The Word of God

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Robbie

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Back on topic...

Something that really cleared things up for me is when I realized that when a letter that's in bible was talking about the Word of God that they weren't talking about the bible since the bible hadn't even been compiled yet... the bible wasn't written as a whole... it's a compilation of individual writings and was put together after everything in it had already been written... so there's nothing written in the bible that's talking about the bible... the bible is a compilation of writings that were inspired by people's relationship with God... some of those people saw God through a veil... some through Christ... ane the One Jesus being The Word is the fullness of the revelation... that being Jesus who is the fullness of God's Word... He is the Word manifested in the flesh... that's why He had the authority to overrule scriptures that existed before He was manifested in the flesh... that's why He could say, “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." even though by doing so he was contradicting Exodus and Leviticas...

The scriptures are good if they bring you to Christ... but you can't find eternal life in them no matter how hard you look... eternal life is only found by coming to Christ... He is God's Word... when God spoke all thing into existance in the beginnging He did it through Jesus because Jesus is God speaking... Jesus is God's Word...

In the begniing was the Word... and that Word was with God... and that Word was God... that Word wasn't a book spinning around in outerspace... that Word was Jesus...

If Christ is in you, God's Word is in you, God is in you...

In that day you know the Father is in Him and Him in you...

Hope this blesses...
 

Robbie

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PS: I want to share why that revelation was so important to me but I can't until I get back from running a couple errands... but it basically has to do with the first couple timea I read Ecclesiastes... and reading it at first as The Word of God and getting really scared and confused... and then reading it again as the word of a man who was struggling just like me and finding comfort that I wasn't alone in my doubts and struggles...

<3
 

TexUs

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that's why He had the authority to overrule scriptures that existed before He was manifested in the flesh... that's why He could say, “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." even though by doing so he was contradicting Exodus and Leviticas...
There's no contradiction unless you misunderstand the scriptures as pacifists (you) do.

An eye for an eye was an OT law of justice. It meant:
1) Fair judgement. If you killed someone, you too, will be killed as punishment. Eye for an eye.
2) No excessive punishment. If you stole some bread, you were to return some bread. You wouldn't get a death sentence for stealing bread. Eye for an eye.

But this was a law, something that would go through their judicial system.

What's this have to do with the application Jesus was talking about? Well, the Pharisees had perverted most of the law. Including this one. They used it as an excuse for personal vengeance. "He kicked my cat so I did the same!"<- That's not justice. That's vengeance.

His law wasn't the problem- the people that perverted it were. This is what Christ was addressing. Personal vengeance. He didn't negate any of his law, he clarified it... "This is not to be misconstrued as an excuse for personal, selfish vengeance".

Once you understand this it's easy to see both that
1) He didn't contradict anything
2) This does not support pacifism
 

aspen

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"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind"

Ghandi
 

jacobtaylor

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The self-righteous anger on this thread is stifling - where is it coming from? It is like a putrid smell.

The other smell is this.
Everyone of the pick and chose bible club are the someones that teach love is all thats needed. The love club and the write your own bible club are the same.

The next comment from them will be we can not love and accept the apparently unloving things in the bible both. Isn't that right aspen. Yesterday you convinced me you have real issues with the OT. Your pick and choose method disregards everything you don't interpret as loving. Is God suppose to love the serpent for temping Eve? You yourself said, If you were Job nether would you have a loving attitude with God, I think you said " justified anger" . So what is God to do with those that corrupt and dispute his creation as well as his judgments? I would guess you don't believe Revelations as well or the scripture that reads vengeance is mine says the Lord. You seem to have missed the fact that justice is the act of justifying those that love God and His ways, not those that love everything.

I'm rather happy to see this thread, it revels that the same people that question the bible are the someones that teach love is the solution to everything. What a perfect combination, after you get everyone on board the love train no one will ever question a persons doctrine again, that would not be the loving thing to do, you may offend someone. The same as aspen finds the OT offensive.

