Reply: Call no man father

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goodserverity

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In conclusion

We can see that Roman Catholics are SOLA dependent upon manipulating phrases, words, and letters of “ one line phrases “ and half sentenced - and special KEY WORDS that are special Catholic " POWER WORDS " or catholic “ POWER PHRASES “ - that they separate and lift out of the body of passage, to form an entire new doctrine and new taught ideas, based on a single line - or a single word - or a half of a sentence.

The Bible is filled with TEACHING, EXPLANATIONS, REPEATING OVER AND OVER -
FULL DETAILS, INFORMATIONAL EXPLANATIONS.

They make sure that the reader fully understands.... The writers make themselves very, very clear.

You notice that Catholics also - tend to always take advantage of the “ LONE WORDS “ words that are not often used - or words that are used just one single time in the manuscript, pretending that they are special " POWER WORDS " GREEK and HEBREW words that have other MYTHICAL, MAGICAL and special MEANINGS, that make implications and imaginative deductions to things that are never taught and mentioned in the manuscripts...


Catholics will take just a single lone word in a passage and remove JUST ONE SINGLE WORD from the passage and remove the context and the content - and they will take this one word and invent a completely new teaching or faith - based upon “ A SOLA WORD “ This is why Roman Catholics will complain that Non – Catholics are “ SOLA SCRIPTURA “

Catholics are the ones who in fact are abusing the scriptures and who in fact are “ SOLA SCRIPTURA “ Their faith is based upon taking just a single lone word in a passage and removing JUST ONE SINGLE WORD from the passage and removing the context and the content surrounding the word - and taking this one SOLA word and invening a completely new teaching or faith - based upon “ A SOLA WORD “

This is the true error in “ A SOLA WORD “ that Roman Catholics are doing, as they project the abusive and error that they are committing of abusing “ SOLA SCRIPTURA “

Trusting in God’s word is offensive to Roman Catholics and the real abuse of “ SOLA SCRIPTURA “ is done by removing JUST ONE SINGLE WORD from a passage and removing the context and the content surrounding the word - and taking this one SOLA word and inventing a completely new teaching or faith unfounded in the passages and contrary to the passages.

The Bible is very detailed in explaining that Mary did have other children who were the siblings of Yahashua.

We see in John 7
Yahashua is home - at home with His brothers, His Mother / Family / in Galilee:
He was hiding out and could not walk around in Judaea because the Jews there sought to kill him.
In verse :3 His brothers said unto him, Leave from here, and go into Judaea, so that your disciples also can see the works that You do. And verse :5 explains that Yahashua’s very own little younger brothers did not even believe in him.


His own younger brothers are telling Him to leave His home in Galilee, and to go into Judaea and show His miracles to His disciples. Because that his own brothers, did not believe in Him.

HIS OWN BROTHERS ARE SENDING HIM AWAY - telling him to go to his disciples because his own brothers at home - do not believe in him.


The Bible leads one to understand that there was a sexual experience between Mary and Joseph and that Mary had other sons and daughters. It deliberately and consciously makes a clear distinction between the brothers of Yahashua the other children of His mother - Mary the mother of James and of Hoseas, and Shalloma the brothers and sister of Yahashua.

Catholics ask the question such as “ Why Is Joseph no longer around and mentioned and no longer with Mary. But the reason is because Yahashua whole family were not around Yahashua for most of His ministry because He was creating problems by debating with the authorities in Israel. All of the Family could only survive by limiting their contact time with Yahashua - especially Joseph – a businessman who was a carpenter, trying to make a living.

Remember that -- Yahashua refuses to even address Mary as " Mother "
We see how that Catholics deceive people just as The Vatican Primates in Rome with - quack / mythconception stories about Mary preaching and remaining a virgin and ascending up to heaven in a living bodily form - These types of stories are all made up and propagated and transmitted by people such as the Popes who go about kissing other perverted books such as the Quran.


Even when Mary was sorrowing frantically, worriedly frightened and desperately in turmoil as she searched for Yahashua for three whole days. Yahashua did not say “ Hey Mom, let’ s go preaching together !No, Yahashua blew her off and reminded her that His business of preaching and witnessing - was not her business. Yahashua was separating himself from his mother and letting her realize that his ministry was the most important thing that now mattered - and that Mary was not a part of that mission and ministry.

This was his fathers business.

Remember =
Luk 2:48 and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing in torment and pain. { torment = / odunaō }
Yahashua had no interest in Mary’s sorrow / torment and pain concerning her three day agonizing panic search and panic attacks and horrible fears concerning His whereabouts.

