Where was the church at Babylon?

n2thelight · Aug 1, 2021

I Peter 5:13 "The [church that is] at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son."

Between the word "the" and "at" is missing from the original text, and has been added by the translators. "Church that is" is not given by Peter. It was placed there to make the sentence flow in English, however it should not be there. The word that was added was "ekklesia", which in the Greek tongue means, "the called out ones". However the word that should have been added was, "diaspora", which means "the dispersal", or the "house of Israel", the ten tribes who this letter is addressed to. This adding of the word "church" in English is proper to give it meaning, however they assigned the wrong address or noun. It was addressed to those "that were scattered abroad" of God's elect, and it is not directed to the different established churches.

The believers that are at Babylon send their greetings, as well as Marcus, who would be John Mark, the author of the book of Mark, one of the gospels. Mark was just a small boy when Jesus was ministering, and Peter grew to be very fond of him. Babylon does not necessarily mean the location of Babylon, but the word means confusion, and is in reference Peter's visiting those that were from the dispersion of the house of Israel, and not the Jews. Peter started this book by addressing the Christians of the ten tribes, so that is how he ended his letter by saluting the same people or "stranger that were scattered abroad". .

theefaith · Aug 1, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
Strange, I could have sworn that Isaiah 43:10 was penned prior to that sir, but what do I know.

cannot be applied to JW’s
It’s a modern cult founded by
Charles Taze Russell
Origin 1870s Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S.
Not founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
Not universal

amadeus · Aug 1, 2021

quietthinker said:
Where was the church at Babylon?
In your back yard; although you don't recognise it!

Perhaps even in the living room of his house?

amigo de christo · Aug 1, 2021

theefaith said:
cannot be applied to JW’s
It’s a modern cult founded by
Charles Taze Russell
Origin 1870s Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S.
Not founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
Not universal

While what you said is true . You cannot see the hyprocrisy .
The watch tower is not the only cult my friend . The largest cult , IS THE RCC .
The mormons are not the only cult . We have us many cults these days and they all coming Home to the mother of cults , THE RCC .
It is time , my friend , it is time , my friend that you leave her chambers .
IF GOD spared one as wicked as i once was , BELIEVE ME , IF YOU RUN to the biblical CHRIST , YOU TOO can be spared .

theefaith · Aug 1, 2021

amigo de christo said:
While what you said is true . You cannot see the hyprocrisy .
The watch tower is not the only cult my friend . The largest cult , IS THE RCC .
The mormons are not the only cult . We have us many cults these days and they all coming Home to the mother of cults , THE RCC .
It is time , my friend , it is time , my friend that you leave her chambers .
IF GOD spared one as wicked as i once was , BELIEVE ME , IF YOU RUN to the biblical CHRIST , YOU TOO can be spared .

man attack on the church is an attack on Christ acts 9:4

amigo de christo · Aug 1, 2021

theefaith said:
man attack on the church is an attack on Christ acts 9:4

The RCC aint the church .

theefaith · Aug 1, 2021

amigo de christo said:
The RCC aint the church .

how do you know?

theefaith · Aug 1, 2021

Major covenants!

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal)

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

Kingdom

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

the holy Catholic Church

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Kingdom:

Requirements:

structure: order chaos

hierarchy:

Ritual:

Mediator:

Authority:

Hierarchy or anarchy?

————

Matt 23 Jesus commands the successors of Moses to be obeyed!

Kingdom authority: (keys) vs 13
Kingdom power: (bind & loose) vs 4
Taken from Israel given to the church: Matt 21:43 to Peter, the apostles, and their successors. Matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Peter, and the apostles, and their successors sent by Christ!
Matt 28:19 Jn 13:20 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

———

Replacement theology!

———-

God always establishes order in men with the people’s obedience to hierarchical authority!

The angelic order!
The church order!
The family order!
The civil order!

All require obedience to hierarchical authority!

The church is not a democracy but a kingdom!

Joseph administered the kingdom under pharaoh while receiving obedience from His brothers!

Need for apostles

———-

Where does the Bible say you can have a reformation?
Or that you can protest or be Protestant (rebellion) against valid authority established by Jesus Christ!

The new and eternal covenant!

Christ replaces David as king! Lk 1:32-33

The new covenant replaces the mosaic covenant! Matt 21:43

The new covenant church is the new Israel!

The new covenant is based on God’s promises, sacred oath’s or sacraments!

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediatorbetween God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

quietthinker · Aug 1, 2021

amadeus said:
Perhaps even in the living room of his house?

it might even be closer than that!

Curtis · Aug 2, 2021

theefaith said:
no way! peter never went there, it was a code word for rome! The pagan Roman Empire was mystery babylon

So those who say Rome is the whore of Babylon that gets destroyed, are right after all?

Hmmm... interesting.

Maranatha

Curtis · Aug 2, 2021

theefaith said:
God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Nice theory - except Hebrews states that Jesus Himself is mediating the new covenant from heaven.