So lets all get on the love train and in love, agree with one another with what ever part of the bible you like or dislike is fine by me. Then we will all be like God ourselves. Just like the serpent told Eve. What a not so great plan, thanks but no thanks
 
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aspen

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The other smell is this.
Everyone of the pick and chose bible club are the someones that teach love is all thats needed. The love club and the write your own bible club are the same.

The next comment from them will be we can not love and accept the apparently unloving things in the bible both. Isn't that right aspen. Yesterday you convinced me you have real issues with the OT. Your pick and choose method disregards everything you don't interpret as loving. Is God suppose to love the serpent for temping Eve? You yourself said, If you were Job nether would you have a loving attitude with God, I think you said " justified anger" . So what is God to do with those that corrupt and dispute his creation as well as his judgments? I would guess you don't believe Revelations as well or the scripture that reads vengeance is mine says the Lord. You seem to have missed the fact that justice is the act of justifying those that love God and His ways, not those that love everything.

I'm rather happy to see this thread, it revels that the same people that question the bible are the someones that teach love is the solution to everything. What a perfect combination, after you get everyone on board the love train no one will ever question a persons doctrine again, that would not be the loving thing to do, you may offend someone. The same as aspen finds the OT offensive.

So lets all get on the love train and in love, agree with one another with what ever part of the bible you like or dislike is fine by me. Then we will all be like God ourselves. Just like the serpent told Eve. What a not so great plan, thanks but no thanks

Love is certainly the answer - it is the Kingdom of God in our hearts. I am not sure why the ideas seems so bitter to you Jacob.
If you really did read my post, you would have seen that I do in fact, accept everything in the Bible - I have mentioned several times that every word is inspired and is supposed to be there. I just think or modern interpretation of the scripture is inaccurate. It is also colored by our denominations and crazy standards we expect the Bible to live up to:

1. It must be interpreted literally or your not a Christian
2. It must support science or science is wrong.
3. It must present a vengeful God, rather than a merciful God who was trying to communicate to vengeful people.
4. It must be a direct, word for word, dictation from God, rather than an inspired document written by sinful men.

Once again, I do not have a real issue with the OT - I do have an issue with certain Christians who have hijacked the OT to support their own angry, zealous agenda. And do not worry about the serpent - God loves him already - He loves his entire creation - unfortunately, the fact that He does love so unconditionally really makes those who hate Him, hate even more. Hell is going to be the merciful choice for these haters to spend eternity.

Also, if God really struck up a bet with one of his servants that involved the killing of my family - yes I would be pissed off - I think it is sad that you cannot admit that you would be as well.

You know, it is interesting - the Jewish people did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah because they were expecting a warrior and Jesus was a lover. Perhaps the same thing will happen in the Christian world when Jesus returns. It sure would humble a lot of hearts and piss off a lot of self righteous people.
 

jacobtaylor

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Love is certainly the answer - it is the Kingdom of God in our hearts. I am not sure why the ideas seems so bitter to you Jacob.
If you really did read my post, you would have seen that I do in fact, accept everything in the Bible - I have mentioned several times that every word is inspired and is supposed to be there. I just think or modern interpretation of the scripture is inaccurate. It is also colored by our denominations and crazy standards we expect the Bible to live up to:

1. It must be interpreted literally or your not a Christian
2. It must support science or science is wrong.
3. It must present a vengeful God, rather than a merciful God who was trying to communicate to vengeful people.
4. It must be a direct, word for word, dictation from God, rather than an inspired document written by sinful men.

Once again, I do not have a real issue with the OT - I do have an issue with certain Christians who have hijacked the OT to support their own angry, zealous agenda. And do not worry about the serpent - God loves him already - He loves his entire creation - unfortunately, the fact that He does love so unconditionally really makes those who hate Him, hate even more. Hell is going to be the merciful choice for these haters to spend eternity.