The Angel had already explained what Yahashua’ s
mission and purpose on earth was and Mary knew that He was not Her real son, born from conception. - Yahashua was rebuking that false emotional ideology that Mary was bringing to Him
His business was not to be concerned about Mary’s ideas as a mother.

if Yahashua denied the idea that Mary was his real mother, then according to Catholic ideology and theology - Mary is not the mother of anyone.
 

theefaith

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thanks for sharing

what flavor of fundamentalist kook aid are you drinking?

Joseph was to take Mary as his spiritual wife to provide for Mary and Jesus and to provide a family.

biblical principle:

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
(And no man could touch it, for it was pure and consecrated to God)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness!

woman: Jesus is reminding us of the promise of God from gen 3:15 Mary is the woman, and the woman of rev 12:1

thanks
 

theefaith

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Only God can be born of a Virgin-mother!

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
 
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tsr

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Many Protestants claim that when Catholics address priests as “father,” they are engaging in an unbiblical practice that Jesus forbade: “Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven” (Matt. 23:9).

In Matthew 23:9 Jesus says, "And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." Many people interpret this to mean, "Do not call a priest "father," and do not call your dad "father." Some who hold this opinion go further and believe that calling a priest "father" violates Scripture because it seemingly involves the rejection of a direct command from Jesus. This is a common objection to the Catholic Church. But, if we believe the conclusion that it is wrong to call others "father," then what are we to make of the Scriptures that contradict this one? For example, in Mark 7:9-13, Jesus criticizes the Pharisees and scribes for not honoring their "fathers." Furthermore, calling the apostles and their successors "father" was common within the early Christian communities (cf. 1 Cor. 4:15; 1 Jn. 2:12; Acts 7:2; 22:1).
 
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theefaith

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Many Protestants claim that when Catholics address priests as “father,” they are engaging in an unbiblical practice that Jesus forbade: “Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven” (Matt. 23:9).

In Matthew 23:9 Jesus says, "And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." Many people interpret this to mean, "Do not call a priest "father," and do not call your dad "father." Some who hold this opinion go further and believe that calling a priest "father" violates Scripture because it seemingly involves the rejection of a direct command from Jesus. This is a common objection to the Catholic Church. But, if we believe the conclusion that it is wrong to call others "father," then what are we to make of the Scriptures that contradict this one? For example, in Mark 7:9-13, Jesus criticizes the Pharisees and scribes for not honoring their "fathers." Furthermore, calling the apostles and their successors "father" was common within the early Christian communities (cf. 1 Cor. 4:15; 1 Jn. 2:12; Acts 7:2; 22:1).
Thanks
 

BreadOfLife

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.Thanks very much for responding to my post, it was an honor to read what you had to say.
Do you not realize that it is not difficult to realize that - Joseph did not have marital relations with Mary UNTIL she gave birth to her first born son
This was the very point of the Angel’s message to Joseph - the Angel commanded him to do not be fearful about his concerns regarding Mary’s pregnancy - and to take Mary as his wife.

Proceed with sexual intimacy - and marriage, the Angel was removing Joseph's fears about the sexual problem that he faced with the marriage...... Commanding him to stop being fearful to take
Mary as his wife.

WHY WOULD AN ANGEL OF GOD COMMAND OR COMPELL A MAN WHO WAS PLANNING TO HAVE SEXUAL INTIMACY AND SEXUAL INTERCOURSE " marriage " WITH A WOMAN - TO NOT BE FEARFUL ABOUT THE WOMAN'S SEXUAL SITUATION AND PREGNANCY - IF GOD EXPECTED THE WOMAN TO REMAIN A PERPETUAL VIRGIN ?


This ideology is complete perversity. The Angel was encouraging a man to have sex with a woman in marriage - but God wanted the woman to remain a virgin ? ?

However, Joseph did not have marital relations with Mary UNTIL / up to the time, after the birth.


What Protestants are overlooking, When discussing Mary’s relationship with her children - brothers and sisters of Yahashua

The most important and overlooked fact that we must remember is that, never once, do we find Yahashua calling Mary as his mother. THE AUTHOR OF THE SCRIPTURES - The Holy Spirit

The Holy Spirit does not recognize Mary as the real mother of the adult Yahashua, mainly regarding in his ministry and heavenly deity .

Yahashua repeatedly and continually always refers to Mary as WOMAN , “

Not only, does Yahashua refuse to call Mary as his mother - but he goes out of his way to make it known that he calls Mary - as simply “ woman “ making a clear distinction to let everyone around him understand, that he does not consider Mary to really be his mother.
To Yahashua - Mary is called - “ woman “ / lady.


