What's in a Word

Duckybill · Feb 23, 2011

Dave Jones said:
Just careful not to give wrong answers

Well then, let's try again.

I wrote:
"Since you deny Jesus/God and Hell please tell us DJ, just what is your religion? JW? Mormon? SDA? Fill us in."

You wrote:
Can't get much more Divine than that.

I wrote:
"As in THE Creator?"

Colossians 1:16 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]FOR BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.

jacobtaylor · Feb 23, 2011

Dave Jones said:
I apologize for avoiding your question but Duckey has been keeping me busy.

I would like to address your question if you will clarify what you feel the relationship is between Yahweh,(Gen 18), and Jesus Christ?

I'm trying to expand the application of your definition.
You on the other hand want to focus on your singular passage then apply that to the rest of scripture. This is done my many people to support a particular interpretation. The truth isn't found in applying your single definition to the whole of scripture, but instead comparing other scripture with it to see if it is so.

As for my understanding of LORD in Gen 18. I can produce numerous old and new testament writings that no man has seen God. So who is LORD in Gen 18? To me it can only be Jesus before he humbled himself in the likeness and weakness of man, and being born from a virgin. Thats what I mean about comparing scripture. Jesus said he was the I Am. Abraham met this I Am in the image he chose to make man in. Let us make man in our own image. You can create an entire church and doctrine around a single passage like Matthew 16:18 for example. It looks as thou you are doing the same.

Heres a definition, the self-Existent or Eternal
3068 Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw' from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:--Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069.

Duckybill · Feb 23, 2011

Jacob T said:
I can produce numerous old and new testament writings that no man has seen God. So who is LORD in Gen 18? To me it can only be Jesus before he humbled himself in the likeness and weakness of man, and being born from a virgin.

You are absolutely correct! Those who deny Jesus/God do not have proof. They just fight it hard because they don't believe it. As WIG confessed, the Bible does teach that the Son is God.

Hebrews 1:8 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

dfj · Feb 23, 2011

Jacob T said:
I'm trying to expand the application of your definition.
You on the other hand want to focus on your singular passage then apply that to the rest of scripture. This is done my many people to support a particular interpretation. The truth isn't found in applying your single definition to the whole of scripture, but instead comparing other scripture with it to see if it is so.

Actually, thats not correct, the Johnian 1 passages are just part of a larger contextual project that seeks NOT to decontextualize the concept of who Jesus is.

Regarding our LORD Jesus Christ, we have 3 concepts to deal with:

1- Who was Jesus prior to His incarnation as the SON of God, (corporeal or incorporeal)
2- Who was Jesus between His birth and His resurrection, (The Father being still in heaven and Jesus communicating with Him).
3- Who is Jesus now, (corporeal or incorporeal)

Jacob T said:
As for my understanding of LORD in Gen 18. I can produce numerous old and new testament writings that no man has seen God. So who is LORD in Gen 18? To me it can only be Jesus before he humbled himself in the likeness and weakness of man, and being born from a virgin.

Or a theophany

dfj · Feb 23, 2011

Duckybill said:
You are absolutely correct! Those who deny Jesus/God do not have proof. They just fight it hard because they don't believe it. As WIG confessed, the Bible does teach that the Son is God.

Hebrews 1:8 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

I guess the Jews were right when they thought that some Christians worship 2 Gods, or 3.

For me, Sh'ma Yisrael, ( ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד ), "Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is one". Then again, I 'm monotheistic!

dfj · Feb 23, 2011

Jacob T said:
Heres a definition, the self-Existent or Eternal
3068 Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw' from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:--Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069.

Premise 1: God exists, in essence and in substance, as Spirit
Premise 2: The Holy Spirit exists, in essence and in substance, as Spirit
Conclusion: God and the Holy Spirit are one and the same, "One", in essence and substance as Spirit.

Would you agree?

jacobtaylor · Feb 23, 2011

Thanks for avoiding the question again. I can tell your an educated man, educated men are taught not to engage in topics they can't answer comfortably. You have a point to make and facts to the contrary can not be entertained. Have fun in your own little world Dr. I tried to have a conversation with you but your to busy entertaining yourself. <br>

Duckybill · Feb 23, 2011

Dave Jones said:
I guess the Jews were right when they thought that some Christians worship 2 Gods, or 3.

