The Word of God

jiggyfly · Feb 23, 2011

The Word of God An excerpt taken from "Biblical Dyslexia" by Charles Wilhelm.

The Bible - We believe that the Bible is the infallible, inspired, and only true Word of the Living God.
- Hickory Hammock Baptist Church Doctrine Statement, Milton, FL.

The Bible is God's word isn't it? If it is, the scriptures themselves should declare as much. Let us try an experiment which allows the Bible to difine it's own terms. Substitute the word Bible for "Word of God or "the Word" wherever it occurs in scripture. Based on only a few examples below, it quickly becomes clear that the terms are not interchangeable.

by the Bible the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water....(II Peter 3:5)

By the same Bible the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire....(II Peter 3:7)

But if they are prophets, and have the Bible, let them plead with the Lord... (Jer. 27:18)

Then came the Bible to Jeremiah, saying.... (Jer. 29:30)

In the beginning was the Bible and the Bible was with God and the Bible was God. (John 1:1)

And the Bible kept on spreading... (Acts 6:7)

The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the Bible. (Acts 11:1)

He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is the Holy Bible. (Rev. 19: 13)

Those who maintain that the Bible is the "only true word of God" should consider what is written there:

In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets (Heb.1:1)

But in these last days He has spoken to us by a Son... (Heb.1:2)

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. (Ps. 19 and Rom. 10:18)

For God does speak- now one way, now another- though man may not perceive it. In a dream, in a vision of the night... He may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings... (Job 33:14)

Moreover, if the Bible is the "Word of God", why did the Holy Spirit send His disciples out to preach the gospel? They could have mailed copies of "God's Word" instead. That should have been sufficient, because

...faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Bible. (Romans 10:17)

With these examples in mind, it is perfectly logical that Paul, in his letter to Timothy, would write: "But the Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Where are the scriptures which spoke so explicitly about these things? Apparently, the Spirit of God was once able to communicate clearly without resorting to a written canon.

There can be no doubt God's ways and words are recorded in the Bible, but is the Word of God perhaps something more than scripture?

Disciple · Feb 24, 2011

the word of God to me is what God says to me and Isreal as a body, it could be from the holy books or all the other ways he speaks to me but his words are glorious and are of the Spirit and not letter, it doesnt matter to me which book I am reading from, from the holy book the words are out of letter to me and are Spiritual and glorious as it is written, 'the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life'..
2Coritinthians 3:6-18
devon
(GIVE GOD ALL THE GLORY!)

TexUs · Feb 24, 2011

Your attempt to belittle the Bible won't work.
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

mjrhealth · Feb 24, 2011

Your attempt to belittle the Bible won't work.

And neither will belliting God, as if He would be foolish enough to give man a book to teach himself from, take a look at all these forums and see what happened.

In His Love

jiggyfly · Feb 24, 2011

TexUs said:
[font="Georgia]
Your attempt to belittle the Bible won't work.
[i]Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.[/i][/font]
[/quote]

Your confused, I am not trying to belittle the bible, just putting things into proper perspective. I love the scriptures and find them very helpful in relating to God when properly understood but the confusion about the identity of the scriptures is much the same today as it was in Jesus' day.

"You search the Scriptures because you believe they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! John 5:39

[font="'trebuchet ms"]There is much error today as to the entity of the bible.[/font]

TexUs · Feb 24, 2011

You notice the verse you quoted... Jesus did not discount the scriptures one iota.

He didn't say they were wrong. He didn't say they contradicted his teachings. He didn't say they got messed up. He simply said: the scriptures don't save- he saves.
Really? An inanimate object doesn't save? Who knew? By the way- look at the Greek, he did not use "logos", he used "graphe"- which is a DOCUMENT.
The DOCUMENT doesn't save, he saves.