The Question is - If Roman Catholics insist that Mary is the mother to all believers - then why would the believer be calling Mary as “ Their Mother “ when Yahashua denied and refused to call Mary as his mother ?

This fact - this very fact - concerning the reality and the Holy Spirit in Yahashua himself does not consider Mary to be the real Mother of Yahashua,
this is the very reason that when we find in the following verses - below
saying _

Mat_13:55 Yahashua's mother is Mary - and his brothers are James, Hoses, Simon, and Judah ?

:56 And the sisters, { of Yahashua } are they not all with us
Mat 27:56 Mary the mother of James and Hoses,
Mat_27:56 Mary the mother of James and Hoses
Mar_15:40 Mary the mother of James Hoses, and { His Sister } Shalloma ;
Mar_15:47 Mary the mother of Hoses
Mar_16:1 Mary the mother of James, and { His Sister } Shalloma
Luk_24:10 Mary the mother of James

We are seeing here, the Bible is making a distinction to separate Mary from being recognized as the Mother of Yahashua - just as Yahashua also does the same exact thing.

in all of these passages, this is the Mother and brothers and sister of Yahashua, however, as Yahashua did not recognized and Identify Mary as his real mother - the scriptures are making the same distinction.
When Yahashua was teaching to the multitudes during in his ministry, his Mother and Brothers and Sisters came and were calling upon him But Yahashua declared to the crowds - answering them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
Where are my brothers and where is my mother ?

Mar 3:34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, saying LOOK - Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, they are my brother, and sister, and my mother.

All we need to do is follow the Holy Spirit, that authored the Bible - but to Roman Catholics, the Holy Spirit has not authored their Bible - their Holy Traditions are the inspiration and author of their Translation and author of their faith.
Thank you for illustrating your woeful ignorance of the Scriptures.
Time for a Bible Lesson . . .


For starters - the use of the word "until" in Matt. 1:25 says NOTHING of what happened afterward. As a matter of fact - there are SEVERAL instances in Scripture where this word is used WITHOUT any implications of some subsequent action:

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?


Moses was buried by God in the valley of Moab after his death. Deut. 34:6 explicitly states: And he buried him in the valley of the land of Moab over against Phogor: and no man hath known of his sepulchre UNTIL this present day.
Sooooo – did they find his grave after this??

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44): For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool? The problem here is that the ignorant people attempt to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.

Secondly - Joseph was "fearful" at the prospectpof Mary being STOnED TO DEATH for the sin of adultery. He wasn't fearful about her sexually.

Finally - as to your asinine reasoning for Jesus calling His mother "Woman" - your ignorance once again rears its ugly head.
First of all - Mary IS His mother because the Word of God says so (Matt. 1:18, 13:55, Mark 6:3, Luke 1:43, John 2:1,3).

Jesus's use of the term, "Woman" to describe His mother in John's Gospel correlates directly to the Woman in Gen. 3:15 and in Rev. 12.
Jesus defeats death on Calvary (Skull place) and fulfills the prophecy in Gen. 3:15 about the offspring of the Woman. Mary is present at the foot of the cross while this is happening - and WHAT does Jesus call her in John 19:26? He calls her “WOMAN”, because the prophecy about the head of the serpent being crushed in Genesis is taking place right there on Calvary.

Notice that the prophecy in Gen. 3:15 speaks of the offspring of the WOMAN?
Why
does it say He is HER offspring of she is NOT His Mother?

I'll be waiting right here for your answer . . .
 
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Illuminator

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Matt. 1:25 – this verse says Joseph knew her “not until (“heos”, in Greek)” she bore a son. Some Protestants argue that this proves Joseph had relations with Mary after she bore a son. This is an erroneous reading of the text because “not until” does not mean “did not…until after.”
“Heos” references the past, never the future.
 

theefaith

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Lk 1:34 (no sex ever)

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit!

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)
 

Illuminator

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In conclusion

We can see that Roman Catholics are SOLA dependent upon manipulating phrases, words, and letters of “ one line phrases “ and half sentenced - and special KEY WORDS that are special Catholic " POWER WORDS " or catholic “ POWER PHRASES “ - that they separate and lift out of the body of passage, to form an entire new doctrine and new taught ideas, based on a single line - or a single word - or a half of a sentence.

The Bible is filled with TEACHING, EXPLANATIONS, REPEATING OVER AND OVER -
FULL DETAILS, INFORMATIONAL EXPLANATIONS.