For me, Sh'ma Yisrael, (

Dave Jones said:
ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד ), "Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is one". Then again, I 'm monotheistic!

I just checked 18 English translations. They all agree the Son is God.

Hebrews 1:8 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

dfj · Feb 23, 2011

Duckybill said:
I just checked 18 English translations. They all agree the Son is God.

Hebrews 1:8 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

So, you're polytheistic?

Heb 10:5-7; Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. Then I said, 'Here I am-it is written about me in the scroll-
I have come to do your will, O God.'"

dfj · Feb 23, 2011

Duckybill said:
I just checked 18 English translations. They all agree the Son is God.

Would anyone who is monotheistic care to hazard a guess as what they think the translators meant by this?

Duckybill · Feb 23, 2011

Dave Jones said:
So, you're polytheistic?

Heb 10:5-7; Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. Then I said, 'Here I am-it is written about me in the scroll-
I have come to do your will, O God.'"

Nope, just one God. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Genesis 1:26 (NKJV)
[sup]26 [/sup]Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

dfj · Feb 23, 2011

Duckybill said:
Nope, just one God. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So you're not really saying that God the Father is "GOD" and Jesus is "GOD"?

Or that there are three separate beings in the Godhead?

Duckybill · Feb 23, 2011

Dave Jones said:
Would anyone who is monotheistic care to hazard a guess as what they think the translators meant by this?

All of these references to GOD are the exact same Greek word that GOD called His Son. The Son is THE ONE TRUE GOD. In verse 9 GOD again calls His Son GOD.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (NKJV)[sup]
1 [/sup]GOD, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, [sup]2 [/sup]has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:8 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup] But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O GOD, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

Hebrews 1:9 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore GOD, Your GOD, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."

Hebrews 3:4 (NKJV)
[sup]4 [/sup]For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is GOD.

Hebrews 4:12 (NKJV)
[sup]12 [/sup]For the word of GOD is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hebrews 6:13 (NKJV)
[sup]13 [/sup]For when GOD made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,

Hebrews 8:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their GOD, and they shall be My people.

Dave Jones said:
So you're not really saying that God the Father is "GOD" and Jesus is "GOD"?

Or that there are three separate beings in the Godhead?

Oh please. Playing dumb?

dfj · Feb 23, 2011

Duckybill said:
All of these references to GOD are the exact same Greek word that GOD called His Son. .

Yes, "Theos"

If The Father was referring to His Son as "THE ONE TRUE GOD", it would be "Ton Theon", or Ho Theos, not just Theos.

You can't have it both ways, you can't claim that God "The" Father is "THE ONE TRUE GOD" and at the same time say that Jesus Christ is "THE ONE TRUE GOD".

There can only be "ONE TRUE GOD"

Luke 11:1-2; "...one of his disciples said to Jesus, "Lord, teach us to pray,...He said to them, "When you pray, say: "'Father, hallowed be your name..."
Matthew 6:8-9; "...your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. "This, then, is how you should pray:"'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name..."

Incidentally, I agree when you see our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ, you see The Father, for The Theos of The Father is in The Son.

Duckybill · Feb 23, 2011

Dave Jones said:
You can't have it both ways, you can't claim that God "The" Father is "THE ONE TRUE GOD" and at the same time say that Jesus Christ is"THE ONE TRUE GOD".

Yes I can "claim" it, because the Bible does.

There can only be "ONE TRUE GOD"

And He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All part of THE ONE TRUE GOD.

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
[sup]19 [/sup]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

So then, why are you not answering my questions about your religion? Hiding something?

dfj · Feb 23, 2011

Duckybill said:
And He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So, you are saying, that Jesus Christ is Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Duckybill · Feb 23, 2011

Dave Jones said:
So, you are saying, that Jesus Christ is Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Lord have mercy! If you haven't understood by now you may never. You are playing dumb. There are many who believe in the One True God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Have you lived in a vacuum?

dfj · Feb 23, 2011

Duckybill said:
There are many who believe in the One True God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So do I.

But you did say, "And He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Duckybill · Feb 23, 2011

Dave Jones said:
So do I.

But you did say, "And He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

You're beginning to sound just like a troll DJ.

dfj · Feb 23, 2011

Duckybill said:
You're beginning to sound just like a troll DJ.

I think we are done here my friend.

What's in a Word

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