Also, if God really struck up a bet with one of his servants that involved the killing of my family - yes I would be pissed off - I think it is sad that you cannot admit that you would be as well.

You know, it is interesting - the Jewish people did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah because they were expecting a warrior and Jesus was a lover. Perhaps the same thing will happen in the Christian world when Jesus returns. It sure would humble a lot of hearts and piss off a lot of self righteous people.

Who said Im bitter I just call it how I see it. You would like to imply bitterness so you can fire up the love train.

Yesterday you said you don't believe certain accounts in the OT. You then attribute them all to simply stories. Including the flood, Gods killing of the first born in Egypt, along with any other account of God destroying people that opposed him. I think you accused God of murder on several occasions, is that a loving attitude you have?
Once again, I do not have a real issue with the OT - I do have an issue with certain Christians who have hijacked the OT to support their own angry, zealous agenda.

If I disagree with you and others here about the validity of the bible. Who am I loving? You or God? As you can see love is not always the answer.
You seem to have missed the fact that justice is the act of justifying those that love God and His ways, not those that love everything.
 

TexUs

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You can whine and cry like a three year old all you want aspen, but the FACTs are that vengeance is a quality that God assigns to HIMSELF by HIMSELF.
 

aspen

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Who said Im bitter I just call it how I see it. You would like to imply bitterness so you can fire up the love train.

Sorry the love train doesn't run on bitterness. You can choose to believe whatever you want to believe - it doesn't affect me either way. However, my beliefs do seem to trouble you.

Yesterday you said you don't believe certain accounts in the OT.

I said that I have doubts about stories in the OT - they may have happened and they may not of happened. My point is that every word in the Bible is supposed to be there and it is only our Post-Enlightened mindset that keeps us trapped on the question of whether the Flood really happened - the fact is, it doesn't matter - the story is supposed to be there and it teaches us an important lesson about God and our relationship with Him.

You then attribute them all to simply stories.

I never called them simple stories - I said they are inspired stories. Do you believe that the Prodigal Son really existed, why or why not? The fact is, it doesn't matter in this case either - the point of the story is what matters.

Including the flood, Gods killing of the first born in Egypt, along with any other account of God destroying people that opposed him.

From what I know about God - it seems more plausible to me that humans attributed a lot of natural events to God. Maybe it did happen, maybe it didn't - the point of the story is what matters.

I think you accused God of murder on several occasions, is that a loving attitude you have?

I never accused God of murder.

If I disagree with you and others here about the validity of the bible. Who am I loving? You or God? As you can see love is not always the answer.
You seem to have missed the fact that justice is the act of justifying those that love God and His ways, not those that love everything.

Neither. Choosing to agree or disagree with an idea is not love. It is a cognitive function, not an emotional one. I think this a specifically Protestant problem you are talking about - confusing reason with love.
 

jacobtaylor

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Say aspen when you use words and phrases like these

bitter
angry, zealous agenda. ---------------------I like your next reply, God loves the serpent?
And do not worry about the serpent - God loves him already - He loves his entire creation
haters
hate
pissed off
piss off a lot of self righteous people

Its clear you don't love those that disagree with you. So why must I hold to your standard that you yourself don't follow? :blink: Did the love train leave without you?
Jesus said, they lay heavy burdens on the people but they themselves don't lift a finger, is this you aspen?
 

aspen

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Say aspen when you use words and phrases like these

bitter
angry, zealous agenda. ---------------------I like your next reply, God loves the serpent?
And do not worry about the serpent - God loves him already - He loves his entire creation
haters
hate
pissed off
piss off a lot of self righteous people

Its clear you don't love those that disagree with you. So why must I hold to your standard that you yourself don't follow? :blink: Did the love train leave without you?
Jesus said, they lay heavy burdens on the people but they themselves don't lift a finger, is this you aspen?

Well, if you do not perceive me as loving, I believe Jesus calls you to love me anyway.

Being angry and pissed off are human emotional reactions - they do not nullify love.

