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whirlwind

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Yesterday's headlines.....
Dictator on the run: Gaddafi may have fled Libya already and be on his way to Venezuela, says Foreign Secretary William Hague


Today's news....



Libyan turmoil weighs on stocks as oil surges


Libyan violence weighs on stocks as oil prices spike; New Zealand quake shakes currency




Pan Pylas, AP Business Writer, On Tuesday February 22, 2011, 11:49 am


LONDON (AP) -- Mounting concerns over Libya's violent crisis weighed on stocks Tuesday and sent oil prices surging, while the earthquake in the New Zealand city of Christchurch pushed the country's currency sharply lower.

With deep rifts opening up in Moammar Gadhafi's regime, air force pilots defecting and a bloody crackdown in the capital of Tripoli, investors are fretting over how the crisis will end and what the impact on the North African country's oil production will be.

Libya is the world's 18th largest oil producer, pumping out around 1.8 million barrels a day, or a little under 2 percent of global daily output. The OPEC country also sits atop the biggest oil reserves in the whole of Africa. With so much uncertainty surrounding a large chunk of the world's daily oil production, market prices surged. Benchmark crude for March delivery was up $4.80 a barrel, or 5.6 percent, at $92.55 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Earlier, it had it had been even higher above $94 a barrel.

(snip)

A powerful earthquake in the New Zealand city of Christchurch also rattled markets in the region. The quake occurred in the middle of the workday, toppled tall buildings and churches, crushed buses and killed at least 65 people in one of the country's worst natural disasters.



The Words of the Lord......


Daniel 11:41-44 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

Ezekiel 38:4-6 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.


Quaddafi came into power during a coup in 1969. Recently I wrote a thread about end times, possibly being in 2011. 1969 was one of the dates that I believe gives us a definite marker. I see it as the beginning of the seventy years of desolation which ended in 2009...beginning the last 3 1/2 years and...that time has been shortened! [/b

Are we seeing the falling of the five kings written of in Reveltion...soon to be replaced with those that come with the beast?



Revelation 17:10-12 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.




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TexUs

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No, we aren't.

Daniel 11 was past even in Jesus' day. Ezekiel 38 already was as well.


Even if you don't know history and still want to think these of past I think Christ would speak ill of those who spend so much time infatuated with end times prophecy. The angels said to stop looking for Christ- FOLLOW HIM.

I'm not discounting it but there's a healthy understanding and then there's obsession that becomes idolatry.
 

rockytopva

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No, we aren't.

Daniel 11 was past even in Jesus' day. Ezekiel 38 already was as well.


Even if you don't know history and still want to think these of past I think Christ would speak ill of those who spend so much time infatuated with end times prophecy. The angels said to stop looking for Christ- FOLLOW HIM.

I'm not discounting it but there's a healthy understanding and then there's obsession that becomes idolatry.


I don't think that we have seen Ezekiel 38 come to pass yet...

in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword - Ezekiel 38:8 (So its after 1950)

it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land - Ezekiel 38:16
 

australia

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No, we aren't. Daniel 11 was past even in Jesus' day.

You might've missed this;

Dan 11:40
And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
 

TexUs

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You might've missed this;

Dan 11:40
And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
You should immediately ask yourself "The end of WHAT"? Instead of making an ASSUMPTION (you notice there's alot of those around here) that it's talking about the end of the world.

The "end" is... The end of the Jews. In other words, the end of the age that Christ came to end.

The King of the South was Mark Antony, his ally was Cleopatra (the last monarch that held the throne in Egypt). The King of the North was Octavius (the official representative of Rome).
These two parties made a pact to rule Rome after Julius Caesar was assassinated (44BC). Two years later (42BC) these two defeated the forces that assassinated the emperor. Antony fell in love with his ally. Antony was defeated against the Parthians in 36BC- and then he and Octavius had a falling out. In 32BC- Antony divorced his current wife (The sister of Octavius)- and gave Roman territories to his new love, Cleopatra. Needless to say, Antony and Octavius were against each other and in 31BC... War broke out. Antony made the first move (As the Bible says). Antony's generals told him to use his much larger infantry to attack Roman forces, but instead Antony used ships (at his lover's request)- we know there were roughly 630 ships.

This story goes on and on but I feel that addresses this particular verse.
The point is... Historical events fulfill this.

This was, as I said, historical in even Jesus' day.

in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword - Ezekiel 38:8 (So its after 1950)

it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land - Ezekiel 38:16
The last days of what?




The entire "Ezekiel 38 is future" theory falls apart on verse 8.
Coincidence you didn't quote the entire thing? Or selective reading?
After many days you will be mustered. In the latter years you will go against the land that is restored from war, the land whose people were gathered from many peoples upon the mountains of Israel, which had been a continual waste. Its people were brought out from the peoples and now dwell securely, all of them.


Do you REALLY want to say that Israel now dwells securely?????
 

Job one

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For those that think Ezekiel Chapter 38 has been fulfilled, may I suggest that you review carefully Chapters 37, 38 and 39. A careful study of all three may give one a much deeper view and understanding.

I would only comment that when, ALL these things are fulfilled, it should be obvious and plain to anyone's understanding.
 

TexUs

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For those that think Ezekiel Chapter 38 has been fulfilled, may I suggest that you review carefully Chapters 37, 38 and 39. A careful study of all three may give one a much deeper view and understanding.

