Am so naughty!!

jiggyfly said:

Exactly, just because it was translated by men doesn't mean that it's accurate. How long was Jonah in the fish's belly? Is the Old covenant with Israel still binding?

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Why do I need to translate it when I know the Greek? You're really stretching to continue in heresy. The words Paul penned and that were UNDERSTOOD as ETERNAL at the time... Weren't accurate?

Here's the thing... God used humans to CONVEY his message. You're right. The "Common tongue of heaven" or whatever, the Greek was just a translation of it. But guess what? It was a translation inspired by GOD- HE put it into words that were accurate and we could understand.

You must call God a liar (All scripture is God-breathed) to maintain this belief of yours.

Ask yourself if you really want to stand before the throne some day and answer for not only ignoring scripture but actively preaching against it? It bears a CURSE. Is it worth the risk simply to make your gospel more friendly to the world????????
It belittles God. Do you really think he needs or even wants (or will even ALLOW) you to change his gospel to make it more friendly?

aspen said:

Not as tough as preforming the mental gymnastics necessary to call a bad god good

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The only one calling God's actions bad is YOU.

God killing the people was good because... The rule was sin = death. God would lie if he didn't do that. God would also not be a good God because he would ALLOW SIN TO REIGN.
But this is the god of Aspen: the one that lets sin reign.


Aspen, this isn't even about doctrine anymore. This is dangerous ground to be on. You're no Christian if you believe God allows and even encourages sin. There's no good reason to stop sinning in your world.
Sin is not some mystical force and it's just "against" people. Sin is what PEOPLE DO. He must punish the PEOPLE THAT DO IT.


This is something you won't want to be in the throne room for. You are not a Christian if you have invented your own God. It's as simple as that.
"You did not believe my word. You did not believe me. You refused who I am. Depart from me into the eternal fire."... What are you going to do? Throw a hissy fit with God? "That's not what you do!", "Why do you say that aspen?", "Because my definition of good is not this!", "Since when does YOUR definitions matter to me?"
I can only imagine what that conversation will be like.

Now, instead of responding to me with a reply, I ask you to carefully consider this. It's damning.
Think about it, take a breather from it, and READ THE BIBLE- and step away from the stinking Catholic materials for awhile... And meditate and study. Come to an understanding.
Let the Bible form your views. Don't form your own view of "good" (as you've done) and then have to force the Bible to fit it (which is what you're doing)... Let the Bible form your view.
Repenting from your current views is hard, it might take months. It sucks, I've had to do the same... But guess what... Your understanding is much better and you're rebuilding it on a solid foundation of truth, verses a pile of man-made rubbish (which is exactly what I had done). When it came right down to it, I held those beliefs because that's what I... ME... wanted. They didn't come from the Bible.

There's another thread talking about music.

Could I stand in front of God some day and answer for listening to hard rock sometimes? Sure... I really don't think I ever would, but it's a low risk situation, if I am wrong then I do have someone to intercede for me.

But some things are MAJOR things to take risks on.

Questioning the nature and character of God? Denying what he tells us? Refusing to accept what he tells us?
This isn't even, "Yeah... I know I shouldn't do that but sometimes I do it anyway" kind of sin. This is denying and correcting God, "No, God, you're wrong- what you said isn't truthful- it doesn't work like that".

I'd be scared shitless, honestly, if I had to answer for beliefs like that.

Aspen has already called the God of the Bible BAD... I'm going to guess that won't go over too well.

Maybe this is something Christ will cover but I really don't think so... It questions who God is... Your god is not the same as my God. Only one of us is right. I don't have to ignore scripture to come to the definition of my God, however... So take a simple guess- at who's has the least risk of being wrong?

Here's something else to think about, Aspen...
Even in light of EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE... Sodom and Gomorrah, The Flood, Revelation where Christ will SPEAK DEATH to his enemies... James (The half-brother-once-doubter of Christ) says this:
God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.