Your use (or rather, abuse) of the terminology between Bible and Word of God should be noted, though.
The Bible is but one tiny sliver of God's Word. Of course, "By the Bible" the heavens were not made... The Bible is not the entirety of God's Word.
It'd by like saying, "You can find Noah's flood in the Bible: 1 John is the Bible"... It's but one sliver. It's not the entire thing. Obviously, abusing the terminology by interchanging them at all won't make sense.
I see this as nothing but an attempt to belittle the Bible, why else would you post this? Your intent was obviously to show the Bible was insufficient to be used in those passages (AKA, belittled).
The Bible is true, accurate, factual. But it's not the entirety of God.

mjrhealth said:
And neither will belliting God, as if He would be foolish enough to give man a book to teach himself from

Well, considering he opted to give a man a book to teach from- it seems like the one belittling God is you by denying what he's done.

Does he NEED to? No. Did he? Yes.

Anastacia · Feb 24, 2011

TexUs said:
You notice the verse you quoted... Jesus did not discount the scriptures one iota.

He didn't say they were wrong. He didn't say they contradicted his teachings. He didn't say they got messed up. He simply said: the scriptures don't save- he saves.
Really? An inanimate object doesn't save? Who knew? By the way- look at the Greek, he did not use "logos", he used "graphe"- which is a DOCUMENT.
The DOCUMENT doesn't save, he saves.

Your use (or rather, abuse) of the terminology between Bible and Word of God should be noted, though.
The Bible is but one tiny sliver of God's Word. Of course, "By the Bible" the heavens were not made... The Bible is not the entirety of God's Word.
It'd by like saying, "You can find Noah's flood in the Bible: 1 John is the Bible"... It's but one sliver. It's not the entire thing. Obviously, abusing the terminology by interchanging them at all won't make sense.
I see this as nothing but an attempt to belittle the Bible, why else would you post this? Your intent was obviously to show the Bible was insufficient to be used in those passages (AKA, belittled).
The Bible is true, accurate, factual. But it's not the entirety of God.

Well, considering he opted to give a man a book to teach from- it seems like the one belittling God is you by denying what he's done.

Does he NEED to? No. Did he? Yes.

Excellent defense of the truth, TexUs.

dfj · Feb 24, 2011

jiggyfly said:
[font="verdana]The Bible is God's word isn't it?

The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the Bible. ([url="http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Acts%2011.1"]Acts 11:1[/url])
Those who maintain that the Bible is the "only true word of God" should consider what is written there:
In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets (Heb.1:1)
But in these last days He has spoken to us by a Son... (Heb.1:2)
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. (Ps. 19 and Rom. 10:18)
For God does speak- now one way, now another- though man may not perceive it. In a dream, in a vision of the night... He may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings... (Job 33:14)
[/font]

I think this is an very honest inquiry.

I have come to understand the Bible as a book of Precepts. Precepts from God to help us understand who He is, who Christ is and to understand the extraordinary gift of His Salvation in Christ.

But it is also a very practical work designed, (through the use of His Precept), to teach us how to live as He would have us live, (what kind of people should we be?).

jiggyfly said:
[font="verdana]With these examples in mind, it is perfectly logical that Paul, in his letter to Timothy, would write: "But the Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Where are the scriptures which spoke so explicitly about these things? Apparently, the Spirit of God was once able to communicate clearly without resorting to a written canon.
[/font][/color][/size][size="2"]

2 Peter 3:16; His, [Paul's], letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Heb 5:11-14: We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

It requires the help of the Spirit of God for us to be able to understand His Word(s) and to correctly put them into use.

1 Cor 2:14-15; The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

jacobtaylor · Feb 24, 2011

mjrhealth said:
And neither will belliting God, as if He would be foolish enough to give man a book to teach himself from, take a look at all these forums and see what happened. In His Love

My own observation from the writings of the bible is it tells us that men failed to understand Jesus the Law and the prophets. You can see this same theme played out over and over. The testimony of Jesus directly speaking and teaching is that many didn't understand. Paul says the the prophets spoke of things they didn't completely understand but was latter reveled. Danial was told to close the book, it was for the end that it will the be known. The Pharisees were reprimanded for not understanding. The things written in the bible were first spoken, it easy to deduct that great conversations took place in reguard to these words. What we don't see in the scripture is men questioning it, even those that didn't recognize Jesus as the one scripture pointed to, never questioned the words recorded in the bible.

