Matthew 28:19 – Trinity corrupted verse

keithr · Jul 29, 2021

theefaith said:
Acts 2:38 the command to be baptized is in the name of Jesus not the baptism itself

It does not say, 'In the name of Jesus, I command you to be baptised', it says:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ...

For 2000 yrs the church has always baptized in the name of the father and the son and the Holy Spirit!

The written evidence would suggest otherwise.

keithr · Jul 29, 2021

Davy said:
From TorahResource (Matthew 28:19: A Text Critical Investigation)

"One would expect that if, indeed, Matthew’s original (whether one presumes a Greek or Hebrew original, or both) did not include the tripartite phrase, that at least some early witnesses to this original would have remained. But not one single witness, early or late, gives evidence that 28:19 ever existed without the tripartite phrase. When we look at the versions the same situation obtains. The Syriac Peshitta (in all of its extant witnesses), the Vulgate, the Coptic, the Slovak versions—all have the tripartite phrase."

The TorahResource writer was obviously ignorant of the writings of Eusebius, who was an early witness that Matthew 28:19 did exist without the tripartiite phrase!

theefaith · Jul 29, 2021

keithr said:
It does not say, 'In the name of Jesus, I command you to be baptised', it says:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ...

The written evidence would suggest otherwise.

We are not allowed to read scripture for ourselves and make up our own doctrine, we must be humble enough to be taught by Christ and his church thru his apostles

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42 Acts 8

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

God always establishes order in obedience to hierarchical authority of fathers! Heb 13:17

We must be taught by Christ, thru His church by the apostles, Jn 16:13 Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4
Lk 24:27 acts 8:30-31 thee faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

tsr · Jul 29, 2021

It must be remembered that we have no known manuscripts that were written in the first, second or third centuries. There is a gap of over three hundred years between when Matthew wrote his epistle and our earliest manuscript copies. (It also took over three hundred years for the Catholic Church to evolve into what the “early church fathers” wanted it to become.)

Eusebius was the Bishop of Caesarea and is known as “the Father of Church History.” He wrote prolifically and his most celebrated work is his Ecclesiastical History, a history of the Church from the Apostolic period until his own time. Eusebius quotes many verses in his writings including Matthew 28:19 several times. But he never quotes it as it appears in modern Bibles. He always finishes the verse with the words “in my name.

David in NJ · Jul 29, 2021

Wrangler said:
Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board

This is a simple matter to resolve - No Elohim Trinity No Salvation for Man - Truth for Children of God

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 1And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exodus 3:14-17

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58

When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of Truth who proceeds from the Father--He will testify about Me. John 15:26

WARNING: This Truth is only for the Redeemed of Christ !!! Trying to understand without faith in the Word will cause spiritual blindness.

theefaith · Jul 29, 2021

David in NJ said:
This is a simple matter to resolve - No Elohim Trinity No Salvation for Man - Truth for Children of God

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 1And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exodus 3:14-17

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58

When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of Truth who proceeds from the Father--He will testify about Me. John 15:26

WARNING: This Truth is only for the Redeemed of Christ !!! Trying to understand without faith in the Word will cause spiritual blindness.

1st all men are redeemed
2nd what happened to call no man father
3rd I agree with the trinity

Wrangler · Jul 29, 2021

David in NJ said:
This is a simple matter to resolve - No Elohim Trinity No Salvation for Man - Truth for Children of God

Quite the assertion, completely divorced from the point - and challenge made.

Wrangler · Jul 29, 2021

tsr said:
Eusebius was the Bishop of Caesarea and is known as “the Father of Church History.” He wrote prolifically and his most celebrated work is his Ecclesiastical History, a history of the Church from the Apostolic period until his own time. Eusebius quotes many verses in his writings including Matthew 28:19 several times. But he never quotes it as it appears in modern Bibles. He always finishes the verse with the words “in my name.

A point made in the link I made. THE historian who got the earliest manuscripts had it different. Only Jesus - not the 3.

David in NJ · Jul 29, 2021

Wrangler said:
Quite the assertion, completely divorced from the point - and challenge made.

The Challenge is this - Do you not believe Wrangler?

Do you not believe, Philip, that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I have spoken to you," Jesus said to his disciples, "do not come from me. The Father, who remains in me, does his own work. - John 14:10

Wrangler · Jul 29, 2021

David in NJ said:
The Challenge is this - Do you not believe Wrangler?

Do you not believe, Philip, that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I have spoken to you," Jesus said to his disciples, "do not come from me. The Father, who remains in me, does his own work. - John 14:10

Your problem is you are starting from your doctrine - and looking for verses that support it. This is why you are desperate to sweep away verses you don't like and put verses up for discussion you do like. You are ignoring the challenge of how does the inherently contradictory doctrine of the trinity NOT violate the singular pronoun of "me" in the 1C? (The trinity is plural, except for when it aint).