They make sure that the reader fully understands.... The writers make themselves very, very clear.

You notice that Catholics also - tend to always take advantage of the “ LONE WORDS “ words that are not often used - or words that are used just one single time in the manuscript, pretending that they are special " POWER WORDS " GREEK and HEBREW words that have other MYTHICAL, MAGICAL and special MEANINGS, that make implications and imaginative deductions to things that are never taught and mentioned in the manuscripts...


Catholics will take just a single lone word in a passage and remove JUST ONE SINGLE WORD from the passage and remove the context and the content - and they will take this one word and invent a completely new teaching or faith - based upon “ A SOLA WORD “ This is why Roman Catholics will complain that Non – Catholics are “ SOLA SCRIPTURA “

Catholics are the ones who in fact are abusing the scriptures and who in fact are “ SOLA SCRIPTURA “ Their faith is based upon taking just a single lone word in a passage and removing JUST ONE SINGLE WORD from the passage and removing the context and the content surrounding the word - and taking this one SOLA word and invening a completely new teaching or faith - based upon “ A SOLA WORD “

This is the true error in “ A SOLA WORD “ that Roman Catholics are doing, as they project the abusive and error that they are committing of abusing “ SOLA SCRIPTURA “

Trusting in God’s word is offensive to Roman Catholics and the real abuse of “ SOLA SCRIPTURA “ is done by removing JUST ONE SINGLE WORD from a passage and removing the context and the content surrounding the word - and taking this one SOLA word and inventing a completely new teaching or faith unfounded in the passages and contrary to the passages.
12. However, since God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, (6) the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words.

To search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to "literary forms." For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. (7) For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another. (8)

But, since Holy Scripture must be read and interpreted in the sacred spirit in which it was written, (9) no less serious attention must be given to the content and unity of the whole of Scripture if the meaning of the sacred texts is to be correctly worked out. The living tradition of the whole Church must be taken into account along with the harmony which exists between elements of the faith. It is the task of exegetes to work according to these rules toward a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture, so that through preparatory study the judgment of the Church may mature. For all of what has been said about the way of interpreting Scripture is subject finally to the judgment of the Church, which carries out the divine commission and ministry of guarding and interpreting the word of God. (10)

13. In Sacred Scripture, therefore, while the truth and holiness of God always remains intact, the marvelous "condescension" of eternal wisdom is clearly shown, "that we may learn the gentle kindness of God, which words cannot express, and how far He has gone in adapting His language with thoughtful concern for our weak human nature." (11) For the words of God, expressed in human language, have been made like human discourse, just as the word of the eternal Father, when He took to Himself the flesh of human weakness, was in every way made like men.

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION
DEI VERBUM
CHAPTER III
 
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I'm glad you asked. The answer is simple. Take Bible verses literally when they support your doctrine and when they don't, take them figuratively to suppose they support your doctrine.

I call my biological father, "Dad."

what do you call a teacher?
 

goodserverity

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Thank you very much for taking the time to explain your Catholic faith, and presenting your Catholic translation. I hope you will enjoy reading my response as much as I have enjoyed reading yours.


Your translation, and Catholic message, however, does not transmit the true message of the original manuscripts. In fact your translation and message completely perverts and makes mockery of the Bible.

May I respectfully and honestly tell you that “ Your Catholic faith “ is an false orbit of contradicting and half lies that have been slowly compounded and compiled together stemming and twigging from previous half lies originating from the beginning of the Catholic Organization.
Catholicism is built SOLELY / SOLA upon the popular whims and impulsive FAD of Romantic Catholics..

For eXample - The term “ Mary The Co - Redemptress “ was used by Fatican Primate Leo XIII in 1894.

Fatican Primate Leo XIII insisted that = "For in the Rosary all the part that Mary took as our Co - Redemptress comes to us..."
Co-Redemptrix was used three times by Roman Congregations under by Fatican Primate Pius X:
under the Magisterium he insisted “ Mary was - The Co - Redemptress “ three times by the Holy See in the initiatives of three Congregations of the Curia, in the publication of their official acts, Acta Sanctae Sedis (later to become Acta Apostolicae Sedis)."
But then - years later when it isn’t selling and making a profit - Fatican Primate Benedict XVI declared that this Marian title caused confusion and did not sufficiently reflect scripture.
Jorge Mario Bergoglio “ Your Primate / Roman Pontiff Francis - today - calls the idea of declaring Mary co-redemptrix ‘ as = FOOLISHNESS’ -

on December 12, 2019 the Pope Francis called the idea of declaring Mary co-redemptrix ‘foolishness’ saying how Mary “never introduced herself as co-redemptrix.
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/12/pope-calls-idea-of-declaring-mary-co-redemptrix-foolishness/ & Once again, Pope Francis says Mary is not the ‘co-redemptrix’

