So you NEVER ask forgiveness? Wow! How did you accomplish what John couldn't?
1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?
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1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
How is it that you answer my question with a question? Are you another who claims to NEVER asks forgiveness for your sins?
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Let's not pretend the "Sabbath" day didn't exist until Moses, OK? Exodus 20:11 KJV plainly says the day that the Lord blessed in Eden was called the "Sabbath" day: "...and rested the seventh day, wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."
2 Chronicles 17:27 KJV proves the "Sabbath" had to have been blessed in Eden - not at Sinai - because what God blesses is sufficiently blessed forever.
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If you think Deuteronomy 4:13 KJV is saying God's Law is the Old Covenant, go to Romans 3:31 KJV and try replacing "law" with "Old Covenant" and let me know what you think.
Ahhhhhhh, so how do we clear up this theological confusion? By properly understanding what Deuteronomy 4:13 KJV means:
A component of a thing is not the thing itself -- the Ten Commandments were one component of the Old Covenant which God commanded them to perform as their obligation, and God's promise of blessing was the other component which He would perform as His obligation.
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Yes, and I've shown you that Hebrews 4 uses "kataposis" over and over, but verse 9 specifically and deliberately uses "Sabbatismos" which is why Lamsa is correct in his translation, "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath day."
So, why are you refusing to do your duty? Is not keeping the Sabbath and the rest of the Ten Commandments what Solomon said was the "whole duty" of man?
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Sorry, here's a TON of Scripture proving the Biblical distinction between the Mosaic Law and the Moral Law. Now, I'm not interested in what you think are "proof texts" like your "law of Moses is one law" text (which law IS one law, for it was the one of the two which was written by the hand of Moses and was nailed to the Cross, while the other law God wrote will "stand fast forever and ever"). Please show where these verses fail to make such a distinction, and we'll talk.
Moral Law Distinct From The Mosaic Law
The Mosaic Law was written by the hand of Moses, written on scrolls, placed outside the Ark, and was against them by virtue of the penalties and curses contained therein (Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV)....
...but in contrast, the Ten Commandment Law of God was written with His finger (Exodus 31:18 KJV), on both sides of stone tablets (Exodus 32:15 KJV), placed inside the Ark (Exodus 25:16 KJV), and contained blessings, not curses (Exodus 20:11 KJV; Exodus 20:12 KJV).
In 2 Kings 21:8 KJV, God promises Israel permanent residence if they keep His Law and the Mosaic law.
In 2 Chronicles 33:8 KJV, God promises the same if they will obey His Law and the Mosaic Law.
In Daniel 9:11KJV, he confessed that his people disobeyed the God's Law and the Mosaic Law.
In Deuteronomy 4:13-14 KJV, Moses says God commanded the people to keep His Law and commanded Moses to give them the Mosaic Law to keep.
In Leviticus 23:37-38 KJV, God said the annual Feast Day sabbaths of the Jews in the Mosaic Law were "besides" the weekly Sabbaths of the Lord contained in the Ten Commandments.
In Romans 7:12 KJV, Paul refers to God's Law (identified as such by his reference to the Tenth Commandment in Romans 7:7 KJV) as "holy, just, and good", but refers to the Mosaic Law concerning the Levitical priesthood as a "carnal" commandment in Hebrews 7:16 KJV
The Ten Commandments existed before Mount Sinai: Cain knew murder was wrong; Abraham knew lying was wrong; Abraham also kept God's "charge, commandments, statutes, and laws"; Rachel knew stealing was wrong; Jacob knew idolatry in the form of jewelry was wrong; Joseph knew adultery was wrong; and God chided with the children of Israel in Exodus 16:28 KJV for not keeping "My Laws" because they broke the Sabbath Commandment before they even got anywhere near Mount Sinai in chapter 20.
Paul says in Galatians 3:19 KJV that the Mosaic Law was "added because of transgression" -- transgression of an already existing law: the Ten Commandments -- "until the Seed should come". When Jesus was crucified, the Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross with Him (Colossians 2:14-17 KJV) while the Ten Commandments will "stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7:8 KJV).
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Jesus said Himself... Abide in Me, the Vine. The result of abiding is a natural progression. Fruit. It isn't something we need to strive to produce... Work to develop... Or go about feeding, nurturing, or pruning the vine. No, that's God's work. Our responsibility is to abide... Remain attached. And trust. He has promised to bring us home.
Along the way come trials and temptations. Joys and sorrows. Failures and successes. Misdirections, bumpy roads, smooth sailing. Life is never boring, but it's always challenging. And we never stand still. We don't hover, stall, idle, or become becalmed. If we don't progress forward, of we don't grow, we drift in the tide. So Jesus made promises so we don't drift. Hunger and thirst for righteousness, and be filled. Love Me, you'll keep my commandments (bear fruits of righteousness). Read and trust My words, for they accomplish that for which they are sent. To the law and to the testimony, if others speak from another source, don't trust them. I will never, never, forsake you.