Even in light of everything in the Bible- the people that walked with God himself knew that what God had done and will do: is always good.


Even in the future, the martyrs who dwell with God, and are under the altar... Say this:
O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?
They see that his judgement is something GOOD, it's something EXPECTED, they are with God! And they understand why he must do it- and they even LONG for it. Not for selfish reasons, mind you... But they see God's plan. They see what we can't, that somehow: God's vengeance is entirely necessary.


These are people who both spoke with and dwell with God. They understand that everything in the past, and everything in the future- this includes killing the majority of people that have lived- is GOOD.


This is how you let the Bible form definitions and characters of God: not doing it with our sin-inhibited minds, but letting the Bible form it.

TexUs said:

Why do I need to translate it when I know the Greek? You're really stretching to continue in heresy. The words Paul penned and that were UNDERSTOOD as ETERNAL at the time... Weren't accurate?

Here's the thing... God used humans to CONVEY his message. You're right. The "Common tongue of heaven" or whatever, the Greek was just a translation of it. But guess what? It was a translation inspired by GOD- HE put it into words that were accurate and we could understand.

You must call God a liar (All scripture is God-breathed) to maintain this belief of yours.

Ask yourself if you really want to stand before the throne some day and answer for not only ignoring scripture but actively preaching against it? It bears a CURSE. Is it worth the risk simply to make your gospel more friendly to the world????????
It belittles God. Do you really think he needs or even wants (or will even ALLOW) you to change his gospel to make it more friendly?

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Since you know the "Greek" why not answer my questions. How long was Jonah in the fish's belly? How long does the old covenant with Israel last?

Paul said Jesus is the savior of everyone, everything is reconciled back to Father through Christ, that every knee bows and every tongue confesses allegiance to God, and that absolutely nothing can separate us from the Love of God. We definitely don't agree on this subject or many others concerning scripture, HolySpirit, Christ and God the Father and His character so I think it best to limit my responses to you and keep it on "necessary" basis.

jiggyfly said:

Since you know the "Greek" why not answer my questions. How long was Jonah in the fish's belly? How long does the old covenant with Israel last?

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I don't even see why I should bother looking at it because I don't see how it's relevant.

jiggyfly said:

Paul said Jesus is the savior of everyone, everything is reconciled back to Father through Christ, that every knee bows and every tongue confesses allegiance to God, and that absolutely nothing can separate us from the Love of God.

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Those have been explained to you may times, yet you refuse to look at them in Biblical context.

jiggyfly said:

Paul said Jesus is the savior of everyone, everything is reconciled back to Father through Christ, that every knee bows and every tongue confesses allegiance to God, and that absolutely nothing can separate us from the Love of God. We definitely don't agree on this subject or many others concerning scripture, HolySpirit, Christ and God the Father and His character so I think it best to limit my responses to you and keep it on "necessary" basis.

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If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. John 15:10

Well, here I am again - facing accusations from people who are terrified of the very God they worship. I have no doubt that you would be scared "shitless" to use your word TexUs - frankly I think you live your life that way. So let me try to untangle this knot of anxiety and naked terror you guys have created.

1. I never said I didn't believe the Flood account was literal.

2. I tend to believe that the Flood account is an important story about God's Sovereignty and how he cares about His creation

3. Believing in a literal flood account or not has nothing to do with salvation.

4. If doubting the flood account is calling Jesus a liar than He must be pretty insecure and he really must want to send people to Hell.

5. When I get to Heaven, and I find out which ideas I have are wrong, I will shrug my shoulders and say "oops, I guess I missed the mark" and God and I will have a good chuckle about it.

6. If doctrine is leading you to make accusations, rather than love, it is teaching you to act like the Devil - I am serious! Scripture is supposed to lead you to love your neighbor, not accusing him of calling Jesus a liar or trying to scare him straight.

