COVENANTS

Ziggy said:

I have often wondered at this verse:

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham was God's friend.
What did Abraham do that was different or originated that this new/old covenant have or didn't have in it?
We know that circumcision was given to Abraham.
Would that be considered a charge, a commandment (singular)
What are the statutes and laws and commandments in plural?

How many of these were carried over to the Mosaic Covenant?
Thank You
Hugs

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Hello @Ziggy,

The words of God, spoken to Isaac, that you have quoted from Genesis 26:5, is only part of the sentence, which begins at verse 2,

'And the LORD appeared unto him, and said,
.. Go not down into Egypt;
.... dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
...... Sojourn in this land,
........ I will be with thee, and will bless thee;
for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries,
.. and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
.... And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven,
...... and will give unto thy seed all these countries;
........ and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice,
.. and kept my charge,
.... my commandments,
...... my statutes,
........ and my laws. '
(Gen 26:2-5)

* In this verse we see certain instruction given to him by God, 'Go not', 'dwell in', 'Sojourn in': Abraham believed God, and obeyed His voice, kept His charge, and His commandments, statutes and laws, the land was to be given to his offspring, and his seed would be multiplied, and in his seed all the nations of the earth would be blessed. For the Lord Jesus Christ would be born through Isaac's seed.

* Circumcision was part of the covenant made with Abraham, and was required of him and of his offspring as part of that covenant (Genesis 17:7-14).

'Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.
.. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many;
.... but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,
.. the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after,
.... cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise:
.. but God gave it to Abraham by promise.'
Wherefore then serveth the law?
.. It was added because of transgressions,
.... till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
...... and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.'
(Gal 3:16-19)

* Abraham was called a friend of God, (Isaiah 41:8; 2 Chronicles 20:7; James 2:23) because God called Him so; and spoke to Him face to face, as He did with Moses (Exodus 33:11). A friend loveth at all times (Proverbs 17:17); and faithful are the wounds of a friend (Proverbs 7:6); and both Abraham and Moses loved not the world (Hebrews 11:9-10; Hebrews 11:25-26), for friendship with the world is enmity with God (James 4:4).

* Just thoughts, Ziggy.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

charity said:

Wherefore then serveth the law?
.. It was added because of transgressions,

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Transgressions against what do you think?

I don't know, but I found in Moses law, everything that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob everyone before the law had sinned according to the law given Moses who even sinned himself.

The law says you should not take your fathers daughter or your mother's daughter to wed.
Sarah was Abraham's sister on his Father's side? They didn't have the same mother.
Hold on..
Gen 20:5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Gen 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife

Lev 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

So this law of Moses concluded even Abraham as a law breaker.

But before the law... what's that Paul?
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

If death reigned unto Moses.... what happened when the law came?

Until the law, sin was in the world, and death reigned.

And then??

But sin was not imputed to them that were not under the law.
They was like naked and unashamed... before they ate the fruit.. of knowledge of good and evil.
They didn't know it was sin... until they did.
And the law came.. thou shalt not eat, consequence, you will die.
They ate knowlingly...

From Adam unto Moses, no other laws were given?
So even though they sinned they was innocent of knowing it because there was no law.
When the law came.. sin revived and I died.. because I knew better.

And all have sinned. Some under the law and some not under the law.
This time of Grace we are in... is it like the time between Adam and Moses?
No, because we KNOW the law, even though we are not "under the law" ..
how is that?
Not under the law written in stone, but the law written in our hearts that God promised he would give.
There is no escaping what is engraven in the heart.
Not like you can come down a mountain and just break it in pieces and make another one.. like Moses did.

I wonder if Moses broke those tablets when he saw Aaron and company acting out badly..
and was trying to save them by not putting them under the law.
God said, nope.. get back up here and make another set.

Moses knew the law, but until Moses came down from the mountain, Aaron and company were "innocent"
so to speak. They hadn't received the law yet.

Interesting..
lots to think about
Hugs

Was there a covenant between God and Adam?
Other than the not eating of the tree of good and evil?

Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

This is Adam's law.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

I found the rib once before, I forget now what it is.

Now Adam said... he which made them said...

