Since that is NOT God's plan why go there? Do you trust the Bible or your own speculative thinking?
Where is the reformation in the Bible?
- Thread starter theefaith
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The methodology eludes me but I do have the promise of Jesus, 'I will never leave you or forsake you' I find that comforting particularly in times of fog
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Matt. 6/18 Don't think so. just a figment of your imagination.
John 20/21-23 Don't think so. Just a figment of your imagination.
Ephesians 2/20 Don't think so. Just a figment of your imagination.
ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ
Rejection of scripture is rejection of Christ
??? I don't claim to know God's plans except knowing they are greater than I imagine.
I know Jesus means Salvation.
Love believes all things, bears and endures all things, hopes all things. Never ends, Love never fails.
1 Corinthians 13
Yes and No @theefaith
The fishers and farmers Jesus spoke to of God's Kingdom, using verbal and visual parables of mustard seeds and teaching people to fish, were illiterate and ignorant of Scripture that Jesus reserved for Pharisees who committed to rule by those laws.
The robber crucified next to Jesus said simply when you get to your Kingdom please remember me, and Jesus said you will be with me in paradise.
Faith in Jesus leads to Salvation.
Understanding Scripture is a tool but not a condition on Salvation that follows from understanding, not necessarily written knowledge of laws that are means of communicating so we can be in agreement on God's Word, regardless what language we use. Jesus used Parables for those who were illiterate. He said to love one another as He did, and that is one way to love our neighbor by speaking the language of love in ways they can receive, not for our convenience using terms that work for us.
faith and baptism are required to enter the new covenant Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
Acts 2:38!etc.
True. But not for evil angels or demons.
Again, not for evil spirit entities.
When confronted by Christ, legions of demons were afraid that He would send them into "the deep" -- which is the bottomless pit. But instead they were allowed to enter a herd of swine which drowned. Since spirit beings do not drown, they probably went to the bottomless pit -- which they feared. But that is not the end of the story. They will all be cast into eternal Hell -- the Lake of Fire -- eventually.
Yes @Enoch111
It is the Lord's Authority that casts out demons.
All the successful ministries I know teach only to pray to send these demons to the Lord to take over from there.
They advise against trying to dictate what the Lord does from there.
If people attach their own expectations, these demonic forces go back and attach themselves to the people by their conditions.
This puts people at risk of assuming authoritarian judgment that demonic energies then abuse to divide and conquer.
The best most consistent advice and practice that keeps people safe and protected is to hand over all this to the Authority of God through Christ Jesus.
I can ask for transformation but that isn't demanding it or requiring/judging others to.
If you are requiring others to command that demons burn in hell, etc, that is stepping into the Lord's shoes and not protecting the people.
It is dangerous, because the evil energy attracts and attaches to people doing that.
If you want to believe ask and pray for demons to go to hell, of course you can, but that isn't the same as commanding it in place of God.
Revenge belongs to the Lord.
I believe the flames burn away the impurities.
So if you are saying nothing evil is left,
I totally agree.
It is the Lord's Authority that casts out demons.
All the successful ministries I know teach only to pray to send these demons to the Lord to take over from there.
They advise against trying to dictate what the Lord does from there.
If people attach their own expectations, these demonic forces go back and attach themselves to the people by their conditions.
This puts people at risk of assuming authoritarian judgment that demonic energies then abuse to divide and conquer.
The best most consistent advice and practice that keeps people safe and protected is to hand over all this to the Authority of God through Christ Jesus.
I can ask for transformation but that isn't demanding it or requiring/judging others to.
If you are requiring others to command that demons burn in hell, etc, that is stepping into the Lord's shoes and not protecting the people.
It is dangerous, because the evil energy attracts and attaches to people doing that.
If you want to believe ask and pray for demons to go to hell, of course you can, but that isn't the same as commanding it in place of God.
Revenge belongs to the Lord.
I believe the flames burn away the impurities.
So if you are saying nothing evil is left,
I totally agree.
BreadOfLife
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Since you seem to have missed it the first time around - I already obliterated your objections back in post #333.
Gee - it's NO WONDER you ignored it, but here it is again . . .
The Apostles.
In Acts 1, when they gathered to choose a replacement for Judas - Peter quotes Psalm 109, when he says:
Acts 1:20
"Let another take his office."
The Greek word used here for "office" is "Episkopay", which means BISHOPRIC.
This was NOT a temporary replacement - but a succession of Judas's Bishopric.