So yes. You are correct. Salvation is conditional on abiding. The inevitable result of abiding is fruits of the spirit, character. As well as obedience. That same Spirit guides, leads, teaches, corrects, instructs in righteousness, but, and it's a big but, the Spirit will never ever contradict scripture. If the Spirit instructs you in matters of righteousness, the scriptures will confirm this. So we have a double witness.
This for me was so in my acceptance of the Sabbath. There came a time for me when I needed to get back to basics. To the beginning. To start afresh. This came after a period of backsliding in which I had reverted to some of my old ways and habits, but never stopped believing. But my life was falling apart as a result. I wanted change. I needed change. But I wanted truth. Deep untarnished truth. Whatever the cost.
"Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness". What is your righteousness?
KJV Psalms 15:1-2
1 LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
I wanted to be that guy.
KJV Psalms 23:3-5
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Yes,!! Thank you Lord! Thank you for your promises. Take my life Father, grant me grace and mercy and your mind and heart.
KJV Psalms 119:142
142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
KJV Psalms 119:172-176
172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.
174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me.
176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.
Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day...
Faith led to Christ. Christ led me to His law. The rest was easy.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
1 John 1:8-9 is a sinner becoming a Christian comparable to Acts of the Apostles 2:38. How many times must you become a Christian? How many times must you be baptized? How many times can you repent to receive the Holy Spirit? It is your old sins prior to becoming a Christian that are cleansed, 2 Peter 1:9. Unfortunately you don't know how the newbirth makes you empowered to no longer desire to sin. So are you born again or not?
...and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. 1 John 3:9
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Because it was the sign of the Old Covenant Law, and we have a new sign for the New Covenant that supersedes the old sign. Plus the context of the REST OF chapter 4 points to a different concept rather than the 7th day, but TODAY, meaning everyday. And not a physical rest, but a spiritual rest.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Your theory of temporary Mosaic law written on parchments separate from eternal commandments written on stone, with parchments only nailed to the cross rests on 2 things:
1. The commandments written on stone are eternal moral law of blessing only for the people, not cursing against us, were placed in the ark
2. The book of Mosaic law was penalty and curses against us and was placed beside and outside the ark and nailed to the cross.
1. The tables of stone in the ark were called the ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor 3) as opposed to the ministry of Christ.
2. The law written on parchments was placed in the ark (Ex 25:21-22), in the side of the ark (Deut 31:24), beside the tables of stone, not beside the ark.
3. The law and commandments engraven in stone (Ex 24:12) that were in the ark were all done away with their glory (2 Cor 3:11).
You have refused to acknowledge these Scriptures proving your theory false, and then just said 'sorry' and repeated the same false 'proofs' as before. You are finished as a person to be taken seriously in matters of Scripture and law of God.
In addition:
You also err in saying the 1st tables of stone, written by the Lord Himself, were placed in the ark. But they were broken by Moses, and Moses was then commanded to hew new tables of stone (Ex 34:1), and he did the writing of the law and commandments on them, not God. (Ex 34:28)
You are sloppy with Scripture at best and lying against Scripture at worst.
Sorry? Yes, you are.
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Please read Galatians 3:19 KJV verrrrrrrrrrrry slooooooooowly and then you'll understand there is MORE than one law: "It (the law)........was added.......because of transgression.......until the Seed should come."
CAN YOU SEE THE TWO LAWS YET? NO? OK, THEN I'LL SHOW YOU:
"It (the Mosaic Law) was added (to the already existing Ten Commandments) because of transgression (transgression of the already existing Ten Commandments) until the Seed should come (where the added Mosaic Law would be nailed to the Cross).
Can you see now how the Mosaic law was added to God's Law and would exist until the Cross, when the Mosaic law would be abolished? That's why I keep telling you stubborn people that we are free to disregard the Mosaic Law of circumcision, Passover, etc., but we will never be at liberty to disregard "don't steal, don't lie, or keep the Sabbath day holy, which Christians will be keeping for all eternity!
J. N. Darby was seduced by the Jesuit Order and his false Dispensational ideas have no business anywhere near the Scriptures.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
"It is your old sins prior to becoming a Christian that are cleansed, 2 Peter 1:9. Unfortunately you don't know how the newbirth makes you empowered to no longer desire to sin. So are you born again or not?"
So, if you are really born again, then all your sins are old and cleansed away and forgiven and you sin no more...
And so, all sins past, present, and future are not forgiven at the cross, because there are no more present and future sins.
Therefore, the correct doctrine of 'once saved always saved' is all past sins are forgiven at the cross (Rom 3:25), and everyone really born again goes forth and sins no more, even as Jesus commanded the adulteress.
That is actual Scripture, and what you ought preach. Likewise acknowledge that any committing actual sin are really not saved. And the faults were to confess to one another (James 5) are not really sins, or if they are sins, then we are really acknowledging we are not saved to one another. And if a man sins, then he can confess his sin, and the Lord is faithful to forgive the sin and save him.