So was Adam speaking the words that God put in his mouth?
This is the first covenant.
The marriage between a man and woman.

Christ and the church.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Eve was deceived but Adam was not.
Yet they are both called Adam by he that created them. Because they were one flesh.
Don't say spirit, says flesh.

God joined them together...
that is Christ and the church.. Adam and Eve.. and they were no more twain, but one flesh.

Right before Noah gets on the ark the whole world had been corrupted.
They were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage... they broke the first covenant between Man and Woman, Adam and Eve, Christ and the church.

God then made a "new" covenant with Noah and his family.
And Ham messed up that covenant by uncovering Noah's.. nakedness.. wife?

Then comes Abraham which married his father's daughter but not his mother's daughter.. his sister.
And Abraham took Hagar to wife as well as Sarah.
But Abraham had faith. And had a promise.

But the people of Sodom and Gomorah where Lot lived... they was covenant breakers as well. Because they went after "strange flesh"
not their own wives. And so poof they was gone.

But the promise remained. Abraham was still cleaving to his wife, even though Sarah told him to take Hagar instead.
Abraham listened to his wife, the way Adam had listened to his wife.
But that didn't break the covenant between man and wife.
Not until the law came.

So somewhere between Abraham and Moses.. that covenant was broken again.
The covenant of propmise. Between Christ and the church. God and Israel. Adam and Eve.
They were in bondage to Pharaoh in Egypt.
God took them out of there through the passover....
He sacrificed himself for his people... how?

And when they came to the mountain He made another "new" covenant.
A new marriage covenant.. which they break.. and made a covenant with death..
how?

thinking..
HUGS

Backlit said:

Transgressions against what do you think? (Response No.1)

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'Because that Abraham obeyed
.. My voice, and kept
.... My charge,
...... My commandments,
........ My statutes, and
.......... My laws.'
(Gen 26:5)

Hello @Backlit,

The word, 'My', is used five times in the verse above for emphasis, five being the number of grace.

- Abraham obeyed God's voice - to be heard and believed (Romans 10:11).
- Abraham kept God's charge - to be observed.
- Abraham kept God's commandments - to be obeyed.
- Abraham kept God's statutes - ie., decrees to be acknowledged.
- Abraham kept God's laws - instruction to be followed.

* You ask a question regarding the word 'transgressions' in (Gal 3:19), saying:-
* Transgressions against what do you think?


* I suggest that it must have been in relation to all of the above
(God's voice, His charge, His commandments, His statutes and His laws)


Thank you
In Christ Jesus

Backlit's question:- * Transgressions against what do you think? (Response No. 2)

Hello [USER=8912]@Backlit

Just some further 'thoughts', in regard to your question (above)

Eve was deceived and transgressed against God's known will, as did Adam (1 Timothy 2:14; Romans 5:14)
Mankind has had the knowledge of good and evil since the fall, and have the law of conscience as their guide, and the heavens declare the glory of God, so they are without excuse. (Romans 1 & 2). Knowledge brings responsibility and therefore culpability, and the prospect of judgment. Yet it is the law that 'worketh wrath', 'where no law is, there is no transgression.' (Rom 4:15), but death reigned from Adam to Moses, because of the law of sin and death, that came into operation at the fall.

'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
.. and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
.... (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
...... Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,
........ even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression),
.......... who is the figure of him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.
.. For if through the offence of one many be dead,
.... much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace,
...... which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.'
(Rom 5:12)

* Paul could say, ' I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.' (Acts 23:1)
He, as a believing Jew could say in his defence, 'But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.' (Act 24:14-16)

* Paul said in Romans 2:14-16:-
'For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
do by nature the things contained in the law,
these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness,
and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.'

* So when you ask the question 'Transgress against what?' There is more than one aspect to consider.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris



[/USER]

charity said:

God's known will,

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Or a spoken Commandment.

charity said:

conscience as their guide,

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And word of mouth from their ancestors. For example, Noah, a preacher of righteousness. The antideluvians had no excuse... Not because every one was relying on conscience, but because they worked God's prophet.

charity said:

where no law is, there is no transgression.' (Rom 4:15),

Click to expand...

Are you suggesting there is now no law, and therefore no transgression?

charity said:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
do by nature the things contained in the law,
these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness,

Click to expand...