At the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 - the Apostles wrote a letter to the Church at Antioch because of the false teachings of the Judaizers.
They stated in NO uncertain terms that ONLY those who were sent out be THEM had the Authority to teach:
Acts 15:14-16
Since we have heard that some of our number who went out without any mandate from us have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind, we have with one accord decided to choose representatives and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And they close out the letter with:
Acts 15:28-29
‘IT IS THE DECISION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND OF US not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.’”
ALL of this harkens back to the God-given Authority the Church was endowed with - that WHATEVER the Church binds and looses on earth is also bound and loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).
That whoever listens to or rejects His Church listens to or rejects HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16).
And that SAME Church would be guided to ALL truth by the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15).
This is why Paul refers to the CHURCH as the pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim 3:15) and the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
This is also why Jesus compared His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
And THAT, my friend, is supreme Church Authority.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
theefaith could not admit that there is no doctrinal purity test to enter heaven. He's a fully indoctrinated into the Roman Catholic "one and only true faith" construct.
Well @Wrangler
He who shall be chief of all shall be servant to all.
God's truth and laws are Universal.
So if the Catholic is the only right way to teach everyone Universally we would all be Catholic.
Catholics can serve everyone but that way of teaching works for a limited audience.
We are better off working as a team to serve everyione, and not judging by whose system serves more people.
I cannot reach the people you can.
You and @theefaith reach different audiences.
If we are to do greater works than Jesus, this means all people of all church denominations helping those we can reach.
Together in Christ the church is made whole.
By ourselves, no, not any one group is going to have greater or less claim than any other.
You are both right and perfect for the calling God designed you for.
Let us be like the orchestra where all members play their parts and help each other be the best musicians we can be for God.
My music looks nothing like yours.
But we play our parts as God has written just for us, regardless of size or volume, and the symphony works out perfectly!
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The major issue with Catholicism is that while they are very good at helping people in this temporal life... Social justice and equity and the common good etc etc, they can only lead you to their institution which fails miserably in leading people to as knowledge of and relationship with Jesus. They replace Jesus with anything and everything else...generally the system of rituals and sacraments they subscribe to. All of which is the polar opposite to Christ.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I've posted this before but it seems you weren't listening...
To those Catholics who blindly and resolutely believe their church is the pillar and foundation of truth on the basis of Jesus' promise that the gates of hell would not prevail, forget the long line of so called heretics who were mutilated, obscenely abused, dispossessed of land, family, culture, and home, because in the spirit of Christ they dared to point out the excesses, the sins, the evils and profanities that marked the downward spiral of the Papacy. It was they to whom the promise was given. It was they with whom Christ abode through all the trials and abuses. It was they who were the true pillars and foundations of truth. And it remains so today.
The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God’s government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. A ‘truth’ that must use violence to secure its existence cannot be truth. Rather the truth that moves the sun and the stars is that which is so sure of its power that it refuses to compel . . . by force. Rather it relies on the slow, hard, and seemingly unrewarding work of witness, a witness which it trusts to prevail even in a fragmented and violent world.
This witness, encapsulated in the “theology of the cross,” and expressed in the self-accusing confession “I am a sinner” and commitment to fight evil in one’s life, is the crux of the Christian moral revolution. Precisely by turning to self the accusing finger that had been pointed at another, confession engendered what the theologian Krister Stendahl called “the introspective conscience of the West,” and thus shattered the “scapegoat mechanism,” the primordial, universal human practice to make oneself appear good by falsely accusing others. It was a radical departure from “the old path that the wicked have trod” (Job 22:15, NIV)—so radical that Paul said it meant death and a new life. “For we know that our old self was crucified with [Christ] (Romans 6:6, NIV). “I no longer live, but Christ lives in me” (Galatians 2:20, NIV).
People kill themselves in many ways, but never by crucifixion. That’s done by another. “Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (John 3:6, NIV). Spiritually, the impossibility of crucifying oneself and producing a new life; or, put differently, the ability of God alone to do it is what is expressed in the Protestant credo of sola gratia, by grace alone. It’s precisely the sola, the alone, that raised the ire of the medieval Papacy, because it excluded all the sacramental-liturgical and Platonic-Aristotelian additions to the gospel upon which its power and authority was based. In short, the ire was provoked by politics.