LET’S LOOK AT THE ENTIRE STORY - instead relying upon the “ One Step Theology “ that is the crumbling foundation and pillar of the Catholic faith.
Catholicism is built upon - “ One Step Theology “



the Catholic will use the passage found in Luk 1:42 - saying, Elizabeth to Mary . . .
:42 Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Catholics attempt to transfer this message over onto Mary - to demand that Mary is a Co Matrix and Co Redeemer and CO Mediator and Heavenly Queen - and an equal part, in similarity as the same - as the fruit -
Mary SPIRITUALLY receives the transferred merits and attributes, powers and quality’s and transmutations - of the blessed fruit within her womb - Yahashua.

But in scriptures - when a woman Roman Catholic woman approached Yahashua in Luk 11:27 attempting to declare that Mary’s body and womb and breasts were also blessed for bearing him.

Luk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yes instead, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Here, again - Yahashua was not interest nor concerned in promoting the WORSHIP and ADULTEROUS FALSE ADORATION that places Mary within his spiritual orbit or ministry - nor his deity and traits.
The Holy Spirit had plenty of opportunity to promote the Catholic Faith, but instead we find that the manuscripts declare that the Catholic Faith is not a part of God.

The Roman Catholic will demand that “ Jesus's use of the TITLE , "Woman" to describe His mother in John's Gospel correlates directly to the “ T I T L E “ Woman, in Gen. 3:15 and in Rev. 12.

fulfilling the prophecy in Gen. 3:15 - offspring of the Woman Mary as a T I T L E - to the serpent head being crushed in Genesis.
They base this partly upon the fact that Yahashua did not refer to Mary as HIS MOTHER - he insisted upon always calling her a TITLE “ AS WOMAN “

But when we look in the Genesis account from the NT we find that this ideology centered upon a TITLE “ AS WOMAN “ does not exist
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but “ THE WOMAN “ being deceived was in the transgression.
There is nothing here concerning an ideology centered upon a TITLE “ AS WOMAN “ in fact this is the word that God calls for Eve continually

Gen 3:1 Now And he said unto the woman, - :2 And the woman said unto the serpent
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman - :6 And when the woman saw that the tree was
Gen_3:12 And the man said, The woman - :13 And the LORD God said unto the woman
Gen_3:15 I will put enmity between thee and the woman, - :16 Unto the woman he said


IN FACT - Yahashua continually - is using the TITLE “ AS WOMAN “ to the strangers and foreigners and aliens and outsiders and the unwanted and needy women around him.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.


Mat 26:10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
Luk 13:12 Whom when Jesus saw, he called her unto him and said to her: Woman, thou art delivered from thy infirmity.

Yahashua in fact is using the TITLE “ AS WOMAN “ for an adulterous fornicating immoral woman.

YAHASHUA HAD NOT ESTEEMED AND RESERVED ANY TITLE SUCH “ AS WOMAN “ he even gives this TITLE “ WOMAN “ to an adulterous fornicating immoral woman who is guilty of adultery and caught red handed.

Joh 8:10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: “ WOMAN “ Woman, where are they that accused thee?

Neither Yahashua nor the Holy Spirit has no interested in preserving a special catholic tradition that gives a TITLE “ AS WOMAN “ to Mary -

Yahashua used this term for women who he wished to distance himself from and remove the personal connection between them.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHY HE USED THE TERM “ WOMAN “ ALWAYS FOR MARY - he had no interest in pretending that Mary was a part of his ministry, mission and relationship with God

Mary was not involved in the life of Yahashua after he became an adult, he lived his life in the desert, on the road and the countryside and in the hills and mountains and the wood.

If Mary was some great Spiritual Lightening Rod and a spiritual outlet or God’s special wall socket or God’s extension cord - Yahsahua would have been dragging Mary around with him everywhere he went and would have been confiding in Mary for spiritual support and giving her the attention he gave to his disciples.

But instead Mary was home, having intimacy with her husband she had married and with her children she had bore living her life and had little time for chasing after Yahashua - only to continually and repeatedly be ignored and pushed aside in order that his ministry and spiritual life could be fulfilled.

A real MOTHER in the life of Yahashua did not exist - this concept is not a reality in the manuscripts.