That is very rarely relevant today considering the scriptures are so widely disseminated... Free online... Taught on online... God's Commandments and laws are well known.
KJV 1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Of course Christians can pretend there is now no law. What they don't realize is they are going to have to convince God of that.

ReChoired said:

Of course Adam (the first) was not equal to God (the Father) (I never said he was - ever), though the last Adam (Jesus) is (John 1:1c, etc). However, it is not a "man" (Adam) that was broken, but God's Eternal and Holy Law, as sacred as Himself (see below). 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Thus no ordinary created man, no created being, and no amount of created beings (in all the unfallen universe), even all together, could redeem the fallen, pay the ransom, for transgression of that Law, God's own character (Exodus 33:12-23, 24:1-9).

Adam (the first) before the fall had unfallen flesh nature. Christ Jesus (Adam the last) took upon Himself the sinful fallen flesh nature after Adam (the first's) sin. Not even an angel from heaven could give his life for the ransom.

WTS/JW, Arians, Muslims, etc all claim that Jesus is a created being, rather than Deity. Yet, they do not realize the very serious problem they create for themselves in so believing and teaching. They deny their own salvation in so doing, consider:

The Bible says:

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.​

Jesus claimed to be the "I am" (Jesus JEHOVAH (LORD) the eternal Person/Being of the Son, not the Person/Being of the Father (JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days)) , and to those who do not believe this shall remain and die in their sins.

Why?

Heb_1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Isa_63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.​

Jesus, the Son of the Father, Deity, took all the sins of the whole world upon Himself, and bare it "alone". Only Deity could ever do such a thing. Alone. It takes almighty power to do that. It takes someone not below, or beneath the Law. It takes someone equal or above it.

All creation finds its origins in Christ Jesus (The Son, by command of the Father; Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:1-3; Genesis 1; Proverbs 8), which is why He could take the sins of all mankind upon Himself. No created being, no matter how exalted, could ever do what He did. Created beings are amenable (under obligation) to God's law, but it is written of the Son, that He was equal with the Law, the very "fellow" of the Father:

Numbers 19:2 - "... without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:"

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Zec_13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.​

A created being cannot offer up their life as a ransom, for their life is not their own to offer, but is borrowed from The Eternal Life (Deity), and neither could they a single person offer up their life for more than their own life (single).

Pro_22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

Act_17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;​

However, the Son of the Father could, for all creation came from Him (John 1:1-3; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16; Hebrew 1:1-3, etc).

THE MORAL CHARACTER OF GOD AND HIS LAW:

[Quoted and Adapted from: "CAN PERSECUTION ARISE IN AMERICA?"; S. A. KAPLAN; PUBLISHED FOR THE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY ASSOCIATION; WASHINGTON, D.C. 20012; BY THE REVIEW AND HERALD PUBLISHING ASSOCIATION; WASHINGTON, DC 1967] -

https://archive.org/download/church-state-sabbath-s-a-kaplan-can-persecution-arise-in-america/Church & State - Sabbath - S A Kaplan - Can Persecution Arise In America.pdf


[01.]

God is JUST - [Romans 3:26]
His law is JUST - [Romans 7:12]​

[02.]

God is TRUE - [John 3:33]
His law is TRUE - [Nehemiah 9:13]​

[03.]

God is PURE - [1 John 3:3]
His law is PURE - [Psalms 19:7,8]​

[04.]

God is LIGHT - [1 John 1:5]
His law is LIGHT - [Proverbs 6:23]​

[05.]

God is FAITHFUL - [1 Corinthians 1:9]
His law is FAITHFUL - [Psalms 119:86]​

[06.]

God is GOOD - [Nahum 1:7]
His law is GOOD - [Romans 7:12,16]​

[07.]

God is SPIRITUAL - [John 4:24]
His law is SPIRITUAL - [Romans 7:14]​

[08.]

God is HOLY - [Isaiah 6:3; 1 Peter 1:15]
His law is HOLY - [Exodus 20:8; Romans 7:12]​

[09.]

God is TRUTH - [John 14:6]
His law is TRUTH - [Psalms 119:142,151]​

[10.]