Indeed, politics is the clue to the Counter-Reformation and the modern Papacy. “Whatever the doctrinal differences the structural one remains the most intractable. As before Luther, Rome still plays politics and claims secular and spiritual dominance . . . a church that is a state and a state that is a church,” as this magazine’s editor has often noted. This unchristian amalgam, we must recall, was the specific target of Voltaire’s rallying cry Ecrasez l’infame (crush the infamy); and also of the anticlericalism, radical atheism, and dechristianization of the French Revolution, which set the modern world against Christianity, even as it is, in Holland’s words, “still utterly saturated by Christian concepts and assumptions.”
The order of authority derives from God, as the Apostle says [in Romans 13:1-7]. For this reason, the duty of obedience is, for the Christian, a consequence of this derivation of authority from God, and ceases when that ceases. But, as we have already said, authority may fail to derive from God for two reasons: either because of the way in which authority has been obtained, or in consequence of the use which is made of it.
You seem to keep missing the point. No one requires anyone to command the demons to burn in Hell. That has already been decided by God and Christ. Demons fear and tremble at the name of Christ because He has already judged them. You need to stick with what is in the Bible.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
"I have more insight than all my teachers,
For Your testimonies are my meditation."
Psalm 119:99
1) "Teachers" (eg, "Early Church Fathers") are not the last word--God can grant understanding in excess of theirs,
2) Only meditating on God's Word, the OT Scriptures, grants that superior insight Romans 15:4, 1 Corinthians 9:10, 1 Corinthians 10:11, 2 Timothy 3:15,
3a) This infers that what our teachers are supposed to be expounding is God's Word, the OT Scriptures, which were written for Christians--and which Scriptures, not incidentally, are what grant that Christians may become wise with respect to salvation which is by faith in Christ--ie, "Apostolic Dogma" says look to the Scriptures to receive wisdom in the Holy Faith Romans 15:4, 1 Corinthians 9:10, 1 Corinthians 10:11, 2 Timothy 3:15.
3b) There are, of course, endless examples of this--there are explicit "it is written [in the OT Scriptures]" statements that dot the "NT Scriptures", showing where these doctrines came from, and there are OT Scripture allusions galore (eg, just about the entire Book of Revelation/Apocalypse).
For Your testimonies are my meditation."
Psalm 119:99
1) "Teachers" (eg, "Early Church Fathers") are not the last word--God can grant understanding in excess of theirs,
2) Only meditating on God's Word, the OT Scriptures, grants that superior insight Romans 15:4, 1 Corinthians 9:10, 1 Corinthians 10:11, 2 Timothy 3:15,
3a) This infers that what our teachers are supposed to be expounding is God's Word, the OT Scriptures, which were written for Christians--and which Scriptures, not incidentally, are what grant that Christians may become wise with respect to salvation which is by faith in Christ--ie, "Apostolic Dogma" says look to the Scriptures to receive wisdom in the Holy Faith Romans 15:4, 1 Corinthians 9:10, 1 Corinthians 10:11, 2 Timothy 3:15.
3b) There are, of course, endless examples of this--there are explicit "it is written [in the OT Scriptures]" statements that dot the "NT Scriptures", showing where these doctrines came from, and there are OT Scripture allusions galore (eg, just about the entire Book of Revelation/Apocalypse).
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Dear @Backlit
If their role is to serve people in charitable programs, let them do that work.
Maybe it is given to others to do the individual one on one counseling that it takes to teach learn and understand.
What is wrong with different people playing different roles?
The person gifted in plumbing should not waste time and talent trying to teach clarinet. Let the clarinet teacher do that part.
What if we focused on the Good contributions each group specializes in.
It makes more sense to me to feature a Trumpet player on notes they play well.
Not complaining they can't play the flute part. If they aren't designed for that purpose why set them up to fail?
BreadOfLife
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This is nonsense.
YOUR attempt to nullify the promises of Christ based on the sins of some men within His Church is as ludicrous as trying to delegitimize Christ Himself for having chosen Judas as one of the first leaders of His Church - whom He later called a "devil" (John 6:70-71). The sins of those men in Church history - even those who were in places of leadership doesn't make Matt. 16:18, 18:15, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15 or John 20:21-23 simply "go away".
Jesus WARNED about men like this WITHIN His Church (Matt. 7:15, 24:11) - and so did Paul (Rom. 16:17-19), Peter (2 Pet. 3:3) and Jude (Jude 1:4). And NOWHERE in any of these passages were the faithful advised to break off into their own sects - or follow false prophets as YOU did.
Paul wrote an entire chapter about NOT doing this (1 Cor. 3) . . .
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