It would have been a sin and a lie and BLASPHEMY for Yahashua to go about calling Mary his mother
He would be denying his identity and lying about who he was.
 

goodserverity

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In conclusion, - we always see the Roman Catholic demanding that the Greek word “ UNTIL “ does not mean that Joseph had intercourse with Mary after her pregnancy.]

Matt 1:25 He knew her not UNTIL she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

Catholics demand that 2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

The Greek word “ ἕως heōs - heh'-oce “ means = UNTO - UNTIL
MEANING IN DEFINITION Of a continuance, until (of time and place): - even (until, unto), (as) far (as), HOW LONG, - up) to, / while the time of - until.

All of these verses refer to a changing of a past tense situation that is changing or ending at a specific point to be continued or RESUMING or CHANGING IN THE FUTURE .

Mat 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, HOW LONG / heōs / UNTO / UNTIL shall I be with you? HOW LONG / heōs / UNTO / UNTIL shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

THE WORD / heōs literally means HOW LONG - DELAY UNTIL A POINT IN TIME THEN THE PRECEEDING EXPECTED ACTION IS CONTINIUM.

Luk 17:8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, HOW LONG / UNTIL / heōs I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there HOW LONG / UNTIL / heōs I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Mat 2:15 And was there HOW LONG / UNTIL / heōs the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son

These passages explain that a satiation is in effect HOW LONG / UNTIL a specific condition has been met
AFTER THE CONDITION HAS BEEN MET - after a time or event has transpired - the preceding expectation follows


.Mat 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide HOW LONG / UNTIL ye go thence.
Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, HOW LONG / UNTIL the Son of man be come.
Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, HOW LONG / UNTIL the whole was leavened.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, HOW LONG / UNTIL they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, HOW LONG / UNTIL the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? HOW LONG / UNTIL seven times?
Mat 18:30 and Mat 18:34 The servant was cast into prison, HOW LONG / UNTIL he should pay the debt.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, HOW LONG / UNTIL all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, HOW LONG / UNTIL the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 27:8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, HOW LONG / UNTIL this day.
Mat 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land HOW LONG / UNTIL the ninth hour.
Mat 27:64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure HOW LONG / UNTIL the third day

Mar 6:23 And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give it thee, HOW LONG / MUCH / UNTIL the half of my kingdom.
Luk 1:80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts HOW LONG / UNTIL the day of his shewing unto Israel.
Luk 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, HOW LONG / UNTIL he find it?

And Joseph did not have sexual INTERCOURSE / SEX relations with Mary heōs / HOW LONG / UNTIL AFTER

We do not know exactly how long after the birth sexual intercourse happened - but that sex took place after that she had given her birth -

but he did not have sex with her,
heōs / UNTIL HOW LONG / UNTIL after the event of the birth.
HOW LONG DID JOSEPH WAIT TO HAVE SEX WITH MARY - he waited - “ until heōs “ after the baby was born.

The Bible explains that even the brothers of Yahashua did not believe in him- Mary was not strongly influencing the rest of his family, her teaching to her children and to the rest of the family had no major effect concerning the identity of Yahashua. Mary and her family really had no idea what was happening until it was over.

She was a beautiful woman and Christians cherish her memory and love her dearly, but she was just a normal human being just like everyone else around her - who just happened to be young enough to still be a virgin, who was planning and preparing a life with her new husband = to soon marry a man and have intimacy and sexual love - and God took that opportunity to fulfill his purpose.
 
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Illuminator

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Thank you very much for taking the time to explain your Catholic faith, and presenting your Catholic translation. I hope you will enjoy reading my response as much as I have enjoyed reading yours.

I scroll past shallow hate rants.
 

kcnalp

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"Call no man father"

Clearly meaning religiously. God is my Father. My mother and father produced me. No priest is my father!
 

theefaith

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In conclusion, - we always see the Roman Catholic demanding that the Greek word “ UNTIL “ does not mean that Joseph had intercourse with Mary after her pregnancy.]

Matt 1:25 He knew her not UNTIL she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

Catholics demand that 2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

The Greek word “ ἕως heōs - heh'-oce “ means = UNTO - UNTIL
MEANING IN DEFINITION Of a continuance, until (of time and place): - even (until, unto), (as) far (as), HOW LONG, - up) to, / while the time of - until.

All of these verses refer to a changing of a past tense situation that is changing or ending at a specific point to be continued or RESUMING or CHANGING IN THE FUTURE .