I remember, as a new Christian, I started attending this youth group - the youth minister was nice and he encouraged me to ask questions and as you can probably guess, I came up with some real whoppers. As time past, the youth director move on to find a better job and new youth director move into his position. He was a man who had a chip on his shoulder - he was tired of everyone belittling Jesus and he was going to put a stop to it starting with our youth group. Of course, being new, I had really never encountered a Christian leader who was arrogant and angry - so I continued to ask questions. One of my speculations was that since Satan started out good, he must actually be good in the smallest way possible. Of course he was the baddest thing in the universe, but only in comparison to holiness and perfection. When I mentioned my idea to my youth director, he got red in the face and started shaking - seriously! and when he could finally speak he basically barked out "YOU ARE CALLING JESUS A LIAR!!! GET OUT!" I was horrified and I actually ran out of the church and never went back. It was years before I really believed in the love of God again. Ironically, the speculation I was having was the same speculation that Origen contemplated in the 3rd century - so I found out I wasn't some evil crackpot - just a Christian who likes to think. The lessen I learned from that experience is that I will never fear my thoughts of God again. If I am going to choose to respond to Christ in a loving way, I have nothing to fear. So I have to say, I really do feel sorry for those Christians who are so terrified of their God that they are scrabbling to get everyone saved, as if God really wants to kill us all, but He is giving us one last chance to shape up or ship out to Hell. And on that day of judgment, He will finally get to unleash His Holy and Righteous anger and do what He could barely stand waiting to do - smite all the arrogant bastards that have dared to stand up against Him!!! It is like a narcissistic fantasy!! God is not like this and never has been. I sure hope everyone gets to be in relationship with the true God of love - it really is life changing.

blessings

aspen said:

4. If doubting the flood account is calling Jesus a liar than He must be pretty insecure and he really must want to send people to Hell.

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You're kidding yourself.

Pharoh, Judas,,,,,,,, Whoever else.

God did say he will harden Pharoh's heart. However, Pharoh's heart was hardened already. Pharoh was the type of person that would repent in the face of God, then quickly forget. It's the mannor of Pharoh's heart that God saw, and just simply gave Pharoh what Pharoh wanted.

Judas, the same thing. I think Judas just didn't want to believe in Jesus, and in his heart really just wanted to do his own thing. He seemed to kind of tag along because he thought it was the right thing, not because he BELIEVED it was the right thing.

With both of these people, I honestly believe that neither of them would repent in an honest and truthfull manor.

Did God cause them to sin? No He just gave them what they wanted in their hearts. But, each time it was for a purpose far greater than we could fathom, even though the Bible shows the purpose. We still can't picture the grand scale.

Many people worry that they'll be a Judas. Many worry that God is just using us for a single purpose to help save someone else, then BAM! send us to hell.

ROFLOL! Ain't the red faced pointy one tricky?

Just one of the many lies,,,,,"Oh, you've sinned too much, You did that on purpose, God doesn't love you, You don't love God, God doesn't want you, You're worthless........." And the list goes on and on.

IMHO, Do we as Christians sin? Yes, But, it's not our nature to do so. As in, we don't chose that as a way of life. Our flesh is corrupt and our hearts (what our flesh wants) is wicked.

The difference between the saved, and the unsaved, is pretty simple.

The saved sin, but, don't chose it as a lifestyle, and feel sorrow for any and every sin, and wish for nothing more than to be sinless and perfect and holy. We wish for nothing more than to love God with all our hearts and soul, and to never feel temptation, and never fall. We want God to be happy with us.

The unsaved sin, but, they chose it as a lifestyle, and feel no sorrow for any of it. They don't believe there's anything wrong with most of what they do, as long as it's not hurting anyone. They might believe in God, but don't care to know his ways. They may feel guilt, but quickly turn away to stories and ideas that make them feel better about their current lifestyle.

Long winded of course, but, Don't worry about it, dont' believe the lies. God loves you and has a purpose for you, but, it's not just to throw you into the fire.