Christ only died for past sins...

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Did Christ's sacrifice only count for past sins?

  • Only past sins are forgiven. We must maintain our salvation by not sinning.

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Christ's sacrifice was all sufficient for all of the believers sins.

    Votes: 17 89.5%

  • Total voters
    19

FHII

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Is He going to throw you into hell over a single sin? No. But a lifestyle of sin leads to unbelief. So every sin must go
Well Wynona, this is a problem. How many sins beyond a "single" sin will God forgive? Where is the cutoff line?

Furthermore, James, Paul and Jesus all said in one way or another that if you are guilty of one sin you are guilty of the whole law. Jesus even said if we think about it, we are guilty (he was speaking on looking on a woman to lust... Not actually committing the act.) Frankly, that's more than any man or woman can bear. I've been married for almost 20 years but I would be lying to say I never checked out another gal. My wife knows that and gives me that pass as its just the flesh. And she got a thing for that actor Shemar Moore, so I give her that pass as well.

Oversharing... I know... But if forgiveness of sins is just for past sins then the sacrifice of Jesus is no better than the sacrifice of bulls and bullocks.

I urge people not to sin. Martin Luther may have said, "Sin boldly, but believe more boldly!" Well, I agree with the point he was making and you have to understand his quirky humor. But I dont urge anyone to sin. But if you do, you are forgiven. That comes directly from scripture:

1 John 2:1 KJV
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
 

Wynona

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This is speaking of a person who forgets that they have been forgiven of sins they've already committed. But this does not teach us that some sins are not forgiven.

Jesus said all sin will be forgiven man except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which the Bible defines as those who saw Jesus' miracles claiming He did them by an unclean spirit, calling the Holy Spirit a demon.

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses against them. Behold the Lamb of God Who carries away the sin of the world.


That's not the point. Legalistic thinking - that our salvation is dependent on our ability to always obey - works directly against us. It makes it harder for us to obey because our flesh becomes incited to rebel.

The real avoidance of sin is found in God's grace, His forgiveness of sins, and giving to us Jesus.

Much love!

Hey marks, I want to start out by saying I enjoy debating with you and I consider you to be a brother in Christ.

What you speak of about legalism inciting the flesh to rebel has simply not been my experience.

The goodness of the Lord and the grace of God motivate us to do right---I agree with you there. But it does not allow us to feel comfortable in sin. It causes us to hate sin and want to obey the Lord at all times.

My experience is that sin used to mop up the floor with me. But as I read the Word of God and how it emphasizes obedience, I became more obedient and then that obedience started to bear fruit as my whole life became blessed as a result.

While I was in sin, I couldn't experience the fullness of being blessed. It created shame, hurt my husband, and caused a distance between me and God that I never want to experience again.

Popular bible teacher and theologians simply led me astray. They are not as tough on sin as the Bible is.

But my relationship with God is not that of some taskmaster waiting for me to slip up. Its always His mercy and goodness that inspires me to get back up and walk in the Spirit once more.

But sin is a taskmaster. I was enslaved to it and I never want to be again.

Walking in righteousness is not this impossible unattainable goal. Its the righteousness of Christ working in us to make us like Him!
 

Enoch111

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But if forgiveness of sins is just for past sins then the sacrifice of Jesus is no better than the sacrifice of bulls and bullocks.
That is a very misleading statement. What saith the Word?

PAST SINS ARE FORGIVEN UPON CONVERSION
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God (Rom 3:25)

REPENTANCE IS NECESSARY FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:47)Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19)

So it should be perfectly clear that at the point of conversion (which includes repentance) past sins are forgiven and blotted out. But while the sacrifice of Christ paid for ALL sins, the application of that sacrifice requires confession and repentance in the future (1 John 1). Christians are exhorted over an over again to mortify the flesh and walk in the Spirit.

But Christians who persist in sinning have to face God's chastisement, including, and up to, "the sin unto death":
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (Heb 12:5-8).

Why does the Bible say "whereof all are partakers"? Because all Christians can and do sin. And they must deal with their sins. Not assume that they have already been forgiven.
 

marks

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Why does the Bible say "whereof all are partakers"? Because all Christians can and do sin. And they must deal with their sins. Not assume that they have already been forgiven.
They are dealt with, between ourselves and God. But they are forgiven just the same. That's what allows us to deal with God over our sins. But not just in seeking after the fact forgiveness, but also in immediate overcoming, in finding the source of rejoicing during suffering and affliction, and even when the flesh is lusting for evil things. Even when the flesh is gratifying it's lust for evil things.