Also, I may disagree with a person's idea or pattern of behavior, but I separate it from my feeling about the person. Sometimes I fail and I ask for patience and forgiveness from God.
 

jacobtaylor

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I never accused God of murder.

Where do you see that I'm saying he's not following his own ethics?


God tells us not to murder - yet, you seem to have no problem with your God murdering thousands of people. God tells us to forgive our enemies - yet you seem to have no problem with God sending people to Hell for eternity. We are all sinful, yet God decides to justify and sanctify us, but hardens Pharaoh's heart as a means to an end.

It wasn't just my opinion.

Have to agree with Jacob on the murder part.

Murder means essentially plotting to kill someone - in the American system you have first and second degree, but both are characterized by the intent. Then you have (in our system) manslaughter which is without the intent; IE: vehicular manslaughter by driving a car beyond in a dangerous manner. Legally speaking, this is very important. The Hebrew from the OT bears this out when it comes to murder - it literally means to lay in wait and kill. If we expand murder to mean killing, then the hypothetical situation of a someone intending to kill or maim a child, spouse, parent, or other loved one becomes murder.

God clearly never plotted to kill any person when it comes to hell. I understand that you do not make the distinction between killing and murder, but legal systems do.

However, it could be argued that the God of the Old Testament commit murder in a sense of the word. (That's where I fail to see the reconciliation perspective.) God has killed before (always carrying out a just sentence), but even in that case it's the result of a crime (sin or many sins) and not specifically a murder. He did not lay in wait for a specific person or group, he pronounced a righteous judgment.
 

aspen

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It wasn't just my opinion.


I was pointing out that when the OT is misread, it seems (appears) as if God is murdering His creation. I wasn't calling God into question - I was referring to people who seem to enjoy finding a vengeful angry, murdering God in the scriptures. I know God's character and I know humanities character. My God would never treat His creation worse than I treat my dog. My neighbor, however seems to enjoy watching other getting punished and a punishing God.
 

jacobtaylor

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Well, if you do not perceive me as loving, I believe Jesus calls you to love me anyway.

Being angry and pissed off are human emotional reactions - they do not nullify love.

Also, I may disagree with a person's idea or pattern of behavior, but I separate it from my feeling about the person. Sometimes I fail and I ask for patience and forgiveness from God.

Unconditional love is not the teaching of the OT or NT. Jesus expressed this idea in John 17. He prayed for His disciples and those that would come to know him in the future. What this shows is God has different degrees of love. He is seen here expressing a love to those that know him along with those that would. I suggest you look at the several Greek words that translate to the single word love. Do you love your dog or your car in the same degree you love God? I highly doubt it. In the same manner we see Jesus loving his own in a different degree than the rest of the world. Just as we have seen it played out in this thread about believing the whole bible or selected passages.
I am not called to love those that disagree with God in the same manner I love God. If we were everyone would be acceptant of everything. I can not accept everything from anyone In the same manner I accept the sovereignty of God and His judgments. Its a completely foolish notion.

To The the Disciples. Notice his exclusion of the rest of the world. I do not pray for the world

[sup]6[/sup] “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. [sup]7[/sup] Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. [sup]8[/sup] For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
[sup]9[/sup] “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. [sup]10[/sup] And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. [sup]11[/sup] Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me,[sup][b][/sup] that they may be one as We are. [sup]12[/sup] While I was with them in the world,[sup][c][/sup] I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept;[sup][d][/sup] and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. [sup]13[/sup] But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. [sup]14[/sup] I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. [sup]15[/sup] I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. [sup]16[/sup] They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. [sup]17[/sup] Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. [sup]18[/sup] As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. [sup]19[/sup] And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

To the future disciples

[sup]20[/sup] “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[sup][e][/sup] believe in Me through their word; [sup]21[/sup] that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. [sup]22[/sup] And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: [sup]23[/sup] I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
[sup]24[/sup] “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. [sup]25[/sup] O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. [sup]26[/sup] And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

It looks to me like Gods love places those that know him in higher re-guard or degree than the rest of the world. I my opinion its the same with me loving God, I love God to a much higher degree than worldly goods, like my home, car, fancy watch ect. Do you still believe God loves the serpent in the same manner as the children he redeemed? If you do you don't have a clue about love.
 