Is there a message in this observation? I believe there is. There were and are many that accepted the entire written record of the bible yet failed to recognize to whom it was pointing to, even when Jesus stood before them recounting the very words they held in reverence. By following this example, how much more should we turn a blind eye and a death ear to those that question the written record? To those that wish to edit the bible to satisfy a personal desire you are in greater condemnation than the scribes and pharisees. It's dificult enought dealing with teachers that twist or interpret passages then apply that to the whole of scripture ignoring the passages that conflict with their interpretation. I have no time or place to entertain others that openly deny all or part of the Bible. Its the very means you all claim to know of salvation in the first place.

Can any of you anti bible "Christians" tell me how you came to know of salvation aside of the bible? If no one can answer this question, I suggest you reflect on the fact that you blasphemy the very book that you claim to have come to the knowledge of God to begin with. Apply this verse to the bible, can both fresh and salt water flow from the same spring? Those that think it can deceive themselves. The truth is not in them.

TexUs · Feb 24, 2011

Jacob T said:
By following this example, how much more should we turn a blind eye and a death ear to those that question the written record?

Excellent point, I hadn't thought of that before.

Jacob T said:
Can any of you anti bible "Christians" tell me how you came to know of salvation aside of the bible? If no one can answer this question, I suggest you reflect on the fact that you blasphemy the very book that you claim to have come to the knowledge of God to begin with.

I'm fairly certain the majority of people came to the knowledge through the Bible.

God has made himself clearly known to the world through Creation.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

IN ADDITION, Paul clearly lines out the salvation process.
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Do these passages conflict? I don't think so. I believe in Romans, Paul is saying that creation points to God... It should stir within us a desire to seek him.
Paul, then in Ephesians, tells us how this is done... Through the word of truth, the gospel.

Of course this means nothing to people who happened to use Romans 1 and Ephesians 1 as toilet paper today, but for those of us who believe it to be the Word of God it provides insight into the workings of salvation.

jacobtaylor · Feb 24, 2011

Jacob T said:
My own observation from the writings of the bible is it tells us that men failed to understand Jesus the Law and the prophets. You can see this same theme played out over and over. The testimony of Jesus directly speaking and teaching is that many didn't understand. Paul says the the prophets spoke of things they didn't completely understand but was latter reveled. Danial was told to close the book, it was for the end that it will the be known. The Pharisees were reprimanded for not understanding. The things written in the bible were first spoken, it easy to deduct that great conversations took place in reguard to these words. What we don't see in the scripture is men questioning it, even those that didn't recognize Jesus as the one scripture pointed to, never questioned the words recorded in the bible.

Is there a message in this observation? I believe there is. There were and are many that accepted the entire written record of the bible yet failed to recognize to whom it was pointing to, even when Jesus stood before them recounting the very words they held in reverence. By following this example, how much more should we turn a blind eye and a death ear to those that question the written record? To those that wish to edit the bible to satisfy a personal desire you are in greater condemnation than the scribes and pharisees. It's dificult enought dealing with teachers that twist or interpret passages then apply that to the whole of scripture ignoring the passages that conflict with their interpretation. I have no time or place to entertain others that openly deny all or part of the Bible. Its the very means you all claim to know of salvation in the first place.

Can any of you anti bible "Christians" tell me how you came to know of salvation aside of the bible? If no one can answer this question, I suggest you reflect on the fact that you blasphemy the very book that you claim to have come to the knowledge of God to begin with. Apply this verse to the bible, can both fresh and salt water flow from the same spring? Those that think it can deceive themselves. The truth is not in them.