We can see ourselves, and what we think of ourselves, and close ourselves off, from God, from each other, we feel dirty, or we feel pathetic, or we feel whatever we feel, but we hide. And then we have to make things right with God, get reconciled again, by confessing, asking forgiveness.

I'm just speaking from my own life really, but I think this is common to people.

But when we come to understand that not only have all sins been forgiven us, that we will never again be under condemnation for sin, but that we also become a different person from the one who is the sinner, then our hearts can be fully open to God in trust and dependence. Then we walk in His Spirit, and don't sin.

I've learned the quickest way to stop sin in it's tracks in me is to remind myself, that God is here with me now my loving Father, not holding even this against me! He's here loving me. And generally speaking by the time that thought finishes running through my head the force of the flesh evaporates.

It's that fear of punishment, of disappointing God, we cannot disappoint Him, He already knows everything we will do.

My desire, my intent, it to spend every moment of my life centered on the fact of my reconciliation to my Creator, found in Christ.

Much love!
 

FHII

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That is a very misleading statement. What saith the Word?

PAST SINS ARE FORGIVEN UPON CONVERSION
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God (Rom 3:25)

REPENTANCE IS NECESSARY FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:47)Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19)

So it should be perfectly clear that at the point of conversion (which includes repentance) past sins are forgiven and blotted out. But while the sacrifice of Christ paid for ALL sins, the application of that sacrifice requires confession and repentance in the future (1 John 1). Christians are exhorted over an over again to mortify the flesh and walk in the Spirit.

But Christians who persist in sinning have to face God's chastisement, including, and up to, "the sin unto death":
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (Heb 12:5-8).

Why does the Bible say "whereof all are partakers"? Because all Christians can and do sin. And they must deal with their sins. Not assume that they have already been forgiven.
No... It ain't misleading. You are just picking the verses that suite your belief. Quite frankly, if you read all of Hebrews you would understand that.
 
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marks

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No... It ain't misleading. You are just picking the verses that suite your belief. Quite frankly, if you read all of Hebrews you would understand that.
That's what I've been reading lately, especially chapters 6-10 at the moment.

Much love!
 
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FHII

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That's what I've been reading lately, especially chapters 6-10 at the moment.

Much love!
I tend to be heavy in Hebrews 10-14, but you are right... But the 10th chapter really details the difference.
 

marks

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I tend to be heavy in Hebrews 10-14, but you are right... But the 10th chapter really details the difference.
I've been meditating on Jesus' priesthood more lately, so more into the earlier chapters. Yes, on this point, 10 is totally explicit teaching.

Much love!
 
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Psalm51

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But You, O Lord, are a God full of
compassion, and gracious,
Longsuffering and abundant in mercy and truth.

(Psalms 86:15)

What we know is that God is "longsuffering and abundant in mercy and truth". How long is He willing to bear with us? How abundant is He in mercy and truth? Does it really matter? If someone were to spill the beans and say, "It is known, Christ only died for your past sins," are you really going to stop repenting before the LORD everytime you sin? Or are you going to "endure to the end," for righteousness' sake?

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.

(1 Corinthians 4:5)

Let us not worry about these semantics, let us continue steadfast, not judging anything before the time. Our book will be opened and we will answer to all our works before God, good and bad, before we believed in Christ and after we accepted Him as our Lord and Savior. Let us just have faith in the Lord and listen to our hearts, which is where we may usually find the answer as to whether we are on the right path or not...
 
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Taken

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Jesus died for ALL sin past, present and future for those that believe and accept Him

Men in Christ are forgiven their sin Against God.
Once Forgiven and Converted they no longer, by the Power of the Holy Spirit IN THEM, are Able to Sin Against God, ever again.

Jews, Catholics, and any other groups who continues to Sin, and repeatedly ask God for Forgiveness....according to Scripture, are not "born again".

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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It should ultimately come down to this or you never really understood Christianity—- “ Love God and live as you please....”
 

Curtis

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So I've been encountering this position a lot lately, that Christ's once-for-all sacrifice at Calvary only covers the past sins of Christians. Such a position is held by a number of believers in Christ who seem to think that Christ's eternal sacrifice is in some way, shape or form, insufficient to cover the sins of a person throughout the duration of their lifetime, and fails to regenerate them for the life to come should they accidentally sin. I will now delve into why I think this argument fails to hold water and also why I believe it is borderline heresy in that it removes the focus of salvation off of Christ and places it upon the good, law abiding behavior of the person.