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Anastacia

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Well, if you do not perceive me as loving, I believe Jesus calls you to love me anyway.

Being angry and pissed off are human emotional reactions - they do not nullify love.

Also, I may disagree with a person's idea or pattern of behavior, but I separate it from my feeling about the person. Sometimes I fail and I ask for patience and forgiveness from God.

Maybe you think you know what love is, but do you know what sincere love is? You'd have to know Jesus to know perfect, sincere love. The way you question and speak about the written Word.....tells all that you don't accept God. How can you obey the Truth when you don't accept what the Word says?


1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
 
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HammerStone

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There is a balancing act - which balance to me is a hallmark of our Father.

[bible=II Peter 1:20-21 HCSB]
First of all, you should know this: no prophecy of Scripture comes from one's own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, moved by the Holy Spirit, men spoke from God.
[/bible]

The danger of the baby with the bathwater comes to mind when we place too much emphasis on only what we feel in Spirit. There are seducing spirits out there and they've continually been able to inflict damage since the beginning of this age. They can put on a pretty convincing show. At the same time, total devotion to the Word only with no Spirit is just as dangerous. It reminds me of Biblical phrases like "the letter killeth" and Paul's discussion of the law.

The Bible is the Word of God. It was inspired by the same Spirit that guides us in its proper interpretation. Both sides need to take a step back and respect the other. Maybe it's time to wake up to the notion that some folks need that Word a little more than they need Spirit and vice versa.

Love manifests in many forms, and it can manifest in the form of discipline (aka "tough" love). Christians are not second class citizens relegated to simply endure every little trouble quietly. Sometimes we are to take the reigns and show folks the power of God.

Jacob, that was an excellent post in explaining the idea of unconditional love. Love, by it's very nature, is quite conditional - hence the reason there were so many Greek words for it!

I wanted to add this - think about the example of the lost sheep or even the prodigal son. The shepherd is willing to leave the flock to return the one. God has an amazing, amazing amount of love (II Peter 3:9 HCSB) to go around not desiring that any should perish, but he also has enough love to protect the good ones when the time comes.
 

jacobtaylor

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I apologize for taking the topic off track but I have been wanting for an opportunity to speak about this love train theology that seems to have taken a firm foot hold here. It accured to me in this thread that those who promote it and also use it to quiet sound doctrine are the sameones that dispute the validity of the bible.

There is a distinct difference in the two commands Jesus replied to when asked, "what is the greatest command" The second is not like the first. Heres some proof in loving God with your whole heart and soul and mind as it says in the first.

Matthew 10:34 [sup]34[/sup] “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. [sup]35[/sup] For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; [sup]36[/sup] and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’[sup][e][/sup] [sup]37[/sup] He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. [sup]38[/sup] And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. [sup]39[/sup] He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.


[sup]34[/sup] But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. [sup]35[/sup] Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, [sup]36[/sup] “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
[sup]37[/sup] Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[sup][d][/sup] [sup]38[/sup] This is the first and great commandment. [sup]39[/sup] And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[sup][e][/sup] [sup]40[/sup] On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The second says, to love your neighbor as yourself. Now that is very different than the first. I don't know about you but Im not keen on loving myself. I know myself way to well. I actually get great comfort a peace in helping others whether they be christian or not. The reality is I give others a greater degree of latitude than I do myself. Like I said I know myself and its not something I like. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

The two commands to love God and love others as yourself are very different. People that fire up the love train at every piece of doctrine they don't like are simply not interested in hearing it and try to convict you, to shut you up. Why? because in this thread they don't believe in the validity of the bible.