Mat 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, HOW LONG / heōs / UNTO / UNTIL shall I be with you? HOW LONG / heōs / UNTO / UNTIL shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

THE WORD / heōs literally means HOW LONG - DELAY UNTIL A POINT IN TIME THEN THE PRECEEDING EXPECTED ACTION IS CONTINIUM.

Luk 17:8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, HOW LONG / UNTIL / heōs I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there HOW LONG / UNTIL / heōs I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Mat 2:15 And was there HOW LONG / UNTIL / heōs the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son

These passages explain that a satiation is in effect HOW LONG / UNTIL a specific condition has been met
AFTER THE CONDITION HAS BEEN MET - after a time or event has transpired - the preceding expectation follows


.Mat 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide HOW LONG / UNTIL ye go thence.
Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, HOW LONG / UNTIL the Son of man be come.
Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, HOW LONG / UNTIL the whole was leavened.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, HOW LONG / UNTIL they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, HOW LONG / UNTIL the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? HOW LONG / UNTIL seven times?
Mat 18:30 and Mat 18:34 The servant was cast into prison, HOW LONG / UNTIL he should pay the debt.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, HOW LONG / UNTIL all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, HOW LONG / UNTIL the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 27:8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, HOW LONG / UNTIL this day.
Mat 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land HOW LONG / UNTIL the ninth hour.
Mat 27:64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure HOW LONG / UNTIL the third day

Mar 6:23 And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give it thee, HOW LONG / MUCH / UNTIL the half of my kingdom.
Luk 1:80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts HOW LONG / UNTIL the day of his shewing unto Israel.
Luk 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, HOW LONG / UNTIL he find it?

And Joseph did not have sexual INTERCOURSE / SEX relations with Mary heōs / HOW LONG / UNTIL AFTER

We do not know exactly how long after the birth sexual intercourse happened - but that sex took place after that she had given her birth -

but he did not have sex with her,
heōs / UNTIL HOW LONG / UNTIL after the event of the birth.
HOW LONG DID JOSEPH WAIT TO HAVE SEX WITH MARY - he waited - “ until heōs “ after the baby was born.

The Bible explains that even the brothers of Yahashua did not believe in him- Mary was not strongly influencing the rest of his family, her teaching to her children and to the rest of the family had no major effect concerning the identity of Yahashua. Mary and her family really had no idea what was happening until it was over.

She was a beautiful woman and Christians cherish her memory and love her dearly, but she was just a normal human being just like everyone else around her - who just happened to be young enough to still be a virgin, who was planning and preparing a life with her new husband = to soon marry a man and have intimacy and sexual love - and God took that opportunity to fulfill his purpose.

Is mother of Jesus ok with you?
Still mother of our savior
Still mother of our salvation
 

goodserverity

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Yes theefaith

Anything you say or claim is ok with me.

You can pray to Mary and make a new idol of her every day of your life and bow down and kiss and caress the idol every single day -

This is all ok with me - I would even defend your right and stand by your side to assist and enable you to in any way you needed - until you have the complete freedom to perform this religious faith with ease and you can even profit from spreading your faith.

i would help you protect your property and money.

It is ok with me -
 

goodserverity

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Let's look at the original manuscript message and take each word - word by word and see how they compare to the Catholic Translation.

KJV - 1Co 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

Geek Manuscripts - 1Co 4:17

δια The reason - τουτο that which - επεμψα is sent - υμιν you - τιμοθεον Timotheos - ος who - εστιν is τεκνον a son - μου I αγαπητον belove και also πιστον faithful - εν in - κυριω The Lord - ος that - υμας you - αναμνησει remember - τας this - οδους way -


μου I - τας that - εν in - χριστω the anointing - καθως how - πανταχου everywhere - εν in - παση all - εκκλησια the church - διδασκω teach


:17 - The reason that which is sent you Timotheos who is a son I belove also faithful in the Lord that you remember this way, I that in the anointing how everywhere in all the church I teach.

Paul is explaining that he is sending Timotheos who is a Son and he is beloved and also faithful in the Lord.

Timotheos will be reminding the church concerning the teachings that Paul had previously given them.

The passage says nothing about Timotheos - being - as the son of Paul - Paul simply is saying he is a son.



Php 2:22 την This is - δε also - δοκιμην proof - αυτου yourselves - γινωσκετε to know - οτι that - ως how - πατρι a fathers - τεκνον son - συν is with - εμοι me - εδουλευσεν serving - εις unto - το the - ευαγγελιον gospel

Here Paul is explaining :19 he is …. sending Timotheus soon unto you
:20 Paul has no other man likeminded man with him, who will care for them
:21 all other men are seeking their own - and not the things which are Yahashua, The Anointings..