"

Galatians 3:10-12
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”

Let's say we have someone who doesn't think that Jesus could possibly take away all her sins and that she must maintain her status pre-glorification. Let's say she takes a walk to work, meets an individual at the bus loop, and fails to tell them about Jesus when she feels the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

She has now committed a sin of omission. Her slate is tarnished. She is immediately struck and killed by the bus. She believes in Jesus Christ as her Lord and savior, but she failed to confess and repent of the sin of omission she just committed at the bus stop. My question to those who think that Jesus only saves from past sins is this: "is she saved?" Because this position is pretty much legalism defined. I coin the phrase "revolving door salvationism"


Thank you for reading and may God bless you today. Hebrews 10:12-14

And the reason you’re hearing it is because the Bible corrects human reasoning with scripture.

Since Jesus died for all sins, the natural ASSUMPTION is that at salvation, all sins, past, present, and future, are forgiven.

However, when scripture plainly and clearly says that OLD SINS, and SINS THAT ARE PAST are forgiven, and also makes clear that believers need to repent of their sins after salvation for God to forgive them, then it’s time to drop OUR logical reasoning, and believe instead, what God said.

Jesus took the all sins of the world on the cross - yet everyone isn’t saved - because only those with faith and repentance have His atonement for sins applied to them.


We must choose to repent of our sins as part of our conversion and so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19 ; Acts 20:21), but as it turns out, we can’t pre-repent of FUTURE sins - so only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins, as scripture proves:


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;


So the hyper-grace doctrine which assumes all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.

Hyper-grace preachers such as Joseph Prince, indeed teach their followers that because all future sins were forgiven at salvation, there’s no need to ever repent again as a Christian.

But Jesus never got that memo - He warned 4 out of 7 churches in Revelation, to repent.

In fact the risen Jesus not only warned the church at Sardis to repent, he warned them they WERE DEAD, and that unless they became overcomers, He would blot their name out of the book of life.

There’s obviously no reason to a Christian would ever need to repent,mif all sins, even future sins, are automatically forgiven with salvation.

So the truth is that after salvation, sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.


That’s why the apostle John wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If WE confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Note that the apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to BELIEVERS .


To those who still deny 1 John is to the brethren, here’s John’s own words, proving it is:


1Jn 2:7 BRETHREN, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.


That 1 John 1:9 is to believers is further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If WE say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The other evidence that future sins need repented of after committing them, is the many warnings to the brethren by Paul, that specifically warns us to BE NOT DECEIVED by anyone’s words that say otherwise, because if we are a drunk, a thief, an adulterer, or murderer, etc, we won’t be going to heaven.

Paul warns some of the believers that they are defrauding their brethren, (which is stealing, being a thief) then warns them that stealing, and other sins, will keep them from heaven:


1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD and that your - BRETHREN.


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES (such as those who DEFRAUD their brethren, verse 8) nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Another warning by Paul, to the saints of God, about living a sinful lifestyle as a child of God:


Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;


Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.


Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


Eph 5:6 Let no man DECEIVE you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH them.

I could have posted many more of Paul’s warnings, about not being deceived that we as believers can live an unrepentant and sinful lifestyle and waltz into heaven.

Bottom line- a believer can’t get to heaven, while living like hell.

How many who read this, have ever noticed that Paul went so far as to say that our sanctification is to avoid sexual sins?

Maranatha
 

Curtis

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It should ultimately come down to this or you never really understood Christianity—- “ Love God and live as you please....”

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;


Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.


Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


Eph 5:6 Let no man DECEIVE you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH them.

You: love God and do as you please.

Paul: let no man deceive you with vain words.

 

FHII

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Curtis....

There are a few problems. First of all, if the sacrifice of Jesus only covers past sins, how is he different from a bull or bullock? Because sacrificing those animals also covered past sins.

Hebrews 10:2-4 KJV
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. [4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Contrast that with Jesus:

John 1:29 KJV
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

The sacrifice of Jesus had to be greater than that which was required by the old Covenent. And when you read Hebrews 10, it is evident that Jesus's sacrifice allies to future sins as well:

Hebrews 10:10,12,14 KJV
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; [14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Lets also talk about 1 Cor 6... You got your quotes and I agree with them (not your conclusion, but with the scripture). But you don't seem to quote this one:

1 Corinthians 6:12 KJV
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Context is pretty important here... Paul's pissed that they did it, but he still says that grace covers it.