God is LIFE - [John 14:6]
His law is LIFE - [Matthew 19:17]​

[11.]

God is RIGHTEOUSNESS - [Jeremiah 23:6]
His law is RIGHTEOUSNESS - [Psalms 119:172]​

[12.]

God is PERFECT - [Matthew 5:48]
His law is PERFECT - [James 1:25]​

[13.]

God is ETERNAL - [John 8:35]
His law is ETERNAL - [Psalms 111:7,8]​

[14.]

God is PEACE - [Isaiah 9:6]
His law is PEACE - [Psalms 119:165]​

[15.]

God is THE WAY - [John 14:6]
His law is THE WAY - [Psalms 119:30-32]​

[16.]

God is SURE - [2 Timothy 2:19]
His law is SURE - [Psalms 19:7, 111:7,8]​

[17.]

God is UNCHANGING - [Malachi 3:6]
His law is UNCHANGING - [Psalms 111:7,8]​

[18.]

God is SWEET - [Psalms 34:8]
His law is SWEET - [Psalms 19:10, 119:103]​

[19.]

God is WISE - [Psalms 111:10]
His law is WISE - [Psalms 19:7]​

[20.]

God is OUR MEDITATION - [Psalms 63:6]
His law is OUR MEDITATION - [Psalms 1:2]​

[21.]

God is JUDGE - [Psalms 50:6]
His law is JUDGE - [James 2:12]​

[22.]

God is ENLIGHTENMENT - [Psalms 18:27]
His law is ENLIGHTENMENT - [Psalms 19:8]​

[23.]

God is LOVE - [1 John 4:7,8]
His law is LOVE - [Romans 13:8-10]​

[24.]

God is CLEAN - [Psalms 19:9]
His law is CLEAN - [Ezekiel 22:26]​

[25.]

God is BLESSED - [Psalms 28:6]
His law is BLESSED - [Exodus 20:11]​

[26.]

God is DELIGHT - [Psalms 37:4]
His law is DELIGHT - [Psalms 1:2]​

[27.]

God is WONDERFUL - [Isaiah 9:6]
His law is WONDERFUL - [Psalms 119:18]​

[28.]

God is LIBERTY - [Isaiah 61:1]
His law is LIBERTY - [James 1:25; Psalms 119:45]​

[29.]

God is COMFORT - [Psalms 23:4]
His law is COMFORT - [Psalms 119:50]​

[30.]

God is OUR SONG - [Revelation 15:3]
His law is OUR SONG - [Psalms 119:54]​

[31.]

God is MERCIFUL - [Exodus 34:5]
His law is MERCIFUL - [Psalms 119:58]​

[32.]

God is KNOWLEDGE - [Isaiah 11:2]
His law is KNOWLEDGE - [Psalms 119:66]​

[33.]

God is HOPE - [Psalms 130:7]
His law is HOPE - [Psalms 119:74]​

[34.]

God is LIFE - [Psalms 36:9]
His law is LIFE - [Proverbs 3:1,2]​

[35.]

God is SOUND - [Proverbs 8:13,14]
His law is SOUND - [Psalms 119:80]​

[36.]

God is UNDERSTANDING - [Psalms 147:5]
His law is UNDERSTANDING - [Psalms 119:99]​

[37.]

God is HAPPINESS - [Psalms 146:5]
His law is HAPPINESS - [Proverbs 29:18]​

[38.]

God is JOY - [Psalms 16:11]
His law is JOY - [Psalms 119:162]
​

Sadly, so very sadly, Robert, if you do not let go of this error of yours (really WTS), you will die in your sins, you cannot ever enter the Kingdom of God. I do not rejoice in such a thing. It is too painful. Your time to accept the truth is almost up.

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Jesus is not equal to Jehovah sir. Jn 14:28; 1 Cor 11:3; Acts 2:34

Robert Gwin said:

Jesus is not equal to Jehovah sir. Jn 14:28; 1 Cor 11:3; Acts 2:34

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A Son would not be a righteous Son if He were not in subjection to His Father. He is His Father's Son. And He takes the name of His Father. God.

Backlit said:

Are you suggesting there is now no law, and therefore no transgression?

Click to expand...