The same is true for those that teach love is the only doctrine. They can't tell the difference between loving God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind , and loving others as yourself.

If you love God the same as you love yourself, you probably think you are God. Then you might try picking and choosing the bible passages that God intended and didn't intend. I suggest you try walking on water, let me just say your walking on frozen water, as soon as the Son comes out your going to end up wet.

There are different kinds of love, the love train people need to wake up to that false teaching.
 

aspen

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I apologize for taking the topic off track but I have been wanting for an opportunity to speak about this love train theology that seems to have taken a firm foot hold here. It accured to me in this thread that those who promote it and also use it to quiet sound doctrine are the sameones that dispute the validity of the bible.

There is a distinct difference in the two commands Jesus replied to when asked, "what is the greatest command" The second is not like the first. Heres some proof in loving God with your whole heart and soul and mind as it says in the first.

Matthew 10:34 [sup]34[/sup] “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. [sup]35[/sup] For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; [sup]36[/sup] and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’[sup][e][/sup] [sup]37[/sup] He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. [sup]38[/sup] And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. [sup]39[/sup] He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.




The second says, to love your neighbor as yourself. Now that is very different than the first. I don't know about you but Im not keen on loving myself. I know myself way to well. I actually get great comfort a peace in helping others whether they be christian or not. The reality is I give others a greater degree of latitude than I do myself. Like I said I know myself and its not something I like. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

The two commands to love God and love others as yourself are very different. People that fire up the love train at every piece of doctrine they don't like are simply not interested in hearing it and try to convict you, to shut you up. Why? because in this thread they don't believe in the validity of the bible.

The same is true for those that teach love is the only doctrine. They can't tell the difference between loving God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind , and loving others as yourself.

If you love God the same as you love yourself, you probably think you are God. Then you might try picking and choosing the bible passages that God intended and didn't intend. I suggest you try walking on water, let me just say your walking on frozen water, as soon as the Son comes out your going to end up wet.

There are different kinds of love, the love train people need to wake up to that false teaching.


You know, used to get frustrated when people like Bishop Spong wrote books about improving Christianity by taking the Theism out of it - seriously! He wants to take that little tiny part of Christianity that we do not need anymore - hardly worth mentioning, you know, the God part!

Outrageous - yes

Now I am seeing something just as crazy here - except it isn't God that is being removed from Christianity - it is love. How sad. The only thing we were created to do is love God and our neighbors and now it appears that Christians who seem to really care about the Bible are belittling God's Kingdom in our hearts. Love is our sanctification.

Love is the Kingdom and the work of the Kingdom. We are indeed called to love our neighbors as ourselves - which should be a freeing awesome commandment - not some slog though false humility about how we really shouldn't love ourselves tooooo much. If you really know yourself you will learn patience, kindness, and empathy for others. And the true way to know yourself is to know God - once you feel God's love for you, it is impossible not to love yourself.

You are totally missing the correct interpretation of hating your parents and family - Jesus is talking about hating the tradition we grow up in. The people He was talking to were raised to believe the law - He was trying to show them a new way to think and feel - love is the new standard. Break away from old ways of thinking about heritage and identity and religion.

Also, Jesus didn't say love your enemies lesser than you love your friends which is lesser than you love your family (oops - we are supposed to hate our family), which is lesser than you love God. Why are you trying to make this so complicated? These are the mental gymnastics I refuse to do - it is a waste of time - we are supposed to be loving.

Also, knowing yourself and knowing God are the keys to loving yourself and true humility, which is to know your strength and weaknesses.

I said it before and it is worth repeating

1. If reading the Bible is feeding your ego and encouraging to accuse those around you rather than love, you are in trouble because accusing is the role of the Devil, not man.

