the passage in revelation is loosed for a little while after the thousand years have ended. \

What Preterists in general do not fully understand is that Satan must fall multiple times from His position, and the final fall is when He is cast into the lake of fire, and death and hell with Him. He fell the first time from the third heaven, then he fell from the second heaven in Isaiah 14:12 where He Fell from the second heaven, he also fell when Jesus saw him falling like lightning from the first heaven( Luke 10:18), He will fall once again when the saints overcome him by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony (Revelation 12:10-11) and he is cast down to earth, and from there he is locked into the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:3) and then from there cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:10)

This the process of vindication which I am speaking of that the millennium serves the purpose of, and why I do not agree with the preterist view on these things. I Think if you logically look at this at this you may see this process unfold But if you are just trying to preach your agenda you will never see the Truth of it. So I do not deny the passage that the end cometh but I just see that there is time involved between the second coming and the end as is indicated by verse 25, which squarely points to the millennial reign of Christ.
 

Truth7t7

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As I mentioned in an earlier Post here Time is immaterial to an eternal God. The way Peter Puts it a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. This prophecy much like the passage from Micah 5 Spans many thousands of years without giving us the time frames involved. So For example, Christ and the firstfruits were resurrected during the first advent, Then the passage jumps to the second coming in the same sentence which is 2000 years and counting later, and "Then cometh the end" It does not say immediately, or give any indication of time In fact the opposite is true, it says for HE MUST REIGN till he hath put his enemies under his feet which would include Satan who according to the passage in revelation is loosed for a little while after the thousand years have ended. \

What Preterists in general do not fully understand is that Satan must fall multiple times from His position, and the final fall is when He is cast into the lake of fire, and death and hell with Him. He fell the first time from the third heaven, then he fell from the second heaven in Isaiah 14:12 where He Fell from the second heaven, he also fell when Jesus saw him falling like lightning from the first heaven( Luke 10:18), He will fall once again when the saints overcome him by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony (Revelation 12:10-11) and he is cast down to earth, and from there he is locked into the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:3) and then from there cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:10)

This the process of vindication which I am speaking of that the millennium serves the purpose of, and why I do not agree with the preterist view on these things. I Think if you logically look at this at this you may see this process unfold But if you are just trying to preach your agenda you will never see the Truth of it. So I do not deny the passage that the end cometh but I just see that there is time involved between the second coming and the end as is indicated by verse 25, which squarely points to the millennial reign of Christ.
I Strongly Disagree, There Is No 1,000 Year Gap Between Verses 23-24 Below, That Is "Adding" To Scripture To Achieve Your Desired Outcome, "Scary"!

When Jesus Christ Returns It Will Be (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

David H. "Adds" 1,000 Years Here?

24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

David H.

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What Preterists in general do not fully understand is that Satan must fall multiple times from His position, and the final fall is when He is cast into the lake of fire, and death and hell with Him. He fell the first time from the third heaven, then he fell from the second heaven in Isaiah 14:12 where He Fell from the second heaven, he also fell when Jesus saw him falling like lightning from the first heaven( Luke 10:18), He will fall once again when the saints overcome him by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony (Revelation 12:10-11) and he is cast down to earth, and from there he is locked into the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:3) and then from there cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:10)

Right now, Satan sits as the prince of the Power of the air (Ephesians 2:2) and the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4).
 

Truth7t7

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Right now, Satan sits as the prince of the Power of the air (Ephesians 2:2) and the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4).
Ok Satan is currently active, nothing new

Right now Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of the father, as he currently reigns

Your suggestion that verse 25 8s a Millennial reign is false, a Millennial Kingdom on this earth is found no place in the scripture


There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation?

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ?

(Behold, I Make All Things New)


2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 
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David H.

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I Strongly Disagree, There Is No 1,000 Year Gap Between Verses 23-24 Below, That Is "Adding" To Scripture To Achieve Your Desired Outcome, "Scary"!

As I said, you have an agenda to preach and do not desire and hunger for the truth....
 

Truth7t7

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As I said, you have an agenda to preach and do not desire and hunger for the truth....
You dont present truth, a Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is Found No Place In Scripture, "No Place"

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

Taken

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1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived


I'm not.


The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, " this is nothing more than the (Second Coming)"
No it isn't.
The archangel does the CALLING UP to the CLOUDS.
The Church meets the Lord in the air/clouds.

ARE you amiss? THE AIR/CLOUDS are NOT THE EARTH!
The Second Coming IS the Son of man "COMING TO EARTH"!!
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First learn the difference between the clouds, air and earth.
Secondly set aside your preconceived notions and read the word for what it says.
Thirdly ASK GOD for "HIS UNDERSTANDING", because your understanding is mindful and erroneous.

Always Order and Way of God.

God Bless,
Taken




 

David H.

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Your suggestion that verse 25 8s a Millennial reign is false, a Millennial Kingdom on this earth is found no place in the scripture

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4

Are you the one taking away words from the prophecy of this book? It is obvious this comes after the mark of the beast, because these people did not worship the beast, and the beast rules for 42 mionths which has not happened yet, so therefore, You are simply WRONG.
 

Truth7t7

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And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4

Are you the one taking away words from the prophecy of this book? It is obvious this comes after the mark of the beast, because these people did not worship the beast, and the beast rules for 42 mionths which has not happened yet, so therefore, You are simply WRONG.
There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

Truth7t7

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And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4

Are you the one taking away words from the prophecy of this book? It is obvious this comes after the mark of the beast, because these people did not worship the beast, and the beast rules for 42 mionths which has not happened yet, so therefore, You are simply WRONG.
Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations
which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
 

Taken

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God has not appointed the Church to wrath?

Follow the order.
The Saved and Born Again ARE the Converted.
The Converted ARE the members of Christ's Church.
Correct, Christ's Church, the Saved, the Converted ARE NOT appointed to WRATH.

Wrath is a consequence for Rejecting the Lord God....really? You are confused God should be angry and pour out wrath on those who believe in the Lord God?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the false claim of a pre-trib rapture, nothing

Tribulation IS ALL ABOUT WRATH and Destruction....ofcourse the catching up those not appointed to wrath is significant to conversation and your accusations.
 

michaelvpardo

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I Am not a prophet. Never have I claimed to be. Any of us who are walking in the Spirit can receive the word of Prophecy, But this does not make us a prophet. A step below a prophet is a watchmen or a seer, That is what I am. Like Balaam's Donkey. A watchmen is not always right, but they warn of the possibilities of what they see coming to fruition in the hopes of averting disaster. If they fail to warn, blood is upon their hands, and if those who are warned do not heed them the blood is upon their own hands. Read Ezekiel 33.
Okidoki, but I don't know that there's really a distinction between a watchman and a prophet. I've heard this before, but haven't actually seen it in scripture. Was Jonah a watchman or a prophet? I only ask because he preached " yet 40 days and Ninevah will be destroyed ". It happened eventually, but a long time after those 40 days were long past. The prophets were always those sent to national authorities to warn them of their sin and error, and to call them to repentance. Its assumed that the church is the prophet to the world now in that we have His Spirit within us, but in the church the purpose of prophesy is to reveal hidden sin. When the pastor preaches something that brings conviction, isn't that the Spirit of prophesy speaking through the pastor and working on the heart of those convicted? And if the pastor is in error and living sinfully, you would hope that the church elders would confront him (or her), but not all churches have spiritual elders. Some have no elders at all. Who then, confronts a pastor who has "gone off the reservation " and causing the congregation to sin through imitation? The body of Christ cannot function properly with missing parts.
 
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