Paul is not directly saying that Timotheus is his own son - just read the passage from the Greek manuscripts

HERE IS THE EXACT TRANSLATION. Meaning =

Php 2:22 This is also proof yourselves to know that how a fathers son is with me serving unto the gospel.

Paul is simply saying that Timotheus is a fathers son serving with him unto the gospel.


Again we see another mistranslation - in 1Ti 1:2

1Ti 1:2 τιμοθεον Timotheos - γνησιω genuine - τεκνω son - εν in - πιστει faith - χαρις grace - ελεος mercy - ειρηνη peace - απο of - θεου God - πατρος Father - ημων ours
- και also - χριστου The Anointing - ιησου Yahashua… - ιησου Yahashua - χριστου The Anointing - του the - κυριου Lord - ημων ours



Meaning - = 1Ti 1:2 Timotheos genuine son in faith, grace, mercy, peace of God The Father ours, also The Anointing Yahashua. Yahashua The Anointing, the Lord ours.

This is the exact - word for word translation from the Greek manuscript. In 1Ti 1:2 - the translators delete the last part of the verse that says - Yahashua The Anointing, the Lord ours.


We can see the message in 1Ti 1:18

1Ti 1:18 ταυτην This is - την the - παραγγελιαν charge - παρατιθεμαι committed - σοι you τεκνον son - τιμοθεε Timotheos - κατα upon - τας that - προαγουσας going before - επι upon - σε you - προφητειας prophesying - ινα this - στρατευη battle - εν in αυταις them - την is - καλην a good - στρατειαν warfare

What are the manuscript referring to in this passage
explaining that - some individuals are causing problems who have swerved and turned aside unto vain babblings, who desire to be teachers of the law understanding nothing they say
And others have caused problems such as Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

The manuscripts are explaining - Meaning

= 1Ti 1:18 This is the charge committed you son Timotheos upon that going before upon you prophesying this battle in them is a good warfare

The KJV does not add the word “ MY “ SON - but the Douay Rheims Catholic Translation adds the word
“ OH “ Son - as if Paul was really intending to claim he was calling Timotheos his son.

The translators are also - reshuffling and rearranging and moving words around to make the passages say what they want them to say.

KJV - 1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
 
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goodserverity

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Here is another major mistranslation - in Heb 12:5



Και And - εκλελησθε - forgotten - της the - παρακλησεως exhortation

- ητις which - υμιν you - ως as like - υιοις a son -

διαλεγεται I speak to - υιε sons - μου I - μη do not = ολιγωρει disparage / lower / belittle - παιδειας by chastening - κυριου The Lords -

μηδε neither - εκλυου faint / weary - υπ under - αυτου his - ελεγχομενος reprove - admonishment


What is notable - is that there is nothing about the idea of despising or despise it says nothing about despising anything “ this verse was completetly changed and altered by the translators.

Notice the KJV here below

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:


And notice the manuscript - word for word message

Heb 12:5

And forgotten the exhortation which you as like a son I speak to sons I do not disparage / lower / belittle by chastening The Lords, neither faint / weary under his reprove - admonishment.

Here, Paul is saying nothing about - calling anyone his sons - he is saying he is exhorting and speaking to them as a son - he is speaking to Sons of the Lord

Saying further he and they - are not to faint and weary under the admonishment of the Lord.

This passage is completely perverted - added to and words are rearranged and switched around and an entirely different message has been translated into the Translation.

Could go through and show every single last one of these passages have been altered, manipulated over exaggerated and lifted out of context - never in the manuscript is Paul going around declaring that people beneath him are his sons -

He does express in possibly one or two passages that he feel like a literal physical paternal father to those he is bringing to Christ - but all of the passages are changed, altered and manipulated to invent and create a different message that places Paul making claims that these are HIS SONS instead of what the manuscripts are saying - Paul is saying these are sons unto God……

I can prove this in every single verse…..

The KJV was directly Copied from the Roman Catholic Douay Rheims - it is nearly a duplicate copy exactly word for word - nearly exactly.
 
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theefaith

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Yes theefaith

Anything you say or claim is ok with me.

You can pray to Mary and make a new idol of her every day of your life and bow down and kiss and caress the idol every single day -

This is all ok with me - I would even defend your right and stand by your side to assist and enable you to in any way you needed - until you have the complete freedom to perform this religious faith with ease and you can even profit from spreading your faith.

i would help you protect your property and money.

It is ok with me -

idols are forbidden only the one true Creator God may be worshiped
First commandment
Veneration and honor and images are biblical