So you have your verses that talk about passed sins being forgiven, and I agree. But you really aren't talking about verses that say all manner of sin shall be forgiven, or that God will not impute sin (thats future tense). You don't talk about how when sin abounds, grace does much more abound (thats present tense).

As for repentance, I believe we must! But if you are going to repent for every daily sin you do... I mean, where do you find the time? And do you really quit doing those sins?

All of them?
 
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Michiah-Imla

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It doesn’t matter what the Holy Bible says for those who erroneously say that future sins are forgiven.

The scriptures say no such things!

People just repeat what they hear from people instead of just repeating what the Holy Bible says.

The scriptures are clear:

"How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Romans 6:2)

I don’t know Paul.

These people don’t get it apparently…
 
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Curtis

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Hyper grace says Christians are free to sin as much as they want.

Paul disagrees:

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Rom 6:2 God forbid! How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6:12 Sin must no longer rule in your mortal bodies, so that you obey the desires of your natural self.

Rom 6:13 Nor must you surrender any part of yourselves to sin to be used for wicked purposes. Instead, give yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life, and surrender your whole being to him to be used for righteous purposes.

Rom 6:14 Sin must not be your master; for you do not live under law but under God's grace.

Rom 6:15 What, then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law but under God's grace? God forbid!

Rom 6:16 Surely you know that when you surrender yourselves as slaves to obey someone, you are in fact the slaves of the master you obey—either of sin, which results in death, or of obedience, which results in being put right with God.

Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God! For though at one time you were slaves to sin, you have obeyed with all your heart the truths found in the teaching you received.

Rom 6:18 You were set free from sin and became the slaves of righteousness.

Rom 6:19 At one time you surrendered yourselves entirely as slaves to impurity and wickedness for wicked purposes. In the same way you must now surrender yourselves entirely as slaves of righteousness for holy purposes.

Rom 6:20 When you were the slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness.

Rom 6:21 What did you gain from doing the things that you are now ashamed of ? The result of those things is death!

Rom 6:22 But now you have been set free from sin and are the slaves of God. Your gain is a life fully dedicated to him, and the result is eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For sin pays its wage—death; but God's free gift is eternal life in union with Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Curtis

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Curtis....

There are a few problems. First of all, if the sacrifice of Jesus only covers past sins, how is he different from a bull or bullock? Because sacrificing those animals also covered past sins.

Hebrews 10:2-4 KJV
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. [4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Contrast that with Jesus:

John 1:29 KJV
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

The sacrifice of Jesus had to be greater than that which was required by the old Covenent. And when you read Hebrews 10, it is evident that Jesus's sacrifice allies to future sins as well:

Hebrews 10:10,12,14 KJV
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; [14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Lets also talk about 1 Cor 6... You got your quotes and I agree with them (not your conclusion, but with the scripture). But you don't seem to quote this one:

1 Corinthians 6:12 KJV
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Context is pretty important here... Paul's pissed that they did it, but he still says that grace covers it.

So you have your verses that talk about passed sins being forgiven, and I agree. But you really aren't talking about verses that say all manner of sin shall be forgiven, or that God will not impute sin (thats future tense). You don't talk about how when sin abounds, grace does much more abound (thats present tense).

As for repentance, I believe we must! But if you are going to repent for every daily sin you do... I mean, where do you find the time? And do you really quit doing those sins?

All of them?

I gave the scriptures that say old sins and past sins are forgiven at salvation, ill stick with scripture.

His sacrifice was for all the sins of the world, once for all time, but God can choose how that sacrifice is applied to us, which requirements are faith and repentance- but when scripture specifies only past sins and old sins are forgiven at salvation, it becomes obvious that we cant PRE-REPENT of our sins before they are committed, thus we must repent of future sins as they are committed, for them to also be forgiven

And as I also said, 1 John 1 confirms that we must confess our sins as Christians, to be cleansed of them.

That’s really not a hard concept to understand- but even if we couldn’t figure our any possible reason why only old sins and past sins are forgiven at salvation- all we are required to do is believe the scriptures, and not our logical reasoning.

Also, Paul lists the sins that will keep a believer out of heaven - many people call them the death penalty sins, and the list isn’t every little sin that can be committed, but adultery, lying, murder, stealing, homosexual relations, drunkenness, etc.

If a believer is committing so many of those listed sins daily that they can’t keep up with repenting of them, I would question whether they’ve ever been born again, and became a new creation, with old things passing away, and all things becoming new.

Shalom Aleichem
 
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