Heb 8:6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

BTW the word CHURCH, kuriakos, is not found in Matthew 16 - ekklesia is used, which means the congregation- the audience - and not the hierarchical structure you want to claim it is, of pope, cardinals, bishops, priests, etc.

And in the Greek in Matthew 16:18 - which is what the NT was originally written in - has two different rocks in that passage: Jesus said, thou art PETROS - small rock - masculine gender - and upon this PETRA - bedrock - feminine gender - I will build my church.

Guess who the bedrock is? Hint: in Spanish it’s pronounced Hay -Zeus.

Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles (plural) and prophets (plural), Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

Eph 2:21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.

The church isn’t founded on any one apostle, per above.

Jesus in fact told the apostles when they argued who was the greatest among them, that none of them would be above the others. <—— scripture

And Peter called himself a fellow elder. <—- scripture

amadeus · Aug 2, 2021

quietthinker said:
it might even be closer than that!

Indeed!

FHII · Aug 2, 2021

The city of Babylon, which was the capital of the Babylonian Empire was nothing more than a small village in 1000 BC, and has been in ruins for quite a while. Its about 50 miles south of Baghdad today, which wasn't established until 762 AD.

There is no mention of Christian missionaries in Iraq mentioned in the Bible. However it is thought that Thomas travelled to India to spread the Gospel (thus, he had to travel through Iraq), and Thaddeus may have been in Iraq as well.

Overall, its unlikely that Peter was speaking of a Church in Iraq, much less "Babylon" since it didn't exist as a city at that point. There may have been Churches where Babylon used to exist, but its doubtful Peter was speaking of them. Rapid communication was not prevalent. On the Silk Road, it exists, but you are asking alot for a Church in Iraq to send a report to Peter when they probably didn't know where he was.

To think that Peter was speaking of Rome isn't far fetched. Rome was the Capitol of the Empire at the time. The Babylonian and Assyrian Empire held Babylon as their Capitol. The only other two great empires in history were the Egyptian and the Greek/Macedonian empires.

Egypt isn't really in comparison. Alexander never really established a capitol (but he did die in Babylon).

Overall, I believe Peter was talking about Rome.

Robert Gwin · Aug 3, 2021

theefaith said:
cannot be applied to JW’s
It’s a modern cult founded by
Charles Taze Russell
Origin 1870s Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S.
Not founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
Not universal

There is one faith today that are His witnesses just as sure as the people Isa 43:10 was, that is the simple truth. The Bible identifies that faith clearly beyond any reasonable doubt. Does your faith worship Jehovah exclusively Faith?

theefaith · Aug 3, 2021

Curtis said:
So those who say Rome is the whore of Babylon that gets destroyed, are right after all?

Hmmm... interesting.

Maranatha

Yes but the pagan Roman Empire conquered in one hour by Christ in the conversion of Constantine

theefaith · Aug 3, 2021

Curtis said:
Nice theory - except Hebrews states that Jesus Himself is mediating the new covenant from heaven.

Heb 8:6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

BTW the word CHURCH, kuriakos, is not found in Matthew 16 - ekklesia is used, which means the congregation- the audience - and not the hierarchical structure you want to claim it is, of pope, cardinals, bishops, priests, etc.

And in the Greek in Matthew 16:18 - which is what the NT was originally written in - has two different rocks in that passage: Jesus said, thou art PETROS - small rock - masculine gender - and upon this PETRA - bedrock - feminine gender - I will build my church.

Guess who the bedrock is? Hint: in Spanish it’s pronounced Hay -Zeus.

Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

Eph 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles (plural) and prophets (plural), Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

Eph 2:21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.

The church isn’t founded on any one apostle, per above.

Jesus in fact told the apostles when they argued who was the greatest among them, that none of them would be above the others. <—— scripture

And Peter called himself a fellow elder. <—- scripture

vicar of christ

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

theefaith · Aug 3, 2021

Acts 1:15 who stood up and acted as head of the church on earth?

theefaith · Aug 3, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
There is one faith today that are His witnesses just as sure as the people Isa 43:10 was, that is the simple truth. The Bible identifies that faith clearly beyond any reasonable doubt. Does your faith worship Jehovah exclusively Faith?

the church is universal all times and all people are able to partake

Major covenants!

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal)

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

Kingdom

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

the holy Catholic Church

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Robert Gwin · Aug 4, 2021

theefaith said:
the church is universal all times and all people are able to partake

Major covenants!

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal)

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

Kingdom

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

the holy Catholic Church

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Yes, the one faith of God's people are made up of all tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations Rev 5:9. I am puzzled however why you didn't answer my question. Perhaps you overlooked it, does your faith worship Jehovah exclusively?

theefaith · Aug 4, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
Yes, the one faith of God's people are made up of all tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations Rev 5:9. I am puzzled however why you didn't answer my question. Perhaps you overlooked it, does your faith worship Jehovah exclusively?

no! The most holy trinity!

Where was the church at Babylon?

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