Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

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Michiah-Imla

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I could be making around 1,000 bucks overtime today on a fiber optic work project, but I have faith that the blessing that is in every weekly Sabbath day rest for those who choose to be obedient Christians far outweighs that and all the riches of this world.

That’s commendable.

I will continue to consider this topic as I pour over the scriptures.
 

robert derrick

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The words of the covenant written on stone were commanded by God, which Moses gave in commandment to the people. These writings were the law and commandments given by God to Moses to teach to the people, as well as judgments, summed up in saying this commandment I command thee.

All the law and commandments and judgements written for the people are one commandment, this commandment. And Scripture confirms that the old covenant was the law of a carnal commandment. (Heb 7:16)


There is no separation between law, commandments, statutes, and judgments of God. All were given by God to Moses to teach to the people, that they may be blessed. The curses of this commandment of the Covenant was for God's enemies, and the blessings of the law of commandment was for them that obey. The heathen therefore were enemies by disobedience in ignorance, and the children of Israel could make themselves selves such and worse by willful disobedience. (Deut 30:1,7)

It is the judgments that are called true and righteous altogether (Psalms 19:9). The same judgments given by God with His commandment. They are all true and righteous, and are altogether as one law of Covenant.

The covenant, the law, the commandment, the priesthood, the ark were all of one making for one people. When one is made old to vanish away, all are made old to vanish away: Covenant, law, commandment, priesthood, ark, people. And they were all spiritual and holy in nature from God as being right and true altogether, and they were carnal in that they were given specially to a physical seed on earth to be obeyed outwardly, without regard to the heart. So long as they were kept outwardly, they could not be judged guilty.

Later in the Psalms and the prophets was the inward obedience called upon to prepare the way of the Lord, but not until Christ and His covenant is the law of the Spirit made for believers, written in the hearts and commanded in the Spirit, with works of faith following.

No more carnal commandments such as Sabbath and Circumcision are commandment to those in Christ. We have no carnal commandments demanding certain physical obedience on certain days or in prescribed physical manner, except to love God and one another, and to do good from the heart with faith and so fulfill all the law of Christ and of God.

No more carnal ordinances of touch not, taste not, handle not, nor judgment of days, times, new moons and Sabbaths.

As before the law and commandments of the old covenant, so also now after their vanishing as law and commandment, any may by example of the Lord have a 7th day of rest in His honor by faith, not by commandment of law. Those who bow down to the Sabbath as law have no honor with Jesus Christ, by obeying a carnal commandment, that He has not commanded for His people in His Spirit.
 

Michiah-Imla

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No more carnal commandments such as Sabbath and Circumcision are commandment to those in Christ.

We have no carnal commandments demanding certain physical obedience on certain days or in prescribed physical manner, except to love God and one another

No more carnal ordinances of touch not, taste not, handle not, nor judgment of days, times, new moons and Sabbaths

That is all scripturally sound.

Much of what you say comes right out of the New Testament.

But perhaps we could practice these precepts amongst weaker brethren as well?:

"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men." (Romans 14:14-18)
 

robert derrick

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we are introduced into one aspect of the law, the “ordinances.” Now, is this the same as the law of Ten Commandments?

1. The whole law of commandments contained in ordinances, and have been abolished in the flesh of Jesus upon the cross and nailed to the cross and blotted out (Eph 2)(Col 2): this handwriting is the law of commandments given by God to Moses in the mount and in the cloudy pillar of the tabernacle.

2. Firstly we were 'introduced' to the 7th day High Passover feast of deliverance out of Egypt, which was first made by an ordinance, before ever being 'introduced' any commandment of the Sabbath given by God.

The entire religion of God for the congregation of Israel, by which He would make His covenant, was first ordained by an ordinance, which preceded the law and commandments written on stone.

The greatest Sabbath of all, called the High Sabbath is an ordinance, The ordinance of the 7th day Passover. Is that the same as the law of the 10 commandments. Yes, and predated it, and defined the whole nation of Israel in the Old Covenant.