I came back to correct myself their was one that questioned Gods word. Gen 3:1
[sup]1[/sup] Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

Anastacia · Feb 24, 2011

Jacob T said:
My own observation from the writings of the bible is it tells us that men failed to understand Jesus the Law and the prophets. You can see this same theme played out over and over. The testimony of Jesus directly speaking and teaching is that many didn't understand. Paul says the the prophets spoke of things they didn't completely understand but was latter reveled. Danial was told to close the book, it was for the end that it will the be known. The Pharisees were reprimanded for not understanding. The things written in the bible were first spoken, it easy to deduct that great conversations took place in reguard to these words. What we don't see in the scripture is men questioning it, even those that didn't recognize Jesus as the one scripture pointed to, never questioned the words recorded in the bible.

Is there a message in this observation? I believe there is. There were and are many that accepted the entire written record of the bible yet failed to recognize to whom it was pointing to, even when Jesus stood before them recounting the very words they held in reverence. By following this example, how much more should we turn a blind eye and a death ear to those that question the written record? To those that wish to edit the bible to satisfy a personal desire you are in greater condemnation than the scribes and pharisees. It's dificult enought dealing with teachers that twist or interpret passages then apply that to the whole of scripture ignoring the passages that conflict with their interpretation. I have no time or place to entertain others that openly deny all or part of the Bible. Its the very means you all claim to know of salvation in the first place.

Can any of you anti bible "Christians" tell me how you came to know of salvation aside of the bible? If no one can answer this question, I suggest you reflect on the fact that you blasphemy the very book that you claim to have come to the knowledge of God to begin with. Apply this verse to the bible, can both fresh and salt water flow from the same spring? Those that think it can deceive themselves. The truth is not in them.

Another brother who's defense of the truth is excellent.

For those who are questioning the Bible in such an offensive way, you could not know about God, Jesus and salvation, if not for the written word.

Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? [sup]15[/sup] And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him--to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen. Romans 16:25-27.

We are exhorted to check out teaching against Scripture (Isaiah 8:20; Acts 17:11.)

The Bereans of Acts 17:11, "examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so."

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to the word, they have no light of dawn.

1 Corinthians 14:37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command.

John 20-30-31 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. [sup]31[/sup] But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Psalm 119:105 Your word is a lamp for my feet,
a light on my path.

Robbie · Feb 24, 2011

My personal belief is that Jesus is the Word of God...

If there's anything in the bible that agrees with the revelation of God that's in Jesus I hold onto it... if it disagrees with Jesus I throw it out...

For instance I threw out an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth because Jesus told me to love my enemies...

But yeah... I think the whole bible is good as long as it's read with the mind of Christ...

TexUs · Feb 24, 2011

Robbie said:
If there's anything in the bible that agrees with the revelation of God that's in Jesus I hold onto it... if it disagrees with Jesus I throw it out...

So you call Paul a liar? "All scripture is breathed out by God"?

Robbie · Feb 24, 2011

I said...

"My personal belief is that Jesus is the Word of God...

If there's anything in the bible that agrees with the revelation of God that's in Jesus I hold onto it... if it disagrees with Jesus I throw it out...

For instance I threw out an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth because Jesus told me to love my enemies...

But yeah... I think the whole bible is good as long as it's read with the mind of Christ..."

TexUs · Feb 24, 2011

And I asked if Paul lies.

"ALLLLLLL Scripture is God Breathed".

Is he a liar or not? Yes or no?

Robbie · Feb 24, 2011

haha... no thanks... find someone else to argue with...

I said what I said...

Be blessed...

TexUs · Feb 24, 2011

Robbie said:
haha... no thanks... find someone else to argue with...

I said what I said...

Be blessed...

I think this response is sufficient enough to tell me (and others reading) what I needed to know.

aspen · Feb 24, 2011

The self-righteous anger on this thread is stifling - where is it coming from? It is like a putrid smell.

jiggyfly · Feb 24, 2011

I smell it too and I'm sure others can smell it also but I don't think it will last very long

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