David in NJ · Jul 29, 2021

Wrangler said:
Your problem is you are starting from your doctrine - and looking for verses that support it. This is why you are desperate to sweep away verses you don't like and put verses up for discussion you do like. You are ignoring the challenge of how does the inherently contradictory doctrine of the trinity NOT violate the singular pronoun of "me" in the 1C? (The trinity is plural, except for when it aint).

Sola Scriptura

theefaith · Jul 29, 2021

David in NJ said:
Sola Scriptura

What is sola scripture?

Ronald Nolette · Jul 29, 2021

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
As I told Marymog,
Yes it's true that I quoted some material online that said Matthew 28:19 had been adjusted or changed, but I didn't say I knew for a fact that this was true. I was simply answering a post of some material I found online that various Encyclopedias had said adjustments had been made to Matthew 28:19. However none of the people who I quoted I don't believe we're trying to disprove the Trinity, they're not JW or non-trinitarians. They just found very old sources that showed that Matthew 28:19 had been adjusted. So I wasn't trying to say anything other than the fact I had found some people online who were saying that various Encyclopedias were saying that Matthew 28:19 had been adjusted or changed.

It really doesn't concern me that much if Matthew 28:19 has or hasn't been adjusted. I don't believe nor have I ever believed that Matthew 28:19 has any kind of Trinity doctrine teaching there. There's no place in Matthew 28:19 that says that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all the same person or that all three are coequal or coeternal. Plus Jesus says himself in Matthew 28:18 that all authority had been given to him. I don't believe that someone gave The Only True God his authority, he has always had his authority. So since someone gave Jesus his authority that someone has to be Jesus Father and God.

You will find nowhere in the scriptures that the Apostles used that exact phrase, "baptize in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit," when baptizing people. Instead people were "baptized in the name of Jesus and there was nothing wrong with that. (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:48; Acts 19:5) So if any person or religious organization says it's wrong to baptize people in the name of Jesus Christ because they're not using the exact phrase, "baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and Holy Spirit," those people who are saying you were not baptized right, because they're saying the phrase, "baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit" were not used when you were baptized, don't listen to them, there's nothing wrong with being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Well I agree with you that Matt. 28 is not a verse that proves the Trinity. explicitly to us. but back in the days of Jesus to be baptized in three names as a disciple was to accept them as divine! One never was baptized in the name of a rabbi or false god (in Israel that is) but a Baptism as a confession of faith as this is acknowledges the three are God. that is just history.

Davy · Jul 29, 2021

keithr said:
The TorahResource writer was obviously ignorant of the writings of Eusebius, who was an early witness that Matthew 28:19 did exist without the tripartiite phrase!

No, actually he wasn't. You just got a hold of corrupt sources, as others here have also remarked.

David in NJ · Jul 29, 2021

theefaith said:
What is sola scripture?

It is what the Vatican fears the most.

theefaith · Jul 29, 2021

David in NJ said:
It is what the Vatican fears the most.

What’s the Vatican?

theefaith · Jul 29, 2021

Where is Bible alone in the Bible?
Acts 2:42

David in NJ · Jul 29, 2021

theefaith said:
Where is Bible alone in the Bible?
Acts 2:42

Acts 2:42 " And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

The Apostles doctrine is Sola Scriptura

And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:20

David in NJ · Jul 29, 2021

theefaith said:
Where is Bible alone in the Bible?
Acts 2:42

The Lord Jesus Christ taught Sola Scriptura to His Disciples and to anyone who "had an ear to hear and believe His Words" Mark 4:9

BARNEY BRIGHT · Jul 29, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
Well I agree with you that Matt. 28 is not a verse that proves the Trinity. explicitly to us. but back in the days of Jesus to be baptized in three names as a disciple was to accept them as divine! One never was baptized in the name of a rabbi or false god (in Israel that is) but a Baptism as a confession of faith as this is acknowledges the three are God. that is just history.

Well, the only history I see of people being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, if that's what you're talking about, is after the death of the Apostles and that's human history not the Biblical history of the Apostles as far as I can see. All scripture that I've seen of the Apostles baptizing people, they were baptized in the name of Jesus. (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:48; Acts 19:5)
I don't recall anywhere in the scriptures of the Apostles using the phrase or saying, baptize them in the name of the Father of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, but instead they said to baptize people in the name of Jesus, which is reasonable to me since it wasn't the Father or the Holy Spirit that died for mankind it was the Only Begotten Son Jesus who died for mankind so it's understandable to me that we, as the scriptures say, are baptized in Jesus death. People making a big deal about someone being baptized and that person isn't baptized using the phrase, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and they say that person isn't baptized properly, well I don't think the Apostles were baptizing people improperly when they baptized people in Jesus name.

Matthew 28:19 – Trinity corrupted verse

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