3. The statutes and judgments God commanded His people to keep, that they not commit the abominations of the heathen, were called altogether by God mine ordinance. (Lev 18)

4. The ordinance of the Passover was commanded to be kept as one ordinance for both stranger and those born in the land, exactly as the Lord commanded there should be one law for both. (Num 9)(Ex 12) Ordinance and law the same altogether, which included the Passover Sabbath and all commandments and judgments and statutes given by God.

5. Solomon's building of the house of the Lord for His service on Sabbaths, new moons, and solemn feasts was called an ordinance to Israel. The exact same service to God we are no longer to judge one another by in Christ. (Col 2:16) And is the only place that the apostles wrote of for 'Sabbath keeping' in the Covenant of Christ.

5. Rebellious Israel transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, and broke the everlasting covenant of God, showing that law, ordinance, and covenant were altogether one. And them as a blessed nation obedient to God, forsake not His ordinance and ask of Him for ordinances of Justice, showing that the whole nation of blessing is by His ordinance with ordinances of Justice, not just of ritual services. (Is 24, 58)

The whole notion of dividing up the law of the Covenant by God to Moses is completely false, except we place a Passover ordinance above any law or commandment, and ordinances of justice above the judgments from the mount.

The only reason such a division and separation of God's One whole law, is to justify a carnal commandment not written by the apostles for believers in Jesus. If any 'aspect' of the law is done away, all the law and its' 'aspects' are done away, and if any 'aspect' of the law is kept as law, the all the 'aspects' of the law must be kept.

And this division of law and commandment and ordinance is the source of division in the body of Christ, which Paul would that they be cut off (Gal 5:12). And they are cut off, having separated themselves unto themselves, having not the Spirit of Christ, but only left with a law and carnal ordinance of Sabbath.

(Am I the only one that at least does a word search before trying to push a doctrine on others?)
 

Gregory

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That is all scripturally sound.

Much of what you say comes right out of the New Testament.

But perhaps we could practice these precepts amongst weaker brethren as well?:

"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men." (Romans 14:14-18)
IOW if someone wants to believe that Sabbath worship is good, let him worship on the Sabbath. Do not discourage one from worshipping on the Sabbath.

For the kingdom of God is not whether we worship on the Sabbath or not, but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Thank you for your insight, that was helpful.
 

CharismaticLady

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You are wrong. Phoneman is totally correct.
In Colossians 2:14 we are introduced into one aspect of the law, the “ordinances.” Now, is this the same as the law of Ten Commandments? Not according to the bible:

Hebrews 9:1
(1) Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

Unto the first covenant was added “ordinances,” which were ceremonies needed to be performed by the Israelites and the priests. This is called “ceremonial laws.” So Paul begins his discussion of the law with respect to the ordinances of the law, not the entire law itself. Hebrews 9, verses 1 through 9 explain what those ordinances were, and he concludes them all as being “carnal ordinances” –verse 10. The law of God, however, is not carnal, but spiritual:

Romans 7:14
(14) For I know that the law is spiritual…”

He is therefore not speaking about the spiritual law of 10 Commandments, but of the carnal ordinances added to the law “because of transgressions” –Galatians 3:19. It is no wonder that Paul then specifies those ordinances in verse 21, saying, “why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, touch not, taste not, handle not…” Such requirements are once again echoed by Paul as ordinances of the ceremonial law in Hebrews 9:

Hebrews 9:10
(10) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Further evidence of this is in his use of the word “handwriting.” The greek word translated “handwriting” is “cheirographon” and it literally means “something written by hand.” Now God did not write the 10 Commandments by hand, but by finger:

Exodus 31:18
(18) And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Moses, however, wrote with his “hand” the ordinances found in the book of the law:

2 Chronicles 33:8
(8) Neither will I anymore remove the foor of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law, and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

There is more detail and more points to be made regarding this, but the above should be sufficient to blunt your ill founded assertions.