I would only comment that when, ALL these things are fulfilled, it should be obvious and plain to anyone's understanding.
Again, does the Israel in the Middle East today dwell in safety? It's necessary for what you're claiming.

Funny thing is, nobody ever wants to answer that question. Wonder why?

Is it because it's a glaring, huge, massive contradictory hole in your theory?

"OMG! Look! Israel is persecuted by all people, we're in the LAST DAYS, I tell you!!!"

But the Bible says... They're to be dwelling safely.
 

Duckybill

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Zechariah 14:2-4 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [sup]3 [/sup]Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. [sup]4 [/sup]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
 

TexUs

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Zechariah 14:2-4 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [sup]3 [/sup]Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. [sup]4 [/sup]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

You're looking for future fulfillment of something that was fulfilled thousands of years ago.

I really do dislike "telling" you what's right... I think it's good to point out methods of thinking so you can study the Bible better. So let me ask you, by what token do you automatically think, "This is future and is the second coming"???? What makes you believe that? Bias? Because you've been TAUGHT that? For me, it was certainly because I was TAUGHT that and never questioned it. But when I actually started studying the Bible for myself, things changed... I learned I couldn't read into these things bias...

This prophecy happens to span 3 chapters, from 12-14. You'll notice in one of them it deals with the Shepherd being struck for his flock... That should give you a very basic clue as to the time period in which these events occurred.
 

Duckybill

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You're looking for future fulfillment of something that was fulfilled thousands of years ago.
Sounds like Preterist to me. What imagination!

Zechariah 14:2-4 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [sup]3 [/sup]Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. [sup]4 [/sup]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

Hasn't happened, yet. But it soon will.
 

TexUs

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Zechariah 14:2-4 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [sup]3 [/sup]Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. [sup]4 [/sup]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

Hasn't happened, yet. But it soon will.
Was Jerusalem taken by armies in a battle? Yes.
Has Jesus stood on the Mount of Olives? Yes.
 

Duckybill

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Was Jerusalem taken by armies in a battle? Yes.
Has Jesus stood on the Mount of Olives? Yes.
Oh my.

Zechariah 14:12 (NKJV)
[sup]12 [/sup]And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
 

TexUs

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Zechariah 14:12 (NKJV)
[sup]12 [/sup]And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

Ducky, you ignore Chapter 13. You never even addressed it.

Chapter 13 and the beginning of 14 should clue you in to the time period of this time.

One verse, does not negate the rest of the context.

Is the dissolving of flesh (by intense heat), dry mouths, etc... Not a picture of the destiny the attackers received? IE, hell?
I don't think you can literally interpret this passage. The Mount of Olives won't literally split in two. Just like the stars of the sky haven't LITERALLY fallen multiple times.
This was written to a Jewish audience though- it's cryptic, kindof hard for us to understand... There's no doubt the Jews would have understood it. Read Matthew 24 and then Luke 21. Amazing how much easier we can understand Luke 21- it's the same passage but to different audiences (Luke was for the Gentile, Matthew was for the Jew).
 

Duckybill

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Ducky, you ignore Chapter 13. You never even addressed it.

Chapter 13 and the beginning of 14 should clue you in to the time period of this time.

One verse, does not negate the rest of the context.

Is the dissolving of flesh (by intense heat), dry mouths, etc... Not a picture of the destiny the attackers received? IE, hell?
I don't think you can literally interpret this passage. The Mount of Olives won't literally split in two. Just like the stars of the sky haven't LITERALLY fallen multiple times.
This was written to a Jewish audience though- it's cryptic, kindof hard for us to understand... There's no doubt the Jews would have understood it. Read Matthew 24 and then Luke 21. Amazing how much easier we can understand Luke 21- it's the same passage but to different audiences (Luke was for the Gentile, Matthew was for the Jew).
It's not "hard for us to understand". It's VERY clear. Try it again.

Zechariah 14:12 (NKJV)
[sup]12 [/sup]And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
 

TexUs

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I tried. You just don't like my answer because it doesn't fit within your pre-conceived bias of how you want the end times to work.
 

Duckybill

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I tried. You just don't like my answer because it doesn't fit within your pre-conceived bias of how you want the end times to work.
The fact is that God has not cast away the Nation of Israel. Israel is the Bible land. The church is not Israel.
 

TexUs

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The fact is that God has not cast away the Nation of Israel. Israel is the Bible land. The church is not Israel.

What does that have to do with Zechariah 14? Stick to the topic. You already have a thread promoting your Israel heresy.
 

Duckybill

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What does that have to do with Zechariah 14? Stick to the topic. You already have a thread promoting your Israel heresy.
Heresy? Perhaps you would like to join these nations to fight against Israel?

Zechariah 14:2-3 (KJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [sup]3 [/sup]Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

 

TexUs

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Heresy? Perhaps you would like to join these nations to fight against Israel?

I could certainly join those nations but being earthly nations have nothing to do with the spiritual nation it wouldn't mean anything.
 

Duckybill

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I could certainly join those nations but being earthly nations have nothing to do with the spiritual nation it wouldn't mean anything.
I don't doubt that you would join them. And it would certainly be fatal. You would be fighting against God. Guess who'd win.

Zechariah 14:2-3 (KJV)
[sup][/sup][sup]3 [/sup]Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.