And so, all the Scriptures warning against falling from grace, and returning to the old sins of the mire, and needing to keep the faith of Jesus and not letting it slip, and beware of not abiding in the Vine, etc...are just for those sinners not really born again, and their confession of faith at one time was only a profession of the mouth, and not of the heart.
And those that have actually tasted of the heavenly gift and were once enlightened, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost (Heb 6), if they shall fall away and crucify Christ afresh in an open shame?
Did they not really taste? or did they taste but not swallow down? or did they partake only but not take hold of completely?
And they fall away from the side of the mount, because they never went to the top?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Past sins are forgiven. Present and future sins are prevented by Jesus, Himself in you.
Your argument reminds me of Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Very good. You believe once saved and sin no more.
And those who have tasted the heavenly gift and fall away? The branch that does not abide on the vine?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Once truly saved, yes. Many go to church every week, and yet love darkness the rest of the week. I was like that for the first 30 years of going to church, BEFORE I was born again. What a difference the Holy Spirit makes!
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Come ye unto me all you who do labor and are weary and ye shall find REST for your souls .
For my burden is light and my yoke is easy . LET the KING be praised . Put up the hands and rejoice in the glorious Lord .
Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?
OP ^
A man IN Christ, CAN NEVER, Lie, Steal, Fornicate, STAND "AGAINST" the Lord God Almighty.
THAT IS THE BEAUTY of Gods Offering and Acceptance of His Gifts that Makes a man WHOLE and sealed unto only Him Forever.
The "cunning Deception" that Gods Offered and Received Salvation is a WAY to Receive a "License" to lie, steal, fornicate...
IS Corrupt and Ludicrous.
Men "require" no License to lie, steal, fornicate... A natural man IS born in sin, IS naturally born without Knowledge Of God, IS naturally born AGAINST God.
* IS naturally born WITHOUT ALL Knowledge.
Conversion of a man, DOES NOT gift the man WITH;
ALL KNOWLEDGE.
Men IN Christ, still have a natural body, natural mindful thoughts, natural actions;
AND
BECAUSE they do NOT HAVE ALL KNOWLEDGE, absolutely they CAN and DO lie, steal, fornicate...
AGAINST OTHER MEN...
It is called "TRESPASSING".
Men IN Christ are "PERFECTED IN Christ". They themselves are NOT "perfect" while still in their flesh body's. They naturally Error, Trespass against other men...
* AND;
the Word of God notifies and teaches men ...
HOW TO:
RIGHT/Correct a TRESPASS of man Against man.
* AND;
HOW TO; LEAN ON GOD, FOR ongoing Understanding for a man to continually stop trespassing against men.
Glory to God,
Taken
OP ^
A man IN Christ, CAN NEVER, Lie, Steal, Fornicate, STAND "AGAINST" the Lord God Almighty.
THAT IS THE BEAUTY of Gods Offering and Acceptance of His Gifts that Makes a man WHOLE and sealed unto only Him Forever.
The "cunning Deception" that Gods Offered and Received Salvation is a WAY to Receive a "License" to lie, steal, fornicate...
IS Corrupt and Ludicrous.
Men "require" no License to lie, steal, fornicate... A natural man IS born in sin, IS naturally born without Knowledge Of God, IS naturally born AGAINST God.
* IS naturally born WITHOUT ALL Knowledge.
Conversion of a man, DOES NOT gift the man WITH;
ALL KNOWLEDGE.
Men IN Christ, still have a natural body, natural mindful thoughts, natural actions;
AND
BECAUSE they do NOT HAVE ALL KNOWLEDGE, absolutely they CAN and DO lie, steal, fornicate...
AGAINST OTHER MEN...
It is called "TRESPASSING".
Men IN Christ are "PERFECTED IN Christ". They themselves are NOT "perfect" while still in their flesh body's. They naturally Error, Trespass against other men...
* AND;
the Word of God notifies and teaches men ...
HOW TO:
RIGHT/Correct a TRESPASS of man Against man.
* AND;
HOW TO; LEAN ON GOD, FOR ongoing Understanding for a man to continually stop trespassing against men.
Glory to God,
Taken
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I disagree. I believe a born again Spirit filled Christian can do all of those things... But he won't. Just because one becomes a Christian, doesn't mean he loses his power to choose. But being a new creature, a child of God, he shall always choose that which is right. Hence the absolute necessity to abide in the Vine. Because once we cease to abide, and are fit only for the fire, having no life following from God to keep us sane and sensible and righteous, then we are capable of anything.
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Where in the world did you get the idea that Christ came to change the Sabbath, when He Himself said not one jot or tittle shall pass from it until the heaven and Earth pass?
"My covenant will I not break nor alter the thing that is gone from My lips." -- Psalms 84:34 KJV
IOW, "My covenant (our agreement that I will bless you if you obey Me) shall I not break nor alter the thing that is gone from My lip (the Ten Commandments)."
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