I'm not trying to make you stop keeping the Sabbath, yourself. But you do already know that you'll have to keep it by the letter of the law perfectly, and most of you don't. I keep the spiritual meaning of the Sabbath that in no way follows the letter of the law. I just want you and @Phoneman777 to know that and stop condemning me and others who know more about the New Covenant than you do. You have just simply added Jesus to the Old Covenant Ten Commandments. They and the ceremonial laws and sacrifices are obsolete. But we still can't marry our sister. Nor can we remarry after divorce while our spouse is still living. Nor fornicate, have sex with animals, or any of the other laws written outside the Ten Commandments. It is only they which are the Covenant. Ex. 34:28. Those have been replaced by the Royal law they were similar to and spiritual, but could never make anyone righteous as they were merely the letter or outside actions and not of the inner heart.
 
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Gregory

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I'm not trying to make you stop keeping the Sabbath, yourself. But you do already know that you'll have to keep it by the letter of the law perfectly, and most of you don't. I keep the spiritual meaning of the Sabbath that in no way follows the letter of the law. I just want you and @Phoneman777 to know that and stop condemning me and others who know more about the New Covenant than you do. You have just simply added Jesus to the Old Covenant Ten Commandments. They and the ceremonial laws and sacrifices are obsolete. But we still can't marry our sister. Nor can we remarry after divorce while our spouse is still living. Nor fornicate, have sex with animals, or any of the other laws written outside the Ten Commandments. It is only they which are the Covenant. Ex. 34:28. Those have been replaced by the Royal law they were similar to, but could never make anyone righteous as they were merely the letter or actions and not of the heart.
Can you tell me the difference in keeping the letter of the Sabbath vs keeping the Spirit of the Sabbath?
 

CharismaticLady

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Can you tell me the difference in keeping the letter of the Sabbath vs keeping the Spirit of the Sabbath?

The letter of the Sabbath is physical and kept of the flesh and had to be learned. Rest meant physical rest, no work. Many Christians call Sunday the Sabbath and make Sunday of the flesh, and they are clueless. The Sabbath is still the 7th day, not the1st. Sunday is a day of celebration, not law. But it is not God's Rest either.

The spiritual rest of God is of the heart. The Royal law is Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit, and love your neighbor as yourself. This is why Jesus said we must be born again. That is being baptized of the Holy Spirit, where the Holy Spirit is no longer on the outside drawing you, but inside empowering you to not sin, and the Royal Law is written on your heart/conscience. This Rest of God is abiding in Him, and He in us. Total trust and obedience to His ways.

1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

We do not have to learn about God. We have Him intimately, becoming one. John 17. He gives us His glory so that we can be glorified in this life, becoming more and more like Christ. And He has given us the mind of Christ.
 
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Desire Of All Nations

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IOW if someone wants to believe that Sabbath worship is good, let him worship on the Sabbath. Do not discourage one from worshipping on the Sabbath.

For the kingdom of God is not whether we worship on the Sabbath or not, but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Thank you for your insight, that was helpful.
Christ said whoever expects eternal life had better keep God's commandments in Matt. 19:17, so the Bible disagrees with you when you say keeping the Sabbath is optional. As John said, a person is a liar if they say they know God while refusing to keep His commandments. And liars will have no place in God's kingdom.
 

Phoneman777

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What is done away with is the covenant of the flesh, not righteousness. True righteousness has been infused in us by Jesus placing His Spirit within us. Romans 8:1-9 (the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life)

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
What also is not done away with is God's Ten Commandments - unlike the Mosaic Law of circumcision and animal sacrifices which has been nailed to the Cross...because it's OK to go without being circumcised but it will never be OK with God to worship Satan, engage in idolatry, blaspheme, OR BREAK THE SABBATH.
 