I think where no law is, one cannot be convicted of a crime.

Before the law came, there was no one being convicted (stoned, whatever) for their crimes.
They were NAKED and UNASHAMED.
And then the commandment came... THOU SHALT NOT EAT.
As soon as the commandment came, covetousness was revealed in EVE. She coveted the fruit.
Adam coveted the fruit and listened to his wife.
If the commandment had never come, they could have eaten of that tree freely without any conviction whatsoever.

They could not be found guilty of a crime, where there is no law against it.
Doesn't mean crime didn't exist, just means they couldn't be held accountable.

That is how I understand it.
Hugs

Backlit said:

Or a spoken Commandment.

And word of mouth from their ancestors. For example, Noah, a preacher of righteousness. The antideluvians had no excuse... Not because every one was relying on conscience, but because they worked God's prophet.

Are you suggesting there is now no law, and therefore no transgression?

* That is very rarely relevant today considering the scriptures are so widely disseminated... Free online... Taught on online... God's Commandments and laws are well known.
KJV 1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Of course Christians can pretend there is now no law. What they don't realize is they are going to have to convince God of that.

Click to expand...

Hello @Backlit,

So much of the law given at Sinai related to simply 'loving your neighbour as yourself', didn't it? Dealing with disputes between fellow men: eg., if you accidently killed your neighbours cow; transgressions of that nature. So your question, 'Transgression against 'what' do you think?' also very much encompassed trespasses against one another. Trespasses such as these required laws which protected the rights of the individual and maintained order within the community of the children of Israel.

* Yes 'word of mouth', and the preaching of such as Noah or Enoch would have made mankind aware of what was God's will for them: so there need be no doubt that God did not leave them without instruction. I love the example of Job, who as head of his household, when his sons and daughters were feasting (Job 1:5), sent and sanctified them, rising early in the morning, and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all: 'for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.' This was his continual practice as a Husband, Father and Head of his household. It is in the home that the knowledge of God should be made known, as part of the believers parental responsibility.

* Also regarding Cain and Abel and their approach to God by means of sacrifice: Abel acted out of faith when he brought the lamb (Hebrews 11:4), so as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, he had to have been told what God required, as would his brother, Cain. Who better for that than Adam himself, who knew firsthand was it meant to transgress against a Holy God.

Backlit said:-
Are you suggesting there is now no law, and therefore no transgression?

Click to expand...

* No I am not suggesting anything of that sort,@ Blacklit. My thoughts were entirely within the realm of Scripture, and the state of affairs prior to the giving of the law. I have just been enjoying thinking your question through to it's limits, for which I thank you.

Just thoughts.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Backlit said:

A Son would not be a righteous Son if He were not in subjection to His Father. He is His Father's Son. And He takes the name of His Father. God.

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You got it backlit! Jesus is subjected to his Father, but only to Him.

... i'm too old [...insert Lethal Weapon quote..]

what are you guys talking about ?

don't you see that "the covenant of Christ"
was 'to restore the fallen soul to God' ,

and that this covenant was to introduce the one about to start now :
God's covenant ,
often repeated in prophets ,
as 'the return of the eden paradise [-in the other reality]"...?

what are you TALKING about
if you don't even get the BASICS ...?

even from the [both-] covenants THEMSELVES
it is clear WHO holds WHAT position !!

How do you hear this?
Thank You

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Hugs

- instead , start from the Isaiah chapter
where God announces the spirits world [=demonic world]
"I am telling you in front :
it was Christ's idea to do my will
[=namely : saving our souls from this PRISON PLANET]
and he will assume that hateful image
[=he means : our type body]
in order to save the souls who believe in Him"

No word Spanish there .

Now
the son - having the nature of his Father : that is a deity nature
had to - by choice - incarnate into this 2.0 pimped APE BODY .

Please resume your discussion now .

Robert Gwin said:

You got it backlit! Jesus is subjected to his Father, but only to Him.

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No Robert. I ain't got it in the way you'd like to think. I don't think you are actually listening to the information being freely offered you.

ReChoired said:

Do you want to study the context and the verses you gave and actually understand what they say, or do you merely want to assert the false WTS position?

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Pretty clear to me sir, no need.