2. If we are not loving (practicing our sanctification) it doesn't matter how many verses we memorize we are going to miss the Messiah on His return trip - just like the Pharisees and Sadducees did during His first trip - they knew their scriptures, but the couldn't recognized the source of them starring them in the face because they forgot the most important part of their religion - love.
 

aspen

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I apologize for taking the topic off track but I have been wanting for an opportunity to speak about this love train theology that seems to have taken a firm foot hold here. It accured to me in this thread that those who promote it and also use it to quiet sound doctrine are the sameones that dispute the validity of the bible.

There is a distinct difference in the two commands Jesus replied to when asked, "what is the greatest command" The second is not like the first. Heres some proof in loving God with your whole heart and soul and mind as it says in the first.

Matthew 10:34 [sup]34[/sup] “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. [sup]35[/sup] For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; [sup]36[/sup] and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’[sup][e][/sup] [sup]37[/sup] He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. [sup]38[/sup] And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. [sup]39[/sup] He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.




The second says, to love your neighbor as yourself. Now that is very different than the first. I don't know about you but Im not keen on loving myself. I know myself way to well. I actually get great comfort a peace in helping others whether they be christian or not. The reality is I give others a greater degree of latitude than I do myself. Like I said I know myself and its not something I like. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

The two commands to love God and love others as yourself are very different. People that fire up the love train at every piece of doctrine they don't like are simply not interested in hearing it and try to convict you, to shut you up. Why? because in this thread they don't believe in the validity of the bible.

The same is true for those that teach love is the only doctrine. They can't tell the difference between loving God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind , and loving others as yourself.

If you love God the same as you love yourself, you probably think you are God. Then you might try picking and choosing the bible passages that God intended and didn't intend. I suggest you try walking on water, let me just say your walking on frozen water, as soon as the Son comes out your going to end up wet.

There are different kinds of love, the love train people need to wake up to that false teaching.


You know, I used to get frustrated when people like Bishop Spong wrote books about improving Christianity by taking the Theism out of it - seriously! He wants to take that little tiny part of Christianity that we do not need anymore - hardly worth mentioning, you know, the God part!

Outrageous - yes

Now I am seeing something just as crazy here - except it isn't God that is being removed from Christianity - it is love. How sad. The only thing we were created to do is love God and our neighbors and now it appears that Christians who seem to really care about the Bible are belittling God's Kingdom in our hearts. Love is our sanctification.

Love is the Kingdom and the work of the Kingdom. We are indeed called to love our neighbors as ourselves - which should be a freeing awesome commandment - not some slog though false humility about how we really shouldn't love ourselves tooooo much. If you really know yourself you will learn patience, kindness, and empathy for others. And the true way to know yourself is to know God - once you feel God's love for you, it is impossible not to love yourself.

You are totally missing the correct interpretation of hating your parents and family - Jesus is talking about hating the tradition we grow up in. The people He was talking to were raised to believe the law - He was trying to show them a new way to think and feel - love is the new standard. Break away from old ways of thinking about heritage and identity and religion.

Also, Jesus didn't say love your enemies lesser than you love your friends which is lesser than you love your family (oops - we are supposed to hate our family), which is lesser than you love God. Why are you trying to make this so complicated? These are the mental gymnastics I refuse to do - it is a waste of time - we are supposed to be loving.

Also, knowing yourself and knowing God are the keys to loving yourself and true humility, which is to know your strength and weaknesses.

I said it before and it is worth repeating

1. If reading the Bible is feeding your ego and encouraging to accuse those around you rather than love, you are in trouble because accusing is the role of the Devil, not man.

2. If we are not loving (practicing our sanctification) it doesn't matter how many verses we memorize we are going to miss the Messiah on His return trip - just like the Pharisees and Sadducees did during His first trip - they knew their scriptures, but the couldn't recognized the source of them starring them in the face because they forgot the most important part of their religion - love.

This post has been edited by aspen: Today, 08:45 PM



There is a balancing act - which balance to me is a hallmark of our Father.

I also see balance as a hallmark of God, but balance is too often seen as weakness or compromise in or modern world and the church. In our present age, people are too afraid of losing rights and privileges to think about others