Gregory

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The letter of the Sabbath is physical and kept of the flesh and had to be learned. Rest meant physical rest, no work. Many Christians call Sunday the Sabbath and make Sunday of the flesh, and they are clueless. The Sabbath is still the 7th day, not the1st. Sunday is a day of celebration, not law. But it is not God's Rest either.

The spiritual rest of God is of the heart. The Royal law is Love God with all your strength, mind and spirit, and love your neighbor as yourself. This is why Jesus said we must be born again. That is being baptized of the Holy Spirit, where the Holy Spirit is no longer on the outside drawing you, but inside empowering you to not sin, and the Royal Law is written on your heart/conscience. This Rest of God is abiding in Him, and He in us. Total trust and obedience to His ways.

1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

We do not have to learn about God. We have Him intimately, becoming one. John 17. He gives us His glory so that we can be glorified in this life, becoming more and more like Christ. And He has given us the mind of Christ.
So the Spirit of the law does not make us go in the flesh to a building to worship? Is that correct?

But if I feel like going to church and worshipping in a building, is that OK or am I actually sinning?
 

Gregory

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Christ said whoever expects eternal life had better keep God's commandments in Matt. 19:17, so the Bible disagrees with you when you say keeping the Sabbath is optional. As John said, a person is a liar if they say they know God while refusing to keep His commandments. And liars will have no place in God's kingdom.
I personally believe in the Sabbath, and I attend every week. So according to you, I will be OK.
 

Brakelite

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I keep the spiritual meaning of the Sabbath that in no way follows the letter of the law.
Sort of like keeping the spirit of the 6th commandment which allows you to be a serial killer? So long as you don't get angry, therefore you can ignore the letter of the law?
The letter of the Sabbath is physical and kept of the flesh and had to be learned. Rest meant physical rest, no work.
As Phoneman says below...we are to rest on Sabbath as God did.
I've stated it many times: it's the rest in Jesus, which Hebrews 4:10 KJV we demonstrate by resting every seventh day Sabbath from our work "as God did from His".

Questions:
a. Where is the text that says God unblessed the Sabbath day? See 1 Chron. 17:27
b. Luke, in writing his gospel decades later says in Luke 23:56 "according to the commandment". How come they kept and observed the Sabbath according to the commandment if it was no longer a commandment?
c. Why is it that none of the gospel writers, every one of whom penned their work decades after the resurrection, know less about the covenants and the law than you do seeing none of them spoke of any new day of worship or the abolition of the Sabbath day?
d. If the old covenant law that needed to be replaced because it was faulty, are you saying the Tec Commandments which God Himself wrote on stone, was faulty?
You didn't actually respond to any of the points I've been making, but simply regurgitating your own, so maybe you could answer the above with some semblance of Biblical relevance?
 
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CharismaticLady

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What also is not done away with is God's Ten Commandments - unlike the Mosaic Law of circumcision and animal sacrifices which has been nailed to the Cross...because it's OK to go without being circumcised but it will never be OK with God to worship Satan, engage in idolatry, blaspheme, OR BREAK THE SABBATH.
All of Leviticus 23 are ceremonial; the substance of all of them, including when the Creator rested, is fulfilled in Christ and His LOVE.

All of those is Leviticus 23 are kept by the letter. You cannot kept the 7th day Sabbath from instinct, only by rules of the letter of the law, which I doubt you keep anyway.
 

CharismaticLady

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If we are knowingly breaking the Fourth Commandment, we are not doing God's will - "If ye love Me, keep My commandments" and it was Jesus Who spoke His Ten Commandments at Sinai, according to Psalms 78:1-2 KJV and Matthew 13:34-35 KJV.

If you love ME keep MY commandments. What did He teach?

1. Believe in Me.
2. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

1 John 3:23-24 verified that those are the New Covenant commandments. "If ye love Me, keep My commandments" was written by John, so he knew beyond doubt what Christ meant.